FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: machoneman on December 06, 2017, 11:10:20 AM
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Ran across a pic of a Jon Kaase Boss 429 with bolt-on rocker stands. Can't seem to upload the pic but it's no big deal.
Jay in the past talked about various methods to increase the quite limited cammer rocker ratio. I wonder if this idea is still valid using some method to do so w/o a new design head as I'm sure the engine has a lot more potential with a higher lift values.
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Can't see your pictures but the original heads for the Boss 429 had bolt on rocker stands as well as the TM heads.
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Yes they did. But didn't production heads have cast-in stands? Guess I should have looked it up.
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The very first pre-production cast iron heads had cast in stands for the rocker shafts.
The production aluminum heads had bolt down stands for the shafts.
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Ah, that's the early pic I remembered seeing. Thx!
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Cammer heads have 1.3:1 rocker ratios, I believe. Getting closer to the preferred 1.7 will require moving the mounting pads and some other changes as well. Making the changes, and others, was 'on the list' with Jim Dove, but since he is now a stroke victim, It'll undoubtedly never happen.
KS
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If I remember correctly, Jay was looking into using thinner diameter rocker shafts to provide a slightly higher rocker ratio. This would allow you to relocate the pivot point without redesigning the SOHC head. Considering that he is designing his own SOHC head now, I wouldn't be surprised if this will be a feature of his SOHC heads.
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If I remember correctly, Jay was looking into using thinner diameter rocker shafts to provide a slightly higher rocker ratio. This would allow you to relocate the pivot point without redesigning the SOHC head. Considering that he is designing his own SOHC head now, I wouldn't be surprised if this will be a feature of his SOHC heads.
Yes indeed that was the old topic. Perhaps that's a primary reason, but not the sole reason, for his new head design. And after seeing his prototype straight-valve FE 3-D head, I have no doubt he'll also look at some SOHC port revisions for more flow w/o necessarily requiring a new intake. Exhaust wise, the port shape and height could change quite a bit since I do believe most Cammer owners need custom pipes anyway.
As an aside, I did post here a few years ago some pics of OEM Ford cast iron SOHC exhaust manifolds I saw in Don Garlit's FL museum in the "Engine Room". Rare indeed (had never seen any before) and they looked like the early FE HR/TP manifolds.
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As an aside, I did post here a few years ago some pics of OEM Ford cast iron SOHC exhaust manifolds I saw in Don Garlit's FL museum in the "Engine Room". Rare indeed (had never seen any before) and they looked like the early FE HR/TP manifolds.
I've seen the Ford drawings for those SOHC cast manifolds, and I believe they are closer to the '65 - up Galaxie cast long tubes. You can see on the drawings where the standard FE port flange is rubbed out and replaced with the SOHC flange, then blended into the existing primary tubes. This makes sense, since Ford did pilot build a few of those Galaxies with SOHC engines, and there was initially going to be an SOHC engine option.
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Although knowing a few fellows long ago with H-M barn sale crate SOHC's, I was shocked to see them on the display engine at Garlit's place as though I knew they existed, it was a never before seen item to me. IIRC, the crate cammers came with no exhausts at all although I've lost touch with those former buyers whom to ask.
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As an aside, I did post here a few years ago some pics of OEM Ford cast iron SOHC exhaust manifolds I saw in Don Garlit's FL museum in the "Engine Room". Rare indeed (had never seen any before) and they looked like the early FE HR/TP manifolds.
I've seen the Ford drawings for those SOHC cast manifolds, and I believe they are closer to the '65 - up Galaxie cast long tubes. You can see on the drawings where the standard FE port flange is rubbed out and replaced with the SOHC flange, then blended into the existing primary tubes. This makes sense, since Ford did pilot build a few of those Galaxies with SOHC engines, and there was initially going to be an SOHC engine option.
Decades ago I rented a video tape ( remember those? lol ) of the Garlits museum, and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the display 427 SOHC with the cast iron headers, thought it was very cool. Since then I have seen pictures of a couple more sets. Just for others who haven't seen them here are a couple pictures ( not mine ) I saved a few years ago that someone posted. I don't know anything about this set, or whether they are even "real", I also don't remember anymore if these resemble the ones at the Garlits museum.
(https://s5.postimg.org/i7twlz5br/Cammer_exhaust_manifold_right.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s5.postimg.org/yiu0ighvb/Cammer_with_exhaust_manifolds.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I think those look like Aluminium
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Those are the same design I saw but the engine was under glass, not allowing a real close look, See how thick the flange is? I assumed they were iron but if the ones depicted are identical, maybe they are of aluminum and not iron as I thought.
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In the early '60s---maybe about '62 or '63, aluminum body-panel Ponchos also came with aluminum 'header' exhaust manifolds. They didn't work very well---too much tendency to melt on the bends. Also, the cars that had them didn't have the rest of the exhaust system, the outlet flanges simply pointed down, and there was an NHRA rule that required the outlets to be away from the body and tires, but not point at the ground. There are probably VERY few of those manifolds left around.
KS
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Perhaps that's a primary reason, but not the sole reason, for his new head design.
It wouldn't be a project by Jay if he didn't work on improving the heads in other areas. Jay is going to release his own rockers soon, and unless he plans on doing two different versions maybe it won't end up in his SOHC heads. You kinda hope he does pursue it, but until Jay says one way or another we won't know for sure. :)
Some parts are cool because they are rare, but are still inferior. I'd put cast aluminum exhaust manifolds under this. Tubular headers will always be better for lower weight.
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Perhaps that's a primary reason, but not the sole reason, for his new head design.
It wouldn't be a project by Jay if he didn't work on improving the heads in other areas. Jay is going to release his own rockers soon, and unless he plans on doing two different versions maybe it won't end up in his SOHC heads. You kinda hope he does pursue it, but until Jay says one way or another we won't know for sure. :)
Some parts are cool because they are rare, but are still inferior. I'd put cast aluminum exhaust manifolds under this. Tubular headers will always be better for lower weight.
I agree with the steel tube headers being far superior. But now I wonder if NASCAR rules at the time mandated a OEM cast part, whether aluminum as we suspect or iron. Ford must have had a damned good reason to cast said manifolds if NASCAR didn't allow steel tube headers, again at the time.
Bet these ultra-rare manifolds are as rare as the first gen SOHC heads where the spark plugs were on the exhaust side of the heads rather than the production heads we see now!
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NASCAR always required stock exhaust manifolds up until the 63 Chevy mystery engine. Smokey had a set in his garage that had a cast flange with tubing brazed on dumping into a 4 inch pipe that probably exited about just before the rear wheels. The Mopar cars started a similar setup late in the 63 season, and continued it with the hemi cars. The first Ford I remember with actual headers was not until 1966 late in the season when they were ending the NASCAR boycott. Bud Moore for sure had tube headers but they may have been constructed with a cast flange at first. The rules seemed to have finally evolved to tubing headers with a flat steel flange in 1967. At best as I remember.
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I think those look like Aluminium
Those are Butch Englebright's and they are aluminium, he will make them for you out of cast iron or aluminium they looked great. Leny Mason