FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 67428GT500 on October 14, 2019, 12:58:00 AM
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I have 220 miles on the new engine. I was considering running Brad Penn. However, most of their multi-viscosity offerings are partial synthetic. I think it's a bit early to convert to a synthetic. I bought straight 40WT VR1 being I really didn't want to spend 12.00 a quart on the Penn offering. Any reason to be concerned with that choice?
-Keith
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Why would you run a straight 40 weight???
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Wasn't really my first choice. The multi grades at Summit were partially synthetic. That was even the case with Brad Penn.
I'm running a flat tappet as you're aware. Too early for semi-synthetics. 10 or 15-40 would have been my preference.
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You have a $15,000 paint job and you are worried about spending an extra $50-$60 to get the right oil? Just buy what your engine needs.
Also, I have changed to synthetic oil on the dyno, after break-in and a dozen or so dyno pulls. with no ill effects. But waiting a little longer doesn't hurt anything.
paulie
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After 250 miles of Brad Penn break in oil I use Brad Penn 10-40 and I have a solid cam. Just my opinion but after 250 miles cam is broken in and the rings have seated. If VR1 is what your wanting to use they also have good Zinc in there for your solid cam.
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I don't know your build clearances and am not an expert on that anyway, but 10W30 or 10W40 works good on 90% of builds. Ask your engine builder what to run and buy it.
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Actually, 84.00 is what 7 quarts runs plus the filter. Finding something that wasn't partially synthetic was the big issue.
VR1 had few offerings without going straight weights. 30, 40 or 50. I don't like Lucas and it was one of the few that was mineral. Yes, I have a full restored vehicle, Paulie. Paint work is not my forte. I don't take it out to the drags but it gets driven. The only offering at three chain stores in VR1 was 20/50.
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I'm the builder. The mains and rods are at .0025. I'm running a hydraulic flat tappet as well. Most performance oils at Summit that were multi weight were synthetic blends. That was my concern.
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If this were mine, I'd run the 30W Brad Penn break-in oil for another 700-800 miles and then either switch to the Brad Penn 10W-30 synthetic blend, or go ahead and switch to Valvoline VR1 10W-30 now.
I just don't like the idea of a straight 40W oil in an engine, especially with .0025" bearing clearances.
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I'd likely run the 20w50 before the straight 40.
I personally don't think a synthetic blend would hurt you one bit after the 1st oil change, but if you are concerned, maybe have the local part stores order a case of 10w40?
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Amazon has 10w30 VR1 for $5.25 a qt, rite now.
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Just a thought for you to consider. At Engine Masters, every contestant was given a full synthetic AmsOil of their choice for the competition. I had 40 dyno pulls on my engine, removed the break-in oil after just a few pulls, and went to Amsoil 10W-30 for the dyno pulls, and everything went fine with the oil. Made an additional 12 pulls at the EMC with 5W-20, and the oil still looks fresh. I am going to continue to use the same oil for more dyno pulls in a couple of weeks. Once the rings are seated, run whatever oil you prefer. I have used 10W-30 for the last 50 years, and will continue to use it in older engines, and I use 5W-20 or whatever the manufacturer recommends in my newer vehicles. If all the engines ran fine with full synthetic, and the bearings look like they have never been used, why worry about partial synthetic, or full synthetic? All new vehicles use full synthetic, and they don't need 500 miles for break-in. Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Joe-JDC
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Just a thought for you to consider. At Engine Masters, every contestant was given a full synthetic AmsOil of their choice for the competition. I had 40 dyno pulls on my engine, removed the break-in oil after just a few pulls, and went to Amsoil 10W-30 for the dyno pulls, and everything went fine with the oil. Made an additional 12 pulls at the EMC with 5W-20, and the oil still looks fresh. I am going to continue to use the same oil for more dyno pulls in a couple of weeks. Once the rings are seated, run whatever oil you prefer. I have used 10W-30 for the last 50 years, and will continue to use it in older engines, and I use 5W-20 or whatever the manufacturer recommends in my newer vehicles. If all the engines ran fine with full synthetic, and the bearings look like they have never been used, why worry about partial synthetic, or full synthetic? All new vehicles use full synthetic, and they don't need 500 miles for break-in. Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Joe-JDC
I don't think the oil that comes in your brand new car is synthetic.....I think it's mineral oil and then it gets changed to synthetic on the first oil change.
