Disease please, I'll take two.

[turbohunter]

I hear you Doug.
It’s going to be interesting/fun to tune this deal and run it on computer.
I think where I will end up is that carbs and computers both have they’re place.
I’m not meaning to throw shade at the computer, it’s just my learning curve is huge but I have to say I’m enjoying myself because I have the time to be cautious and learn.
My comment that carbs are easy is just because I’m familiar with them. I’m not familiar with running on computers but I’m getting there. I have to say I’ve had my carb issues in the past also.

[mbrunson427]

You guys have done an outstanding job.....of convincing me to stick with carburetors..lol

See I'm the opposite! Marc's project has made my brain start churning about finally building this Kenne Bell blower motor I've been dreaming about for 5 years. After my '62 is complete and out of my workshop, I think my next project will be an engine only, no vehicle. A dyno queen project.

[cjshaker]

Experience tells me that, if you ever have computer problems with your setup, find the nearest 10 year old and they will likely figure it out...lol

I'm just one of those types who's unduly paranoid about having a breakdown and having to leave my car someplace. So simplicity rules in my book. I like all the advantages of fuel injection and admire the guys who go that route, but not being able to diagnose and fix something on the side of the road keeps me from wanting to go that route myself. I do love projects like yours though.

[jayb]

I was just thinking about this yesterday.  Hot day in the Minneapolis area, about 90 degrees and humid.  I parked the 68 Mustang with the 428CJ and the Holley HP carb down at a local shop and went in to buy some things.  Came out 15 minutes later and the car wouldn't start.  Cranked and cranked for 30-40 seconds, pedal to the floor, and finally it coughed once, caught, and then died right away.  Had to restart it 3 times before it would stay running.  The car has an electric fuel pump and a return style fuel system, but it was obviously flooding from boiling fuel in the carb bowls.

It would have never happened with EFI.  I can't wait to swap to an EFI system on that car...

[cjshaker]

I was just thinking about this yesterday.  Hot day in the Minneapolis area, about 90 degrees and humid.  I parked the 68 Mustang with the 428CJ and the Holley HP carb down at a local shop and went in to buy some things.  Came out 15 minutes later and the car wouldn't start.  Cranked and cranked for 30-40 seconds, pedal to the floor, and finally it coughed once, caught, and then died right away.  Had to restart it 3 times before it would stay running.  The car has an electric fuel pump and a return style fuel system, but it was obviously flooding from boiling fuel in the carb bowls.

It would have never happened with EFI.  I can't wait to swap to an EFI system on that car...

But it started. One bad sensor and you would have been stranded.
I realize there are a thousand things that can strand a car, I just don't like adding to that list.

[Heo]

Experience tells me that, if you ever have computer problems with your setup, find the nearest 10 year old and they will likely figure it out...lol

I'm just one of those types who's unduly paranoid about having a breakdown and having to leave my car someplace. So simplicity rules in my book. I like all the advantages of fuel injection and admire the guys who go that route, but not being able to diagnose and fix something on the side of the road keeps me from wanting to go that route myself. I do love projects like yours though.

Im the same that way, i have never left a car stranded

[turbohunter]

See I'm the opposite! Marc's project has made my brain start churning about finally building this Kenne Bell blower motor I've been dreaming about for 5 years. After my '62 is complete and out of my workshop, I think my next project will be an engine only, no vehicle. A dyno queen project.

That sounds like fun.

Speaking of brain churning, I’ll show you my inspiration for going this way. Even though mine is not close in power it’s something to aspire to.
This engine is to me one of the most bad ass deals I’ve ever seen. Go to the dyno session and listen to it scream. It’s an ungodly sound.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=168.0
I hope the owner doesn't mind me using his picture.

[turbohunter]

ITS ALIVE
Then it blew a fuse and I didn’t have another. So I’ll get some video tomorrow.
It ran twice before the fuse. The first time I didn’t even expect. Just finished solving a problem and gave it a quick check and the damn thing ran.
I had been yakkin with Jay so I called him and he heard it run so it happened.
Went shoot a quick vid and it blew a fuse. It’s messing with me.
Anyway it sounds wonderful. And loud.
I’ll figure out why it’s blowing a fuse and it will bend to my will.
Stay tuned.

Went back yesterday evening out to find why it blew a fuse.
I’m an idiot.
Somehow during the process I transposed the fuel fuse and the ECU fuse. The fuel system needs more amperage and since I got them backwards I had a small fuse in the power hungry fuel side and a large fuse in the not power hungry ECU side.
I have each relay labeled but not the fuses. So I somehow didn’t track the wire correctly and got fuses mixed up.
I’ll label them today.
Self inflicted wound. Dumbass.

[jayb]

Looking forward to that video, Marc! 

[turbohunter]

Here you go Jay.
Sorry you have to watch my leg a lot while I peruse what’s going on but such is the nature of first starts, or second.

https://youtu.be/Nuj_-EhDpw4

Now to get to tuning.

[jayb]

Marc, check your MAP sensor settings.  At idle you are showing 100 KPa (the number on the left side of the VE table), which is basically atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold.  At idle you should have vacuum, maybe 50 KPa or around there somewhere.  You may have a setting wrong, or you may have the vacuum line connected wrong, or something.  100 KPa means that the ecu thinks you are at wide open throttle, with full atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold.  In other words, zero vacuum.

Sounds great in any case.  I'm looking forward to the walk-around video, want to see those valve covers, coils, and plug wires!  Good luck with the tuning - Jay

[turbohunter]

There you go.
Map sensor hooked up oops
Lots more tuning to do.

I tell you what guys. If I can put this system together ANYBODY can. Because I am an electronic moron. But I’m a moron that can learn.


https://youtu.be/80xofdhEW98

Hmm, good name for a band. Electronic moron.

[cjshaker]

That's awesome, Marc!! Sounds nice and nasty, and sure seems responsive to those short throttle blips. And considering everything you've done and gone through, a couple of minor mistakes is pretty darned good, IMO. Can't wait to see the car out and running.

[turbohunter]

Thanks Doug
Yes throttle response is great. Those vids are the 3rd and 4th time it fired. Yesterday for the first and second time the system was unstable. I had just finished wiring and gave the key a turn to check and the damn thing fired up the first time.
I had an issue blowing fuses as I alluded to before but I couldn’t find a short. I called the factory and told them what was happening and how I had it set up. I also told them that if I increased the amperage on the fuse say from 2 amp to 5 amp the fuse wouldn’t blow but I was scared to do that. They told me that the MSD capacitor that I had in line to give clean power to the ECU draws a bunch of power real quick on power up to charge itself up. That initial charge up was probably blowing through the fuse at low amperage. They had no problem with leaving the 5 amp fuse in line as the ECU itself has its own fusing. In talking on the phone with Jay about it he asked if I had the capacitor before or after the fuse. I had it installed after. My initial reasoning was that it was to keep the power for the ECU clean so I installed it on the ECU’ s circuit which meant after the fuse. Jay said that he installed all his before the fuse and had no problems.
Ok so I went back to work and turned the system on, poof, blew the 5 amp fuse. So I took it apart and re wired the capacitor in front of the fuse and put a small fuse back in it. Viola, stable.
But the upshot of all this is that mechanically everything is good and solid. My planning, wiring and the mechanics of setting the engine timing (Which I worried about at first) came out great. Whew. My little mistakes are just learning mistakes and that’s good.
I pity my rear tires when it gets on the road.

[mbrunson427]

Awesome! The exhaust note sounds great.