FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on December 12, 2021, 11:47:27 AM
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are there anything you can do to improve high rpm shifting with a TL short of removing it or swapping for something different.when i wind up past 6000 my trans gets harder to shift.it makes me lose a lot of et with the slower shifts.trans is fresh,new shifter,clutch,flywheel.if i stay below 5500 its shifts great
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The transmission may not be the problem. The pressure plate releasing at high RPM may be the culprit. I have a diaphragm style that is causing the same problem - over centering I've been told with factory linkage.
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I agree, I would be looking for sufficent clutch releasing. I have had several Toploaders, never had one that i couldn`t powershift at WOT, providing the shifter was adjusted properly, and the clutch was releasing cleanly. That said, I rarely twisted any of my Toploader cars over 6500 RPM, but never had any issues at 6000, except once on my 70 R code Mach 1, when, unbeknownst to me, the Zbar started to tear at a weld, and reduced the clutch airgap. But once I fixed that, no more issues.
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my z bar has a broke weld too,but it only has a small amount of play.you can wiggle it an 1/8 inch or so.could that small amount of play cause a problem?
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Under load, it could well be opening up, reducing the airgap. I would certainly correct that issue before looking for anything else.
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Use the right weight gear lube and do not use synthetic lube. Older brass ring transmissions will not shift easily at higher RPM with synthetic.
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thanks for the info guys.i think i can put a bolt and nut thru the z bar and tighten the play out.i have a little slop in my clutch pedal too.it goes sideways a little when mashed.i have the right lube,it took a while to find but its right.
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if you habve a long style pp it may have to heavy wheights on the arms
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Don't forget the motor mounts. I put a flat head bolt threw the drivers side, so it can't lift. If the engine rises to much, it will bind the Z bar and linkage.
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it could be lifting the motor.my engine support on the drivers side has the hole drilled out bigger than normal.it might lift out the enlarged hole and sit back in it when i let off the gas.i had a chain on another engine that was in it with a small amount of slack so the engine could move a little.i may put it on and see if that helps.
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Fix the motor mount, weld and reinforce the Z bar, fix pedal slop and properly adjust the clutch linkage. You will most likely have no shifting problems.
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There are R&R kits for the pedal pivot points that utilize bearings. Not a quick and easy job on an assembled car however.
The two piece Z bar can flex if the through bolt is not tight enough. Have someone work the pedal while you watch. The whole assembly inherently has too much deflection. If anything gets worn it gets worse in a hurry.
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On my '63 F100, I had to rebuild the entire clutch pedal assembly using a set of Hurst steel bushings to 'shrink' the wallered-out holes in the pedal arm, etc, and then use Heim joints, bolts and nuts, and appropriate sized All-thread.. It finally worked just fine, but the TL took a beating before I got it all fixed.
KS
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The suggestions above should certainly be addressed first, but if you do all those things and still have a problem, try looking for a vintage set of blocker rings. IMO, the newer reproduced brass rings have a slightly different texture to the cone that doesn't play well with hard shifts at RPM. I've had the same issue with the last couple of toploaders that I refreshed/rebuilt. All the gears were new in one of them. I never used to have that problem when Ford rings were still easily found at swap meets, but now they are getting hard to find. I talked with Dan Williams about this some years ago and he was of the same opinion.
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thanks Doug,i adjusted my clutch linkage and tightened my z bar bolt.im going to give it another try today.if it dont improve i will look into a set of those older blocker rings.i have to get this thing shifting right or i wasted a bunch of money converting back to a 4 speed.c6 was great,lasted for years and i never missed 1 shift!
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Did you confirm the engine mount stability? You can tie that mother down with one of these. I believe it was originally engineered for 5.0 Mustangs but will work in our engine compartments with an FE.
Don’t give up on 3 pedals!
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are there anything you can do to improve high rpm shifting with a TL short of removing it or swapping for something different.when i wind up past 6000 my trans gets harder to shift.it makes me lose a lot of et with the slower shifts.trans is fresh,new shifter,clutch,flywheel.if i stay below 5500 its shifts great
I've experienced the same high rpm shift problem in the past. I have a David Kee aluminum case Toploader. 5 years ago when replacing some internals of the TL, I spoke with David Kee and described my high rpm shifting issue. One of his suggestions was to use 400 grit sandpaper and uniformly work the entire cone of the blocker rings. He advised holding the sandpaper wrapped against the blocker ring, and rotate the blocker ring in one direction. I did that and I feel it definitely helped.
I re-assembled the TL. I ditched the McLeod twin disc clutch, and replaced it with a Ram long-style PP and single clutch disc. The TL now shifts as well at 7,000 rpm as it does at 3,000 rpm.
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The sandpaper thing sounds like what we do with the VW transmissions only we put a small amount of valve lapping compound on the cone of the gear then turn the brass blocking ring by hand a few turns. Don't take much but sure improves the shifting
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starting in 1967 i shifted my 66/427 with gas on the floor-never lifted - some must to do i used a chain from cyl head to body rail snug/not loose--remove z- bar and added reenforced round stock to all arms welded solid -everything!! keep new tight bushings - made some steel bushings-long-style plate- with careful check of clearance - wood block on floor to be sure of clearance when pedal hits floor--had someone pull on feeler gauge between psi/plate&disk to be sure of enough release-chain over tailshaft to cross/member-polish trans rings check feel of rotation-shifted @ 6000+ all the time crane cam /alum. flywheel jardine headers/2X4s new bushings some steel under dash hurst shifter with steel bushings tight fit on everything !!!---------------- if any rings/teeth are worn or not sharp -you may stress valve springs esp. 2to3 but what fun jamming the hurst!!!
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i was going to ask if the steel shifter linkage bushings would be better than the plastic ones that come with the shifter.i know the steel would be more durable,but would they work better at high rpm shifts?
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USE STEEL BUSHINGS. A bit more noise but a much better shift.
KS
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i got out monday and tried out my shifting after adjusting the clutch arm and tightening the z-bar bolt and i was surprised.i didnt try power shifting but it was smooth at 6000,letting off just a little between changes.im going to order some steel shifter bushings and then i think it will be safe to try power shifts
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put a low chip in the msd box , just in case