FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: jayb on May 16, 2020, 04:41:22 PM
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This is the dual four barrel cast aluminum intake that I will be offering for my cylinder heads. I just got the first two castings off the CNC machine and got the halves assembled, so I thought I would post some pictures. This manifold is similar to my 4V intake in that it splits apart for easy porting, if that is desired. This particular one is drilled for the 4150 Holley carb pattern, but drilled and tapped so that the carbs can be mounted in either direction. Carb spacing is the same as the factory Ford medium riser or tunnel port spacing, not the larger high riser spacing, so that factory carbs and oval air cleaner bases can be used as-is. As you can see the manifold also has provisions for EFI injectors, if someone wants to go that route.
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/8V1.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/8V2.jpg)
The photo below shows one half of the manifold with the O-ring cords installed:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/8V O-Ring.jpg)
And, here's a picture of how it looks on the intake adapter:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/8V on IA.jpg)
These are the three different cast aluminum intakes that will work with my heads (I also plan a billet, sheet metal style intake, but I haven 't got that designed or machined yet). That's a pretty nice line up of intakes, if I do say so myself ;D
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/FEP Intakes.jpg)
I'm really getting anxious to run the heads and these intakes on the dyno. All I really have left to do is make up a rocker arm setup that incorporates the latest changes, then build the dyno mule and the headers for the RE heads, and run. Not too much longer, I hope...
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Any pictures of heads fully assembled?
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Out of my league, but looks amazing. I like that you think of the practical aspects as well as power and beauty.
paulie
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That cross-ram looks as if it'd be just the ticket to fit under the hood of a Cobra Daytona and provide for outboard mounting of a pair of hairdryers. ;)
Where do the injectors go?
KS
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Any pictures of heads fully assembled?
Ha! I wish. The heads have been ready for almost two months, but since the end of March I've been waiting for the valvesprings I need to arrive. Covid shutdown and all that. Hopefully soon...
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That cross-ram looks as if it'd be just the ticket to fit under the hood of a Cobra Daytona and provide for outboard mounting of a pair of hairdryers. ;)
Where do the injectors go?
KS
The injectors are mounted horizontally, underneath the runners. The injectors and vacuum taps are basically hidden. I don't know if it will fit under the hood of a Cobra or Daytona Coupe, but based on my measurements it will fit under the flat hood of a Mustang or Torino or Fairlane, and probably a Galaxie too, although I haven't measured that...
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I'm mentally picturing something that looks like a header, made of aluminum tubing, on each side. With the collectors properly configured, it would be pretty simple to put a turbo on the end of each of them and have SS headers underneath to bring the exhaust gasses up to the hot side.
KS
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That's just gotta be one of the coolest line up of intake manifolds ever.
Thank you Jay, you just made my whole day better.
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That represents one hell of a lot of work and that’s prolly not even half of your time/money/pain investment.
Congratulations and thanks for advancing the platform.
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Pro Stock Jay strikes again ;)
Except the availability is far better, as is the customer service. ;D
Couple questions....
Will a factory distributor fit? Or how about an aftermarket like MSD?
Why does the casting appear so thick on the ends of the plenum, at the bottoms? Is it just a mold issue? Seems like there's a lot of weight that could be eliminated there with some careful handwork, not to mention space for the distributor, if it's close.
Ports look like they could feed some serious horsepower! It'll be interesting to see what they do on the dyno.
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Lovin the dual four.....nice work Jay
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Great to see things are coming along. I am waiting on car parts too but for the interior rather then engine. So I understand the pain of waiting. Good luck with the build and test!
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Couple questions....
Will a factory distributor fit? Or how about an aftermarket like MSD?
Why does the casting appear so thick on the ends of the plenum, at the bottoms? Is it just a mold issue? Seems like there's a lot of weight that could be eliminated there with some careful handwork, not to mention space for the distributor, if it's close.
Factory or MSD distributors will fit, at least based on the computer model. The MSD distributor is a little tight, but if it turns out to be a problem I can add a machining operation to clearance the intake a little in the distributor location.
The casting is thick especially down at the bottom as you mentioned, and a little blocky looking. There's multiple reasons for that. One reason is that I wanted to leave a lot of room for porting, in the runners and plenum, because I think with some work this intake would support 1000 HP. Another is that where the intake bolts together you have to have room for the O-ring cord, bolt holes and threaded holes for the bolts, and some 1/4" pin holes and threaded holes for locating and bolting the manifold half to the machining fixture during the last machining operation (see the O-ring cord picture in the original post for some of these items). The last reason is financial. I could have sculpted and smoothed the outside of the casting quite a bit to remove weight and streamline it a little, but then the cost of the tooling required to cast the manifold goes way up. I'm not trying to make a fortune on this project, but I'm not going to do it if it's going to cost me a bunch of money either, and in light of the fact that I've got to tool the castings for the cylinder head and three different intake manifolds, I'm trying to minimize the tooling costs.
