Author Topic: FE Intake Adapter  (Read 327093 times)

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babybolt

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #330 on: September 27, 2013, 08:26:57 PM »
The weights are to counteract buoyancy, just as if you had poured water in the molds - to keep the molds from deflecting upwards.

Foundry; hotter than hell in the summer, dirty, stinky, really heavy stuff to move, machines that can crush your hands, hot metal that splashes, cutting off the flash and risers with a big bandsaw, grinding and sanding off the flash, shot peening or tumbling the part in a big noisy machine, part art, part intuition, part experience to get the castings to come out right.  Its a lot of fun - to watch.

NewFalconOwner

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #331 on: September 28, 2013, 10:47:07 AM »
very cool to see how they are done.

KMcCullah

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #332 on: October 09, 2013, 07:52:12 PM »
Hey Jay, I'm wondering when your going to dyno test your adapter on your 445 or 492? I'm interested in the Yates and the Glidden Victor. Curiosity is killing me!  :)
Kevin McCullah


jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #333 on: October 09, 2013, 08:06:54 PM »
Its going to be probably January or February before I get to that.  The 492" engine is what I'm planning to do most of the dyno testing on, and I'm hoping to make it 700 HP capable for the tests, to really wring out the adapter with a bunch of different intakes.  Right now I'm just getting going on freshening up the engine; I want to put a hone on it and install new rings and bearings, and then Joe Craine is going to do some headwork for me, to try to get 330 cfm out of the intake ports with the factory medium riser port size.  That way the testing will show the adapter just as it's machined.

Looking forward to more intake manifold changes  ;D ;D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

lovehamr

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #334 on: October 10, 2013, 11:55:29 PM »
At least those will be A LOT easier! :D

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #335 on: October 13, 2013, 07:16:55 PM »
While waiting for the manifold castings to be finished up I've been working on a couple of different variations of this intake, for certain manifold applications.  I have one customer who has a race engine with the water lines coming out of the front of the cylinder head on each side.  He contacted me about getting a version of the intake adapter with the thermostat housing machined off, to give him more room at the front of the manifold. 

This was something I'd already been thinking about, in preparation for the dyno testing I'm planning on doing on the adapter over the winter.  There are a whole bunch of 351C intakes that I could test, and I'm sure not going to be buying one of every type, so I'm hoping to be able to borrow the manifolds for testing from various people.  I've already gotten some offers on that, which is great.  The problem is, to make the 351C intakes work on my adapter, they have to be machined to fit.  However, if I cut the water jacket off the front of the manifold, welded up the holes, and then ran some AN fittings out of the front of the intake adapter casting to get the water out of the engine, then the 351C manifolds would fit without interference, and I could test them on the dyno without modifying them at all. 

I also have in my possession at the moment a CHI 3V intake for the 351C.  This intake is designed for use with the CHI cylinder heads, which are known to be really good units; I believe they won an Engine Masters contest at least once a few years back.  Dave McClain was kind enough to send me his intake so I could work on a porting program to match it up to my intake adapter, but of course with all the adapters I have here at the moment, the manifold couldn't really be fit in place because of the interference with the water jacket.  I really wanted to get going on this manifold program, because I was running late on it based on how long I told Dave I needed it.

So, with all that stuff in mind I sat down on Saturday morning this week and started working on a program to machine the water jacket off one of the intake adapters.  I had to take three or four stabs at it to really get it right, but in the end it came out pretty well.  Here's a photo of the front of the intake adapter that I machined, with the water jacket cut completely away:



I'll fit a 1/4" thick aluminum plate into each one of the water jacket holes, weld it up, punch a hole in the front of the adapter on each side and thread it for 3/8" or 1/2" pipe, and I'll be good to go on the dyno by hooking up an AN line to each side, feeding into a remote thermostat housing. 

After I got this done, I put the CHI intake in place; here's a photo:



That manifold sure LOOKS like it ought to make power LOL!  The bolt holes in this intake line right up with the 351C intake bolt pattern already machined into the adapter, so there was no issue there.  However, the CHI intake manifold ports are a lot smaller than normal 351C 4V ports.  In order to see how they would line up, I cut a gasket to fit the manifold and then laid it on the adapter and traced the openings.  Here's a photo of the openings outlined with a black Sharpie on the adapter:



This intake adapter has not had any porting work done to it; the ports are as cast.  As you can see, there are going to be some parts of the cast openings which fall outside CHI manifold's port envelope.  This isn't the end of the world; you could certainly run the manifold with those openings there, because as they approach the FE port in the head the openings will get smaller and smaller, and eventually disappear just before the port reaches the FE cylinder head.  But if you were going all out with one of these intakes you'd probably want to fill those cast port openings with epoxy, or else weld them up, to make the transition to the FE port as smooth as possible.  Just something to think about if you want to run one of these intakes.

I'll be working on the machining programs for this intake over the next few weeks; it will take a while to get this done.  I'll also have to give the adapter a special part number for use with these intakes; using this adapter with a standard 351C 4V port would result in a very large port mismatch where the manifold bolted onto the adapter.  But, it still might work OK like that; one thing I have learned with all this intake manifold testing is that sometimes the engine just doesn't care about stuff like this...