Regardless, we don't know who did the machine work on his block, or what their capabilities are. I can watch the rings seat on the dyno here but not everyone has the luxury of high level machine work, or being able to watch things on the dyno with a controlled load. I'd rather be on the safe side and recommend using break-oil a little longer because that's not gonna hurt anything at all.
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I run 10w-30 VR-1 in the dragster and door car. As I've noted before, on the new drag engines "break in" is loading against the converter a few times, then make a half-pass then it's full on after that. I run all roller now, but same with the flat tappet after the standard flat tappet run in. Moly faced rings with the proper bore finish seat nearly immediately. If I'm changing rings and there's no taper (normal) I flex-hone the bores with 320 grit and 10w-30. Buff lightly with a little scotch brite and off the the races LOL.
We've had several new Fords - all come with full syn oil in them from the get-go. I put full syn in the 93 F-350 too.
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We've had several new Fords - all come with full syn oil in them from the get-go. I put full syn in the 93 F-350 too.
Are you sure that new cars are sitting in the showroom with synthetic oil? I've heard from several sources that that's not the case, but you know about hear-say.
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My 13 Boss 302 came from the factory with a blend. Ford recommended that I use the blend oil after the first oil change. I keep the blend for the first 2500 miles and then switched to full syn.
No problems.
I don't know what Ford recommends for the new cars now as I have decided not to buy any more new cars but just drive the classics.
I have all ways used 10-30 in my older engines and never had any oil related problems.
Greg
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Synthetic oil is indeed factory-filled in several high-end vehicles. High-zoot Corvettes and all Porches come to mind. Here's a list I found on the web of Mobil-1 factory fills:
https://www.oilchangeiowacity.com/factory-filled-vehicles
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VR1 has non synthetic available too
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I run non syn vr1 20w50 in everything. Last few times I bought 12 qts you got $1 off a qt at Summit.
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I have found VR-1 10W30 non syn race oil for less than 6 dollars a qt. on line....Amazon vs. the 7.99 a qt. the local stores ask.
My mix is 2 qts. of the VR-1 20W50 with 4.5 VR-1 10W30 for summer use.
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Synthetic oil is indeed factory-filled in several high-end vehicles. High-zoot Corvettes and all Porches come to mind. Here's a list I found on the web of Mobil-1 factory fills:
https://www.oilchangeiowacity.com/factory-filled-vehicles
My 2018 S5 turbo Audi coupe came with full syn oil as well. They recommend Castrol Edge 0W-20 full syn oil. But, they do test run each engine before final vehicle assembly and I don't know if Audi drains what I suspect is dino break-in oil at that point and re-fill with syn oil.
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I won't run Castrol. However, three of my last new vehicles were Turbos and 0-40 Mobil 1 is the recommended. I use 10-40. Too hot here NE Texas for 0-40.
It holds up well, but I never use their recommended change intervals of 10,000 miles. It comes out every 3500.
As for the FE, I was a bit perplexed at the offerings on the shelves. Almost all were a blend. This change I will run the break in oil for 800 miles before going to the Penn partial synthetic 10-40 at 1000 miles.
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Factory Turbo vehicles always run Synthetic , if not the oil would Coke in the Turbo every time you shut it off hot , Synthetic can't possibly be great for seating rings even though it works for some manufactores , I'm sure the OEM's have better boring and hone equipment than most aftermarket shops , myself I'll stick with conventional in my FE
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We've had several new Fords - all come with full syn oil in them from the get-go. I put full syn in the 93 F-350 too.
Are you sure that new cars are sitting in the showroom with synthetic oil? I've heard from several sources that that's not the case, but you know about hear-say.
LOL, if they are it's a cost accounting thing I'm sure. I'll look again in the manual, but our 2017 and 2019 Escape 2.0L Ecoboost cars don't mention anything but syn.
