Cooling temperatures

[My427stang]

I like to see a cooling system that can run at thermostat temp, then use a temp that ensures water is burned off on the street. 

Ross, based on my experience water starts burning off long before the thermostat opens.  You can see it with my clear valve covers; they are milky white on start up from water condensation in the engine, but by the time the temp gauge starts moving they have nearly cleared completely.  I've never seen that condensation present when the engine is up to temp, and that's with a 160 degree thermostat.  The condensation will burn off regardless of what thermostat is used, unless the engine is only fired for a very short time.  Burning off condensation is not a consideration when selecting a thermostat.

Fluid temps are fluid temps and the number on the thermostat means little to me.  Like I said above, I like to see a stable temp and enough to burn off water.  If the oil gets to 220 or so, barring a significant vacuum on it that may allow lower, all is good.  If it doesn't not a panic, but not great over time

I don't see any water on my FEs, ever, and can be pretty humid here at times, and I'd see it on a PCV that I run on all of mine.  How significant and repeated are you seeing it?  Maybe the vapor isn't really leaving and that's why you see it.  I guess the last question is does it run that cool or is that the number on the stat and you are getting warmer, if so, hard to say water temp doesn't matter.  Very few of us, other than in trucks, have a cooling system that can shed to run 160 under load

The only time I water on diesels is winter, short trips, where it barely reaches operating temp and it has a more extreme cooling system. 

That being said, small changes in temps do make significant dimensional changes, even cold parts and micrometers will look very different.  I really see no reason to try to keep it at 160, and if I did, I might even be inclined to build it a little looser if it ran hard at that temp, like a boat

[Stangman]

It says only 215 bucks are you sure thats the radiator. The size is right but thats the one that cools the 1000 horsepower beast. If so that very reasonable. I paid 500 for my radiator 10 years ago.
Do you think that summit radiator will cool 600 horse in a shock tower car. What actually makes a radiator handle 400 or 1000 horsepower, I know tube and fine size but how can it be so different.
Should I e saving for a name brand, or are you paying for the name.

[jayb]

That is the correct radiator.  Used to be under $200.  The fans are at least as important as the radiator, maybe more.  That will cool a 600 HP engine with no trouble, provided the good Spal fans are used.

[Stangman]

Thank you Jay.

[mbrunson427]

This is the fan setup I have installed on the Cougar and also on the race car. I'm going to buy one of a slightly different size for the '62 Galaxie when the time comes. They sell it with or without the relays. The race car one I ordered without relays and we did our own wiring. They move a ton of air, real nice quality.

http://www.maradynehp.com/mach-series.html#mach-two

Found it on Amazon:
amazon.com/Maradyne-MM22K-Mach-225W-Puller/dp/B002Q389V6

[Falcon67]

I use the same radiator that Jay is using.  It has a set of Camaro LT1 fans mounted on it - they fit perfectly and replacement motors are available because they are an OEM item.



I can tell you that with a 500 HP iron headed 351C on the street, the best temp control was had using a 195F thermostat.  I believe I had the fans triggered one at 190F, off at 180.  This setup controlled temp including in summer here, where the asphalt will be 130~150F in the afternoon.  And, on the track where we have seen starting line temps of 160F.  The current setup is set for 180 on, 170 off but I currently use just the manual override with the control disconnected.  I don't run the fans going down the track.

Another Note: 

Note the flaps on the upper left/lower right (Got to fix that missing flap LOL).  Those flaps are there to bypass air when the car is moving.  Most of the aftermarket setups do not have this.  I mention this because at a certain speed (unknown, but easily before highway speed) electric fans become more cardboard disk than fan.  In other words - they become a blockage to air passing through the radiator.  Hence the OEM fan support using bleed off ports.  That Maradyne fan unit seems to have those.  "Take care to notice that the assembly has a top and bottom orientation where the air vent doors hang down." 

[Stangman]

So Falcon 67 I would assume your frame is notched both sides. How far out does the fans stick out looks alittle far but I bet they move some air though.

I will research those fans mike. They look good, CFM wise also.

