Best starter for 68' 390 Mustang with FPA headers?

[mungus]

My OEM starter looks quite rough, definitely in need of a rebuild.

Anyway I've read a few comments here about the new style starters being a good FE upgrade.
So my first question is, do I need anything better than the OEM style starter?
If they really are that bad are the Power Master look-a-likes much better? Or do I need to buy a mini type. If possible I would prefer to keep an OEM look and wiring layout, and it looks like a like power master at least does that...

Have also seen a few mini type starters for sale at CJ's and Summit.
I like that some have a rotatable base to making fitting easier, however when I mocked up my motor to fit the headers it does look tight in there...

Found some threads for other FE cars or other headers, but what about this combination?
Will an OEM starter fit? Ir do you need to go mini?

So can anyone with experience of this set up, (Mustang 390 & FPA), recommend a good starter?
One that will definitely fit and is decent quality...
(Motor running 10:1 CR).

[fekbmax]

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/fordat_starter.html

[GJCAT427]

 RobbMc x2. Got one on my 63 427 galaxie with the cast headers. no clearance issues and starts when hot.

[mungus]

Thanks. Certainly compact!

Any other suggestions?

[JamesonRacing]

RobbMc x3.

Well, to tell the truth, I do have three of the his starters, in each of my 66 FE Fairlanes.  Can't say they've been entirely trouble free, but I do expect a lot from them and get good results.

[jayb]

I've had good luck with the Powermaster XS Torque starters, although they don't always engage all the way into the flywheel.  I like Robb Mc starters also, have two of them, but I've had to have them rebuilt a couple of times because the sprag has gone out.  Granted, though, this is on a 13:1 585" engine, so I'm pushing the envelope there.

[afret]

I have the Powermaster XS with FPA headers.  It's worked fine for years.  I just put one on the stocker which has REF headers.  The good thing about the Powermaster is that you just keep the wiring the same and just run a short jumper wire between the two terminals on the starter.  With the RobbMc, you have to switch the wiring on the solenoid and run the starter wire from the battery side of the solenoid which is always hot. 

[thatdarncat]

I run the stock Ford starter in my '67 Shelby with 428 and 12:1 compression. It's mostly a drag race car, but I did run it on Hot Rod Drag Week last year. I don't know if the Ford starter will work with the FPA headers though, I run Hooker headers. After the dragstrip passes last year I drove about 10 solid road hours every day and never had a problem with the car starting after gas station or checkpoint stops on any day. I will say I think it's key to use a good quality rebuilt starter. I'm lucky here in the Minnesota area to have a couple good local rebuilders, I would not be very confident in the starters from the big chain auto parts or big box discount stores.

[mungus]

Thanks everyone.

I like the idea of the powermaster XS, looks good, known brand and allows you to keep the stock wiring.

Stan at FPA has also recommended a mini starter from AZ, made by Proline Performance.
I've emailed them for info as their webstore is down. Waiting to see what they are like...

Stan also stated that their headers are made to fit around the OEM Ford starter, and my googling dud reveal some FE390's running FPA headers with stock looking starters.
That's what initially attracted me to the uprated OEM style 3131 starter from Powermaster.
Quick spray of black satin and most wouldn't know it wasn't concourse, but with modern insides and more grunt etc. I may do a full mock up using my stock starter soon. If they do fit well together, then perhaps that is another option.

However one recurring theme on this thread is hot starting. Having never run an FE regularly are they prone to hot starting problems? Perhaps a hi torque mini starter really is the reliable choice?

[mungus]

I've had good luck with the Powermaster XS Torque starters, although they don't always engage all the way into the flywheel.  I like Robb Mc starters also, have two of them, but I've had to have them rebuilt a couple of times because the sprag has gone out.  Granted, though, this is on a 13:1 585" engine, so I'm pushing the envelope there.

Thanks Jay, seems the XS starter gets a few votes. And I agree about the solenoid wiring issue.

[jayb]

Hot starting has definitely been an issue for me over the years.  The solution for the last ten years has been the gear reduction mini-starters.

[2VNTG68S]

I just put an XS starter in my '68 390 GT after the FPA headers cooked the original (factory) one.  Go mini for sure (my $0.02)

[mungus]

I just put an XS starter in my '68 390 GT after the FPA headers cooked the original (factory) one.  Go mini for sure (my $0.02)

Good to know as you have the same car and headers. I'm thinking I'll end up buying an XS starter.
They fit our set up, are a known brand supported by big stores, and apparently they work well.
Plus I can keep my stock wiring...

