wich one , thermosatic or non-thermostatic oil cooler ??

[e philpott]

my last attemp to get my 1/2 fill hard-bloc engine's coolant temp under better control while street driving 

[jayb]

I vote no thermostat.  Just adds complexity, and if you need an oil cooler, the oil will warm up just fine anyway.

What are your coolant temperatures running at now, Eric?

[kevin]

would you please tell me what, (1/2 fill hard-bloc ) means, as I have no idea?
thank you.
Kevin.

[e philpott]

my block is filled with concrete up to the bottom of the water pump holes , that and cross bolt mains  strenghtens the block to hold high HP ***** but you sacrifice cooling capacity , my cooling system bone empty only holds 1.75 gallons of antifreeze wich makes it tough to keep cool ......

 Jay I'm not sure what oil temp is , extended spitirited cruising seems to work the temp up then has a hard time going down ..... just dropped 600.00 in Merzie system hoping it would do better than my electric motor belt driven edelbrock pump with OD pulley but it seems pretty much the same , Crites aluminmum radiator , seems like the oil cooler is my last hope

[GJCAT427]

You have a Crites rad, what is the number of rows in the fins? Myself I would go with the biggest number of tubes you can get in the same size core.  In my 56 F100 I have a radiator from a F750 the same yr, It is a couple of inches taller and 1/2" widwer but fits in the core support as the trucks were the same core support size. It runs at 185-190 and cools the 427 just fine. Also no shroud.

[jayb]

my block is filled with concrete up to the bottom of the water pump holes , that and cross bolt mains  strenghtens the block to hold high HP ***** but you sacrifice cooling capacity , my cooling system bone empty only holds 1.75 gallons of antifreeze wich makes it tough to keep cool ......

 Jay I'm not sure what oil temp is , extended spitirited cruising seems to work the temp up then has a hard time going down ..... just dropped 600.00 in Merzie system hoping it would do better than my electric motor belt driven edelbrock pump with OD pulley but it seems pretty much the same , Crites aluminmum radiator , seems like the oil cooler is my last hope

How about the water temperature?  Will it stay stable, or does it climb in traffic?

[e philpott]

it climbs when I run it hard through the gears ..... if I idle long enough it slowly comes down ...... cruises 180 for the most part , but throttle it hard a couple gears it hit 205 pretty quick and ever so slowly comes down if any , sometimes goes up from there  ...... never hammer it it stays 180 to 185 .... once it gets warm over 205 its hard to cool down short of stopping , been and as high as 225 ...... dual spal fans .... the 4 speed conversion helped the cooling system more than any one thing I've done ( 5K stall C6 before)

[machoneman]

Your temps seem fine to me, except when you hit 225 as that is too hot IMO.

While adding an oil cooler would help, I wonder if adding more radiator capacity would be a better move. I do know some old school Can-Am and lower class Formula race cars (think: Lola, McClaren, etc.) have auxiliary tanks (re: vertical expansion tank, but plumbed directly into the lower/upper rad hose, see sprint car link below)  to hold more water than the smallish radiators (it's more a trade-off of less air drag through non-fan equipped radiators versus capacity). Still, adding more capacity helps. Also, some street rod parts sellers offer some really neat auxiliary mini-radiators (plumbed into the front mounted radiator in narrow grilles, the unit sits under the frame) that have a separate fan as well. They look like large heater cores and have hose end size nipples and a thermostatically controlled fan switch. Can't find a link right now but.......

Here's a mini-rad w/o the fan or shroud. Some local pro street rod shops plumb these in under the pass side floorboards to retain the 'look' of a narrow shell grille in say a pre-war Ford that has already has a custom or otherwise big buck radiator.

  http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-Micro-Mini-Midget-Radiator-17-x-12-Inch-Cage-Mount-Double-Pass-w-NPT,47170.html


Also, is this an auto or stick car? If auto, a bolt-on, under frame, air-cooled tranny cooler would shed heat as well. 