I learned a while back that converting a cool part into one that is manufacturable at a reasonable cost is pretty hard to do. The design of the parts reflects the cost constraints that I'm working under, in order to get the parts to market and not lose my butt on them LOL!
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Wow, that looks terrific Jay! Nice ideas all around especially the ability to mount the carbs either way. Gee, its too bad Edelbrock and all of it's engineers couldn't have though of the same great idea.
Question: the overall runner length (carb top plane to the face of the port intake at the head junction to looks to be amazingly close to the 351C intakes (Weiand bottom/custom tops) run on the killer Pro Stock engines of yore. What is, roughly, that total length if you don't mind?
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It's about 8", Bob. How does that compare to the 351C manifolds you were talking about?
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It's about 8", Bob. How does that compare to the 351C manifolds you were talking about?
IIRC, it was nominally about 11", that being carb pad to runner exit. 'Course builders did add and subtract runner lengths back then at will to test various combos, literally week by week too. I'll see if I can dig out more details.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Weiand/925/1994WND/10002/-1
Jay, a stocker 351C tunnel ram Weiand is roughly 9" (see link) yet I guess a closer measurement would depend on checking the center line of the runner to the carb pad. No can do unless I had one around. Variations in custom tops is why I thought it was closer to 11".
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That looks like a pretty nice design. It appears it may even fit under the hoods of some cars. I like your ideas.
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I just measured my Cleveland tunnel ram, and Jay's adapter. Separate outside length on the Cleveland is 8", and inside of port is 8 1/2", and with the adapter it is 10", and 10 1/2"s total(outside of port-inside of port). It would be interesting to see a pair of the Survival CNC heads with Jay's adapter and Cleveland tunnel ram in comparison on the same shortblock. Joe-JDC
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Joe, I actually plan to dyno a couple different sets of heads here, along with my own, for comparison purposes. One of the sets of heads is the Edelbrocks that you ported for me a while back, and that made 725 HP with the intake adapter and Cleveland tunnel ram on my dyno mule. Also have a pair of CNC ported Blue Thunder MR heads to try out. I can hardly wait to get going with this LOL!
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I just measured my Cleveland tunnel ram, and Jay's adapter. Separate outside length on the Cleveland is 8", and inside of port is 8 1/2", and with the adapter it is 10", and 10 1/2"s total(outside of port-inside of port). It would be interesting to see a pair of the Survival CNC heads with Jay's adapter and Cleveland tunnel ram in comparison on the same shortblock. Joe-JDC
Thanks Joe and that's why I posted above about the 351C tunnel ram: the 'test' you mentioned would be great.
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That cross-ram looks as if it'd be just the ticket to fit under the hood of a Cobra Daytona and provide for outboard mounting of a pair of hairdryers. ;)
Where do the injectors go?
KS
The injectors are mounted horizontally, underneath the runners. The injectors and vacuum taps are basically hidden. I don't know if it will fit under the hood of a Cobra or Daytona Coupe, but based on my measurements it will fit under the flat hood of a Mustang or Torino or Fairlane, and probably a Galaxie too, although I haven't measured that...
What diameter butterflies fit in the cross-ram runners? Are the vacuum taps you refer to large enough to function as balance tubes? (My own experience of a set of side-draft DCOE Webers used a hole in the casting front to rear, about 1/4 inch diameter, that connected all four of the runners. It effectively balanced the otherwise individual air-flow and helped each cylinder to perform in parallel with the others in that bank. I don't suppose it was a perfect solution but Weber thought it to be necessary.) I'm doing some mental engineering and the answers to my questions will help me fill in some 'holes'.
KS
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The butterflies are 2-3/8" in diameter. The vacuum taps are 1/8" pipe, but could be enlarged somewhat because the boss is a little bigger.
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Cool cross ram individual throttle body set up!
I certainly enjoy reading the results of these dyno test sessions. Most informative - and fun for you as well.
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Jay I can volunteer my flat hood 68 Mustang to test fit your head and cross ram intake,just to make sure everything fits of course. I will then,of course, road test the set up for the next 8-10 years,50,000 miles or so should give a good long term durability test.
I know it would be hard work but I’m willing to help out where I can.
LanceH
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Lance, it's hard to turn down such a selfless, generous offer ;D ;D Fortunately, I have my own flat hood 68 Mustang to test fit the parts on. So sorry LOL!
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Lance, it's hard to turn down such a selfless, generous offer ;D ;D Fortunately, I have my own flat hood 68 Mustang to test fit the parts on. So sorry LOL!
Just trying to help lighten your schedule a bit, besides I’m retiring next year,I’ll have some extra time.
Lance
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Looking good Jay. Can’t wait for Dyno Day.