Noisy lifters at hot idle

[Hotwrench]

 This is the 390 in my 65 T Bird. After the engine comes up to operating temp , the lifters sound like a set of solids. The cam and lifters are Elgin int 214/exh 224 @.050 /.510 int/.536 exh lift
lobe ctr int 107 / exh 117. I am using the matching Elgin valve springs. I have tried swaping pushrods lengths and installed adjustable rockers -- NO Change in sound. When the engine is idleing you cannot force a feelers gauge between the valve stem and rocker arm. Water temp varies between 175-195 degrees, oil pressure at idle hot is 20-25psi at anything above an idle 55-60psi. This is with a Wix filter and 15w40 mobil Delvac. The engine has about 3000 miles since being built. I would like a quieter idle -- so Jay what do you think is going on here-- did I get a set of Hi Rev quick bleed down lifters or . When I ordered the kit I specified std Hyd lifters nothing special. What are my options?

[jayb]

Your post says the lifters are noisy at idle; how about when you rev up the engine?  Does the noise disappear with increasing RPM?  Do you hear it when the car is going down the road?

I think you may be bleeding off a substantial amount of oil pressure between the filter adapter, where the oil pressure reading is taken, and the lifter oil passages.  You could  test this by changing to a really thick oil and seeing if the situation improves.  Throw some straight 40 weight Valvoline racing oil in there and see if the problem improves any.  If it does then it is likely bleeding off too much oil pressure before the lifters.

This could be caused by any number of things, like excessive bearing clearance (main, rod, or cam), a crack in the block oil passage from one of the main bearings to the cam bearings, excessive rocker to rocker shaft clearance, etc.  By the way, are you sure its the lifters that are making the noise?  Rockers can make a similar noise, and so, believe it or not, can a mechanical fuel pump if the return spring is broken.  I've been fooled by that one before...

[Hotwrench]

 Jay thanks for the comback I have tried 3 different complete sets of rocker arms ,2 hydraulic non adj, 1 set of adj---- no change. As far as oil weights I've tried 15/40--- 40 wt -- 50 wt -- 20/50 castrol no change. As soon as you bring up the RPMS the noise goes away , any engine speed above 2000 the motor is quiet and smooth. I have tried 2 different oil pumps a stock and a hi voluume no change. I have tried different oil filters no change. Everybody that has listened to it says it sounds like a factory solid lifter motor. It sounds like my old 406 at idle. Also it has broken a rocker shaft on both sides at the rear of the engine, I changed to heavy shafts and end stands, also oil is restricted to the rockers with #60 jets.
                      Thanks---- John Ferguson

[jayb]

Wow, sounds like you've tried most of the things that I can think of.  Have you got a mechanic's stethoscope?  If not, use a long screwdriver, put the blade on the fuel pump and listen at the handle, and see if the noise appears really loud at that point.  Then check away from the fuel pump, at the block or intake or something.  This isn't likely to be the problem, but at least you can rule it out.

Do you know the history of the block?  Is it possible that someone else restricted the oil passages to the lifters before you got it? 

[machoneman]

When you swapped in the new oil pumps (HD or Std) did the hot idle oil pressure change? From your reply, it appears not to have changed. If so, I'd suspect as Jay mentioned internal oil leaks (from a variety of sources) that are bleeding off oil before it hits the lifters. The 20-25 psi hot idle is pretty low for a new build and a new pump, if that was the issue, should have raised your psi at both  ends of the scale.

As for options, one way to eliminate the lifter variable is to pop the intake and replace them. Kinda' iffy using new lifters on a broken in cam but it's been done before. I'd also make sure you get a good quality Johnson lifter (see link, others also sell them) as it is possible the supplied lifters were cheapies.

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/lifters-427feshell.html

But, it seems a better track would be to yank the engine and tear it down for a full inspection of all clearances and a check for any cracks in the cam tunnel-to-main bearing saddle areas.
  

[Hotwrench]

Thanks for the replys, with a stock pump at normal temps 180-190 at idle 20-25 psi at 600 RPMs -same temp @2000 RPMs 40-45 psi . With high volume pump at 600 RPM-180* 20-25psi @2000RPMS 55-60psi. With heavier oils add + 5-7 psi . With Hi Vol pump any RPMs over 3000 +10psi. Removed fuel pump -- no change in noise. As far as the history of the block , it started life as a 360 pickup unit-- was rebuilt then purchased from origional owner. I pulled it apart and replaced crank and rods with 390 pieces ,used the 360 pistons, rod and main clearances are at .002 and new cam brgs were installed. Engine runs great and pulls the T Bird around easily. Also running D2ae-a heads ,Holley street dominator@600 Holley vac sec.
           Have A Great Day ----- Hotwrench