[Falcon67]

In a Fairlane chassis, not required.  Falcon/Fairlane same engine compartment.  The combo sits right on the forward strut rod braces and top is just about level with the radiator support.  Note that for ease of service, the top of the rad support has been removed (easier engine extraction).  Also, the core support "window" has been opened up to accommodate the larger core area.

If I were to drop that in the (gone now) 70 Mustang, yes - have to notch or ? the frame because it's too wide for the Mustang nose.  IIRC only a 26" wide generic 2 core aluminum will fit between the frame rails on a Mustang. 

[Stangman]

Wow didn’t realize the falcon was as wide. Definetly going to save up for this.

[jayb]

You have to be careful when relying on electric fan cfm numbers.  A lot of them are given in free air, and that is not how the fan works; there is a pressure drop when the fan is placed up against the radiator.  There are many fans out there that have an extreme loss of airflow when installed, as compared to the free air rating.  The OEMs know this, so all the OEM fans are very good in terms of still flowing a lot of air in the installation.  The aftermarket fans, not so much, and in fact Spal is the only one that I've seen that will actually rate their fans at different pressure drops.  They are more expensive than the cheaper fans, and for good reason.

[Stangman]

Jay do you use a shroud assembly our do you mount them to the radiator with those zip tie things. I wound like to get 2 13 inch fans but I dont know if they would fit or did you make a shroud for it. What size fans are on it. I thought about putting a 16 and a 10 even. And yes I heard that about the Spal fans. Oh and to let everyone know I called Spal for a 170 degree fan temp sensor and they told me to call American Volt company and I got it from them but they have a bunch of other stuff including Spal fans and they are like 30 percent cheaper than buying from somewher else. Jay a picture of your setup would be cool. No rush I cant get it for a few weks but would like to get everything together so I know

[mbrunson427]

The aftermarket fans, not so much, and in fact Spal is the only one that I've seen that will actually rate their fans at different pressure drops.  They are more expensive than the cheaper fans, and for good reason.

Jay, if you follow my link above to the Maradyne fans and scroll through the product pages, they do this as well.

[jayb]

Thanks Mike, good to know that they've tested their product at the different pressure drops.

As far as a shroud, I don't usually have room for them so I just mount the fans to the radiator with those tie wrap things.  I try to fill up as much area of the radiator as I can with the fans, so I buy the biggest fans that will fit within the constraints of the radiator, water pump, and other front engine components.  I always prefer pullers, but in the case of my supercharged FE I've had to use one pusher and one puller.  Has seemed to work fine for me...

[Falcon67]

Jay do you use a shroud assembly our do you mount them to the radiator with those zip tie things. I wound like to get 2 13 inch fans but I dont know if they would fit or did you make a shroud for it. What size fans are on it. I thought about putting a 16 and a 10 even. And yes I heard that about the Spal fans. Oh and to let everyone know I called Spal for a 170 degree fan temp sensor and they told me to call American Volt company and I got it from them but they have a bunch of other stuff including Spal fans and they are like 30 percent cheaper than buying from somewher else. Jay a picture of your setup would be cool. No rush I cant get it for a few weks but would like to get everything together so I know

I can state that the 70 Mustang with two 13" fans individually mounted to a 26x19 aluminum 2 pass was barely sufficient for drags trip use with a 460 HP 351C. 


Track cooling performance improved when I built a shroud to mount the fans, about a 1" deep item formed from .030 aluminum.  Note that this was still insufficient for any type of street use, primarily because the cheap eBay fans simply did not move enough air for the job IMHO.  But it was a race car, so street use was not a design criteria.



Note 19" tall unit vs the radiator support

[GerryP]

The best values and performance are in the factory fans.  A popular fan was the Continental MkVIII fan.  Nice, big and powerful.  But it takes up some depth and you might not have room for one big fan and have a lot of radiator width to cover.  In that case, the Ford Contour fan was popular since it it a two fan setup and has some space in the center.  You can go to Rockauto and just browse the inventory for something that might fit your setup.  The Mk8 fan is no longer available new, but others are.  You have to know how the fans are powered.  A two pin single fan is the least desirable since it is a single speed fan and has the least flexibility.  A three pin fan has a high and low speed.  The twin fan setups stage the fans.  These fans can be driven by the factory style controllers so a lot of the puzzle is already solved.