FE Power Cylinder Heads

[cammerfe]

Cut shock towers decreases value?
I would think that if it’s done well it’s be desired.
Kinda like I view front discs and a dual master cylinder to be an upgrade on my Galaxie, certainly not a negative.

(This was a question, I do t own a shock tower car, so curious)

It's because the people who pay the big bucks for the cars typically want them in "as built" condition. So unless it's a highly modified touring car, with top notch workmanship and parts, it'll always be worth more when they're built as 100% original, or at least 'as it came from the factory'. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is

Brother Lon's '67 Mustang was quite plain jane for a 390 car. We put a 427 TP in it when it was less than a year old, and re-worked it rather thoroughly over the years. We ultimately put a set of Dove TP heads on a 452 inch engine. The exhaust runners pointed UP at about a 45-50 degree angle and required custom headers. We removed the towers and moved everything necessary to give un-impeded exhaust flow. The ultimate combination used a pair of EFI throttle-bodies on a LeMans dual-plane intake manifold. He ultimately sold the car to a guy in New Zealand. I'm not under the impression that the price suffered at all because of the modifications. Just sayin'.

KS

There's a big difference between a '67 P code, and a '69/'70 R code. Same as if it were a true '68 1/2 CJ; if it were modified, it's gonna affect the value. Putting a Dove headed, fuel injected 427 TP in a P code car would likely offset any lost value compared to a hum-drum 390. Not a valid comparison to the highly sought after Cobra Jet cars.

Although I don't know the particulars, I'm under the impression that the car, as sold, went for far more than enough to 'offset' any lost value. Some of that would, of course, be because it was featured in a number of the magazines I wrote for, and appeared on the cover of Super Ford Magazine during the time we were working on the fuel Injection. I wrote a half-dozen or more articles for SFM alone while we were doing one-or-another of the modifications we made.

A very goodly share of the '68 1/2 CJ Mustangs would have been turned into race cars and, consequently 'hacked-up'. I was involved with one of the first dozen---all 'dollar' cars---and we tore into it within a couple of hours of getting it home.

KS

[fekbmax]

Man, I'm so looking forward to seeing this project finished. Cant wait to see the package deal up for sale. Heads, rockers, intake adapter and intake.
I'm guessing the heads will be offered bare or with valves and springs. Maybe for the additional charge titanium valves  will be available??..

[jayb]

For titanium valves you'd be on your own, but I would certainly be able to provide the valve dimensions you would need to order them.  I'll be offering some stainless steel Ferrea valves to go with the heads; standard FE valves will not fit these heads, of course.  I'm currently trying to decide between normal valves and hollow stem valves; there's a pretty big cost difference, and according to the valve manufacturer only a 14-15 gram weight savings.  Decisions, decisions...

[cjshaker]

A very goodly share of the '68 1/2 CJ Mustangs would have been turned into race cars and, consequently 'hacked-up'. I was involved with one of the first dozen---all 'dollar' cars---and we tore into it within a couple of hours of getting it home.

KS

And to bring the big dollars, they are restored to 'as delivered or originally raced' trim. Who the racer was, and the car in questions history has a lot to do with that.

[cjshaker]

Cant wait to see the package deal up for sale. Heads, rockers, intake adapter and intake.

I still think an FE Power T-shirt, showing the entire top end with all the available parts, would be a cool thing to see. Jay needs a silk-screening machine now..lol

[FE_4_ME]

Mr. Jay Brown,
I don't even have a dog in the FE world, but I love them as this was the first engine my father and I built(I watched a lot). It's amazing what you've accomplished in a very short time. You've taken technology and leveraged it for the FE community! Anyone wanting to build a Dream FE has many choices today.
Thanks for your hard work! 
   

[Yellow Truck]

For titanium valves you'd be on your own, but I would certainly be able to provide the valve dimensions you would need to order them.  I'll be offering some stainless steel Ferrea valves to go with the heads; standard FE valves will not fit these heads, of course.  I'm currently trying to decide between normal valves and hollow stem valves; there's a pretty big cost difference, and according to the valve manufacturer only a 14-15 gram weight savings.  Decisions, decisions...

Can't comment on the cost, but wouldn't 14 or 15 grams be significant at high rpm? Total weight is around 70 grams, no?

[jayb]

No, the valves are not light weight despite the 5/16" stem.  They are very long, over 3/4" longer than a stock valve, because the ports are so tall.  I have some test valves here that need the heads machined down to fit, and they will give an idea of weights.  The intake valves I have here weigh 154 grams, exhausts 126 grams.  The intake valve has a 2.350" head diameter, so they will lose a bit of weight when they are cut down to 2.300" or 2.250", but not that much.  Hollow stem on the intake would only save 10% of the weight, and the cost adder is 60%.  Exhaust valve head is 1.800", and will get cut down to 1.700" or less, but again not a big weight savings there.  And again a 60% premium to lose an additional 14-15 grams.

For comparison, a stock 1.65" 428CJ exhaust valve with 3/8" stem weighs 122 grams, and a stock 428CJ intake valve with a 2.09" head weighs 136 grams.  By the time the valves are cut down to fit, I'm guessing that the exhaust valve for my heads will weigh just a bit less than a stock valve, and the intake valve will weigh 10 grams more than a stock valve. 

It looks like if I order in quantity, the normal valves for my heads would be about $450 for the set, and the hollow stems would be about $700 for the set.  I'd rather go with the hollow stems, but that's a pretty big price difference.  Decisions, decisions...

[Yellow Truck]

...
It looks like if I order in quantity, the normal valves for my heads would be about $450 for the set, and the hollow stems would be about $700 for the set.  I'd rather go with the hollow stems, but that's a pretty big price difference.  Decisions, decisions...

Ok, I do tend to favour the extremes since the compromise is so boring, but if you add up what you have spent in hours and dollars to get it this far, is $250 going to move the needle to "scrap the project"?

Now I have to come up with a project that justifies this set of heads, I'll need a new block and a car to put it in. By the time I'm done I'll be $40,000 in car costs and another $100,000 in divorce lawyer bills, so what is $250? Do it right.

[jayb]

Multiply that difference by 25 to 50 sets and my conundrum will become clearer...

[plovett]

It seems to me like a lot of guys running these heads would be using solid roller cams.  They are going to be using high spring pressures anyway.  I'm not saying weight doesn't matter because of that, technically it could matter more because they will also likely be running high rpms.  I am saying these don't seem to be grocery-getter heads so I bet the end users will be making the valve train work with whatever springs they need, whatever retainers, whatever cam profiles, rockers, etc.  They aren't going to be throwing this stuff together and then complaining about valve float.

I'm not in the market for them anyway, so just my opinion.

paulie

edit:  and in the lower rpm street friendly versions that Jay alluded to, the weight won't be such a problem?

[preaction]

Jay this is one way to do a shock tower cut back the strut and hub used here has room to go more to the vertical at the top. No FE at that time though.

[CDXXVII]

Not mine:

https://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/d/charlton-cylinder-head-pressure-tester/6804655697.html

[1968Montclair]

I just geeked out reading this thread! Being able to see what goes into the casting process was great, thanks for doing that Jay! Such an awesome project, seeing the pics of of the 3D printed heads at PRI with the crossram efi setup makes me want to build a kit cobra to put one in. I can't explain why lol

[66FAIRLANE]

I always hated the idea of butchering it beyond where it could be returned. That idea bothers me less and less each passing year though 

Aint that weird. Bothers me more with every passing year.