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #336 on: October 13, 2013, 08:24:55 PM »
Will the ford distributor drop in with that CHI intake in place?  Also, I have a 351C torqer intake that was used on a PSE adapter many years ago, that you can use for testing if you need it.  It had a divider welded in the plenum to separate the halves of the intake, and I always wondered if that was a help or hinderance in horsepower or torque.  I would be glad to send it to you if you're interested in testing/fitting/modifying/using it.  It is not something of importance to me, so you could experiment with it.  Joe-JDC

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #337 on: October 13, 2013, 08:34:53 PM »
It would be interesting to test the Torker with the divider, so when the time comes I'll probably take you up on that Joe.

The FE distributor does fit, barely, in front of the CHI intake.  So, I think it ought to work with any 351C intake.  But for the dyno mule I'm putting together I think I'm going to go distributorless and run individual coil packs, so I'll just block off the distributor opening anyway...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #338 on: October 13, 2013, 09:30:23 PM »
Do you expect the fit to be similar with the Edelbrock 2863 intake for Yates heads?

I'd like to use that intake on my race engine if the adapter works out.  I can purchase it ahead of time and send it to you if that helps the development.

Thanks for all your great work on this project!
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #339 on: October 13, 2013, 09:54:36 PM »
I think the fit will be better with an Edelbrock 2863 or 2865, because the ports are more square, rather than oval like the CHI ports.  I have a 2865 here and that is the next one I'm going to be working on.  That one looks like the ports will be pretty close, but the 2865 manifold itself may require a little more machining.  For some reason the flange is really thick on that one (0.800"), and I'm thinking I may have to machine the flanges back to 1/2" or so to get it to fit.  But we'll see when I get into it a little more.

I don't know all the details of the differences between the 2863 and 2865; the 2863 might be an easier fit.  David, I have you on my list as #31.  When I start getting close to delivering your intake, maybe after I've delivered 20 or so,  it would be a good idea for you to send me the 2863 intake, so I could make any adjustments to the program so it fits properly - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #340 on: October 13, 2013, 10:11:32 PM »
Looking at posted pics of the two intakes, they look very similar, but the mounting bolt locations seem to be at different angles on some of the locations.  I'm open to either the 2865 or 2863, the 2865 info states that the ports are 4.0 square inches, where the 2863 is 3.2 square inches.  How does the port area on these manifolds compare to MR size intake ports?  If the gaskets are 2.1x1.4, that comes up just shy of 3 square inches.  Would the smaller manifold port, though still bigger than the head port, provide better velocity?

Further research....looks like the SC-1 head has the intake port (and exhaust) raised 0.400 over the C3 head.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 10:18:28 PM by JamesonRacing »
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #341 on: October 13, 2013, 10:33:32 PM »
That's interesting, my 2865 intake doesn't have anywhere near that much port area.  The ports measure 1.25" X 1.7".  It looks like they could easily be opened up to FE size, though.  Are you sure about those port area numbers?  Four square inches is a lot of port area...

My 2991 intake, which takes a 4150 carb, has port sizes of 1.375" X 1.9".  And my intake adapter has ports just slightly smaller than MR size on the head side, to allow some port matching, at 1.300" X 2.075".

In any case, either the 2865 intake or 2991 intake, and probably the 2863, can easily be port matched to work with the adapter, once I have the machining operations for the bolt hole locations and height of the intake finalized.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #342 on: October 14, 2013, 06:27:20 AM »
Thanks Jay,

I don't know for any certainty about the port numbers, just going by the Ed catalog, so hard to tell what they're thinking.

"GLIDDEN VICTOR 351Y 4500 SERIES (5000-8500+ rpm) Designed in conjunction with noted Ford drag racer Billy Glidden for raised port aluminum C3 SVO (Yates) cylinder heads, #2863 fits 9.2" deck heights. #2865 is for 9.2" S/B Fords with Yates SC-1 heads. Victor Glidden 351-Y #2863 has 3.2 square-inch runners. #2865 has 4.0 square-inch runners and is intended for 400 cubic-inch and larger high output drag race engines. Both are perfect for all-out nitrous-assisted drag race applications. Carb mount flange and plenum are machined for 4500 Series carbs and require port matching and blending prior to use."

The odd thing to me is that neither Summit or Jegs list the 2865 as being available, only the 2863.  I found a 2865 on Amazon, but not on ebay.  Think I'll give Edelbrock a call and see what's going on.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 09:07:56 AM by JamesonRacing »
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #343 on: October 14, 2013, 09:45:00 AM »
I'll bet the port area they are talking about is at the entrance from the plenum, not the exit of the runners.  The 2865 intake will definitely need some port matching.  The 2863 intake looks like it has the same bolt hole locations as my 2991 intake.  The 2991 intake is a much better fit to my adapter, so the 2863 intake might be an easier fit than the 2865.  All these 351C intake variations can be confusing.

If you get a hold of anyone at Edelbrock, let me know what they say...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

JamesonRacing

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #344 on: October 14, 2013, 11:32:20 AM »
I talked to Ed tech this morning, they confirmed that the area mentioned is at the interface to the plenum.  The gaskets available for the Yates heads are mostly 1.95x1.35", so the intake (2863) is probably no larger than that on the port flange as delivered.  I guess that's good so any port matching to be done can be done on the intake side.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W