I would have liked to consider a Proline Perf AZ starter but they never sent the specs or photos as they said they would. Its a bit hard for me to make a choice in their favour with no info or images to go on! Their website being down, lack of Comms, and no info provided doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.

UPDATE: Well I just ordered a Powermaster XS Mini starter from JEGS. I feel most comfortable with that option. Seems it always fits, they reply when questioned, their website actually works, etc...
Thanks for everybody's input, appreciated.

[Qikbbstang]

Hey Jay do you have any proof of that?................................

Re: "I've had good luck with the Powermaster XS Torque starters, although they don't always engage all the way into the flywheel.  I like Robb Mc starters also, have two of them, but I've had to have them rebuilt a couple of times because the sprag has gone out.  Granted, though, this is on a 13:1 585" engine, so I'm pushing the envelope there."


            I was expecting your reply after feeling your frustration at Drag Week with the R-MC's two years ago....  Seriously about: " the Powermaster XS Torque starters not always fully engaging" ------------- can you please elaborate on that please?.........................

            I've got one ready to install.................maybe more than just grease it well and install it?

[427Fastback]

I used a stock Ford starter on the 427.I also had hot start issues with it at times.My 67 uses a powermaster.I have used by owner request Powermaster starters on everything for over 10 years now.Other than some grinding to make it fit a FE I have never had a problem...

I am up in BC Canada..Warranty issues on a Rob Mc starter doesn't work for me(I do have his fuel pump) so the 427 gets a Powermaster next time round..I think MSD makes some and I have a Summit one here for a SBF but no idea who made it......JMO

[jayb]

Hey Jay do you have any proof of that?................................

Re: "I've had good luck with the Powermaster XS Torque starters, although they don't always engage all the way into the flywheel.  I like Robb Mc starters also, have two of them, but I've had to have them rebuilt a couple of times because the sprag has gone out.  Granted, though, this is on a 13:1 585" engine, so I'm pushing the envelope there."


            I was expecting your reply after feeling your frustration at Drag Week with the R-MC's two years ago....  Seriously about: " the Powermaster XS Torque starters not always fully engaging" ------------- can you please elaborate on that please?.........................

            I've got one ready to install.................maybe more than just grease it well and install it?

Uhhh...  Any proof of what?  Please elaborate, BB.

On the Powermaster starters, if you measure from the mounting flange to the end of the gear when it comes out, and the measure on the engine from the mounting flange to the farthest point on the flywheel, you will see that the end of the starter gear does not make it all the way to the end of the flywheel.  So only 2/3 to 3/4 of the flywheel teeth are engaged by the starter gear.  I have gone to the trouble on one starter of machining the flange so that the starter moves closer to the flywheel, and then the gear does engage all the way.  But I think this is probably only necessary on a very large, high compression engine.  For yours, you could probably just install it.

[Qikbbstang]

Thanks Jay ,,,,,,,,,,,,,it's an as set up not going deep, not a random failure to go deep. Running a stick assures the starter's importance is not all that critical so I can rest this out.

  When you run a stick you almost look forward to a starter failure,  it's one place you can truly leave all the slushbox guys sitting in the parking lot bump starting her with a big smile on your face.

[fekbmax]

Anyone use the CVR starters ? Looks like a nice piece and at a buck cheaper than the Robb Mc I'm kinda leaning in that direction. I have always had good luck with the power masters that are built in the stock she'll and may stick with that since I have one still. Always a lot of mixed reviews on most all mini gear reduction type starters. Kinda like a crap shoot.

[Qikbbstang]

Re: . Always a lot of mixed reviews on most all mini gear reduction type starters. Kinda like a crap shoot.


   Don't really understand your mixed reviews on mini-starters................ reason being I've got a 351W stock in my LIGHTNING.  You learn stuff -- the stock factory FORD starter on the FoMoCo 351W LIGHTNING is a Motorcraft mini-starter...I'd think across the board Ford was using mini's in the 90s and up  -- that says to me reliability

          Here's the crazy part ---- it's the same starter as used on the 2.3 Ltr I-4 motor that's been a junior stock favorite for decades.

[fekbmax]

The mixed reviews I mentioned are only mine and speaking of my own experience.  Have had far more troubles with mini type gear reduction starters,(everything from your basic auto parts replacement to a $350 titan) than I have with a good quality (as Kevin said) stock type shell direct drive starters. Of course I'm talking 12to1 - 14to1 compression ratio range race engines. I will say I have been using locked out timing/crank trigger and use a start retard ,or back in the day spin the engine then flip the ignition .
Again, just my experience.