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My local Napa that I have an account with told me to come back in November and VR1 will be on sale.
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Factory Turbo vehicles always run Synthetic , if not the oil would Coke in the Turbo every time you shut it off hot , Synthetic can't possibly be great for seating rings even though it works for some manufactores , I'm sure the OEM's have better boring and hone equipment than most aftermarket shops , myself I'll stick with conventional in my FE
I'd like to research that. I'm of the mind that an assembly line can't take the time to really nail down the tolerance on a hone job like a race shop could.
I do agree, though, that I can't see a synthetic oil being easy on break-in. I wonder if that's why a lot of manufacturers have oil consumption issues from time to time. I was always under the impression that a new car would come with some good ole mineral oil and then you swapped to synthetic on the first oil change.
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Factory Turbo vehicles always run Synthetic , if not the oil would Coke in the Turbo every time you shut it off hot , Synthetic can't possibly be great for seating rings even though it works for some manufactores , I'm sure the OEM's have better boring and hone equipment than most aftermarket shops , myself I'll stick with conventional in my FE
I'd like to research that. I'm of the mind that an assembly line can't take the time to really nail down the tolerance on a hone job like a race shop could.
I do agree, though, that I can't see a synthetic oil being easy on break-in. I wonder if that's why a lot of manufacturers have oil consumption issues from time to time. I was always under the impression that a new car would come with some good ole mineral oil and then you swapped to synthetic on the first oil change.
I think Brent that a number of at least higher end cars, as noted above, do get run-in time (not even sure I'd call it a real dyno session) for break-in and to ensure at least some minimum hp, torque, rpm levels are achieved to prevent a recall later. That run-in time may very well be mineral oil as you noted yet it may get drained for review...and the engines that 'pass' get re-filled with syn oil.
I did see a YouTube vid on a factory build of a Lamborghini V-12 and they even said that is exactly what they do during a view of an engine run-in sequence. As for other makes, I don't know.
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I do some work at a local truck manufacturing facility occasionally. The engines show up on the loading dock dry and are filled once the truck nears the end of the assembly line. They are currently all getting Delo 5w40 synthetic.
I honestly don't see the issue switching to synthetic or a blend right away. And what the marketing on the label mentions VS what is really in the bottle is 2 different things. A lot of synthetic oils marketed in the US are what the oil industry still considers a traditional oil and are group 3 severely hydro-cracked base oils. Depending on the build and machining there is good cause for a brakein oil, or at least some breakin additives, but I think this entire no synthetic in a fresh engine is the same hold-over and partially mis-information as the synthetic oil causes oil leaks. The oil leak was already there, the synthetic was just able to flow thru places the crusty dino oil wouldn't. Additionally it depends on what kind of "synthetic" you had a leak with as they don't all have the same chemical properties. For instance, the ester base oils used in engine oil have a natural tendency to swell the elastomers typically used in seals and would help seal leaks not cause them. Conversely, POA base oils can tend to shrink those same materials and you have to add swell agents to the additive package with those (also frequently added in the ad packs of high mileage oils).
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Most engines are not like our older vehicles. Almost all performance and turbo engines are ran in. Yup, it's a dyno. Like Brent mentioned. They seat the rings and heat cycle them.
The two manufacturers I saw, one being BMW are ran in on mineral oil. It's dumped post run in and synthetic replaces it. Most modern engines are roller valve trains so your break in is more or less limited to rings. Turbos don't really coke like they used to because of the newer bearing design and the fact the housings are water cooled.
I had that issue with the 1984 Toyota turbo truck I ordered new. HKS and Garret used it to prototype the intercooler, adjustable wastegate, performance computer and exhaust.
I brought a 2014 SAAB 9-3 Griffin convertible home from Sweden. 366 horsepower variant. It actually continues to circulates water though the engine post shut down. The V6 Cadillac engine is shoe-horned into them and suffers like our big block shock tower cars do. They are actually in tighter.
I just bought a new Lincoln MKC last week. It's the ecoboost and it does recommend 5w30 Ford synthetic. I won't be using Ford oil. Mobil one, like the other turbos.