[lovehamr]

I'm using a Canton oil thermostat in my Cobra and It does very well at regulating my oil temp.  I have to say that I don't have an overheating problem though.  I put it in for the flexibility of being able to cruise around on the street (where it would take forever for the oil to warm) and at the track where I actually do need an oil cooler.  In your case it sounds like you just need the edge in cooling.  Were I in your position I think I'd install the cooler without the thermostat first and if you have a problem with warming the oil you could always go back and add it.

[Qikbbstang]

Did you list you thermostat's rated temp?

            Don't have a clue how serious a "race car" it is or as the hard block sort of implies" but serious engines run dam hot oil temps and a full time cooler may well keep oil from getting hot with all the known related problems in a street car.

           Personally I'd like to know what the motors for lack of a better word "net" temp is. If you have a half-fill and the water temps getting hot, yet your missing out on what 10-15% of the coolents heat  adsorption area?,,,,,,,,,,,,,So I'd think it would cool the water itself down easier.

Brace your$elf:
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-14589-horizontal-head-mount-thermostatic-oil-filter-for-hp4-or-hp6-filter-polished.aspx

[plovett]

I think an oil cooler will definitely help keep coolant temps down.  I have a half-filled 428 and it does fine on the street.   I just drove it 30 miles in 85 degree heat and it (water temp) got up to 195 degrees at its highest.  This is with a factory type big block 3 core radiator.

My experience is this.  When I first put this engine in my '67 Cougar it ran a bit hot, so I put an oil cooler  (and a tranny cooler) on it.  I put the oil and tranny coolers in front of the radiator.  The motor still ran too hot for my liking.   So I moved the coolers under the front fenders in front of the wheels.  What a difference!  Cooling problems were gone.  I only have water and tranny temp gauges so I don't know how hot my oil is yet, but the water and tranny temps are okay, under 200 degrees even when it's hot outside.  I have driven it this way in 100 degree Kansas summers.   The coolant may get over 200 sitting at a light in the heat of summer, as I remember it from last summer.   It would cool down again as soon as I got moving again.

An oil temp gauge is getting installed soon.

My advice is to get as big an oil cooler as you can, and mount it away from the radiator.    I also like the idea of using synthetic motor oil in a filled block in case the oil temps get high.

I use an oil cooler adapter that has a pressure sensitive by-pass spring.   It's not a true thermostatic device, but you could say it's indirectly thermostatic.  When the oil is cold and the pressure is higher it by-passes the oil cooler.  As the oil gets hotter the pressure lessens and oil is diverted to the cooler.   Like  I said  I don't know my oil temps yet, but it seems to work well and it's simpler mechanically than a true thermostatic control.

paulie

[e philpott]

Paulie , how much coolant capacity do you have with your factory radiator ??..... my aluminum rad held 1.5 gallons until I installed a surge tank , now around 1.75 gals

the 4 speed conversion seems to have helped more than any single thing I've done , maybe its because the tranny cooler is gone and not in front of the rad anymore ??....


BB , I run a thermostat with the valve removed ,

[plovett]

Oh man, I wish I knew my radiator's capacity.  I want to say around 2-1/2 gallons, but I really can't say for sure.   It's the same as the factory 3 core big block radiator, if you can find out what that holds.  My car was an original 390 car and I bought a replacement radiator for it.  Sorry I don't know more.

paulie

[e philpott]

how much does it hold total ??..... my figures were for total cooling system capacity and not just radiator ,my 1.75 gallons is the total for everything

[plovett]

I don't know that either.  I don't have my Cougar at home right now or I could drain it and refill it.  I might be able to do that next week if that will help.   I have drained it and refilled it to swap cams.  I can't remember how much the total volume of coolant was though.   I think it was more than 2-1/2 gallons.    I know that's vague and not very helpful.  Sorry again. 

1.75 gallons sounds low to me for a half-fill of the block and a good sized radiator, but I'm not sure.  Let me know if you want me to measure the volume when I get my Cougar home. 

paulie