FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: chris401 on October 04, 2015, 03:40:15 PM
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Will a 390 flywheel and pilot bearing fit a 430?
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Our resident MEL expert Royce B. is possibly deep in Engine Masters prep right now. I have little first hand knowledge, my info is from the Ford / Mercury parts books. I know the MEL and FE share the same flexplate reinforcing ring so the bolt pattern is the same. I don't have any parts books from before 1960 when manual transmissions were more common, very few Merc or Lincoln MEL's with a stick after 1960. I did find one instance where it looked like they shared a flywheel but I won't say that with certainty. I couldn't find any info on a MEL pilot bushing. I also don't know if there may have been any early / late MEL running changes in the dimensions like there was with the 429/460. Sorry, best I can do.
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Thanks for that info. I found one with the FE bell housing pattern. A pilot bushing can be made locally if different. Thanks again for digging out your books.
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Yes an FE flywheel has the same crank flange bolt pattern as the MEL..and AFAK the pilot bushing is the same.. On my 58 Mercury 430 Super Marauder with 3 speed, the flywheel is drilled for a B&B clutch rather than the long style but the dia and ring gear is the same as FE. A little later on in MEL production they changed the bellhousing bolt pattern and the location of the starter. but an FE flywheel will fit all MELs
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I have been looking for a while and found one cheep enough, just need to move some FE parts to get it.
I found a link where Hawkrod posted some bell housing photots. He had a 462 that had the two latter bolt pattern cast into the block.
I'll post some photos when I get it home.
Thanks
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I forgot the photos. Tore the top off and found what looked like muriatic acid in the cylinders. Slid right into my derelict 65 F-100. As far as mating to the frame it's a bolt in using the 63/64 390/427 engine mounts. Pictued are FE and MEL in 65 F Series trucks. Compare the MEL width and height with the FE. The FE carb is 2 1/4" off the Edelbrock intake while the MEL carb is directly on the intake.
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0229.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0229.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0230.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0230.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0227.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0227.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0173.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0173.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0174.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0174.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0226.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0226.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0168.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0168.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0171.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0171.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0172.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0172.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0170.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0170.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0228.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0228.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0169.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/1959%20Lincoln%20430%20MEL/KIMG0169.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1201.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1201.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1200.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1200.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1151.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1151.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1202.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1202.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1205.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1205.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1203.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1203.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1204.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/65%20Fleet%20Bed/KIMG1204.jpg.html)
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Are you sure that isn't a 1959 430? I have a few 58 Mercs and they all came with Autolite carbs. The Carter I think came on the 59 or 60. The engine mounts on a 58 are right near the front of the block. Yours looks pretty far forward, but not quite sure if they are in the same place as the 58. bummer about the water. A 383 I got from a friend looked that way. Had water in it for 20 or more years.
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Are you sure that isn't a 1959 430? I have a few 58 Mercs and they all came with Autolite carbs. The Carter I think came on the 59 or 60. The engine mounts on a 58 are right near the front of the block. Yours looks pretty far forward, but not quite sure if they are in the same place as the 58. bummer about the water. A 383 I got from a friend looked that way. Had water in it for 20 or more years.
Yes it is a 59, I changed the title. From the 58, 59, 60, & 62 MELs I have seen in person they all have a two bolt motor mount in the same area as the FE as well as the normal Lincoln front mounts. The carb is a 69 Motorcraft, I sold the Carter that came with the engine.
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Back when I bought my 58 Parklane, there was an incomplete engine which was the original to the car. Then a complete engine that looks like they were getting it ready to put in the car. It never went in because the mounting was different. I will have to take anothe rlook at them to see how they differ. I thought the later blocks didn't have the front mount locations.
I didn't pay attention to the carb in the pics of the engine in the trucks bay. I see the motorcraft now.
Are you still planning to run the MEL after finding the water damage? I mean, are you going to rebuild it or find another MEL to put in the truck?
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The MEL's two bolt engine mount is the same pattern as the first FE pattern. From the bell housing to the mount location it is within 1/16" center to center of the 65-76 pickup FE engine mount location.
What you see in the picture is diesel I poured in before I pulled the heads. I assumed muratic acid due to how the piston seemed to boil. I have not torn down any water damaged engine yet where I scooped out the piston in my hand like that.
As for engine use, who knows. It was going into my F-250 till I saw the head damage. I put it back together and stuck it in the F-100. I know where 4 more Mels are. I will see what happens.
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Back when I bought my 58 Parklane, there was an incomplete engine which was the original to the car. Then a complete engine that looks like they were getting it ready to put in the car. It never went in because the mounting was different. I will have to take anothe rlook at them to see how they differ. I thought the later blocks didn't have the front mount locations.
I always thought that the FE pattern was 58-60 to accommodate the Thunderbird's. However when I went to look at three Lincolns and a couple of spare engines I saw a 62 2 barrel MEL that had an early mount bolted to the middle. I looked at it the best I could. All I could get to was the C2 intake and see where the ear was missing for the 1961+ dropped starter location.
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Luckily, I have a 58 and a later MEL side by side. Looks like the later block can be moved back, but the earlier block can't be moved forward.
Here is the 58:
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/FirstEliminator/IMG_1333_zpsq8fzsvuw.jpg) (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/FirstEliminator/media/IMG_1333_zpsq8fzsvuw.jpg.html)
Later MEL:
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/FirstEliminator/IMG_1332_zpsqkkblebm.jpg) (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/FirstEliminator/media/IMG_1332_zpsqkkblebm.jpg.html)
Mark
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Either early 58's or all 58's only have one non engine mount boss by the core plug.