FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fe468stroker on May 07, 2023, 11:36:54 AM
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I replaced the 50+ year old brake lines in my FE Mustang. Whole lot of fun snaking the new lines around the engine :P After checking and fixing any major leaks, it seems there are several connections that are seeping just a little fluid after tightening and retightening. Did use the double flaring tool according to the directions. Has anybody had this problem and if so what was the fix?
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I don't intend to impugn your skills here, but if the flare is not sealing, the flare wasn't done properly or the tool is not up to the task. That it is leaking at several points rules out a materials issue. I will tell you that if these are mild steel lines, you need to make sure you are using a flare tool made for that material. A lot of the cheaper tools will flare aluminum and copper just fine but do a very bad job on steel. Sadly, the cheaper tool is the one that you will find at your local parts store.
Edit: Corrected "...very bad job on aluminum." to "...very bad job on steel."
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Like Gerry said, sounds like the double flares were not done properly. With most inexpensive universal double flare tools, quite often the flare tends to not be centered, which can prevent the flare from sealing . I have a Blue Point (cheaper Snap On tool), that has a bar with 3 or 4 different tube sizes, and although I have done quite a few double flares over the years, quite often it took several attempts to get a good looking, centered double flare. Several years ago, I bought an inline flaring tool, which works so much better. No more 2 piece split bar with multiple sizes, the inline tool I bought only works with 3/16" tubing, but it works so much better. Since it is also more compact, it is easier to do the flares from under the car, in tighter conditions. Leaking brake line fittings are not an area where anything less than a perfect double flare is "good enough".
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Only leaking issue I've ever had was pre-bent and pre-flared stainless steel lines. I believe that was due to the hardness of the stainless steel. Tighten, loosen, retighten the leaky connections about 20 times stopped the leaks. I would not flare that myself because it requires annealing to prevent cracks.
I normally use the EZ bend copper nickel line. It's the easiest to bend and flare and it's very resistant to road salt.
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Interesting pointers. Not trying to alter the subject but where are some good places to pick up the materials? I am looking to redo a fuel line as well as some brake lines.
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As far as materials, Cunifer (NiCop) as referenced above is the easiest to bend and flare. You can buy the tubing and the fittings on Amazon. You can also get steel line. The fittings are the same. As far as the bending and flare tool, I use Rigid. There are other quality tools for working with steel line (or cunifer) so when shopping, make sure you read the description to ensure it will flare steel. And watch some videos on how to do a proper double flare. Cutting, cleaning, positioning, and pressing the flare all need to be done properly.
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As far as materials, Cunifer (NiCop) as referenced above is the easiest to bend and flare. You can buy the tubing and the fittings on Amazon. You can also get steel line. The fittings are the same. As far as the bending and flare tool, I use Rigid. There are other quality tools for working with steel line (or cunifer) so when shopping, make sure you read the description to ensure it will flare steel. And watch some videos on how to do a proper double flare. Cutting, cleaning, positioning, and pressing the flare all need to be done properly.
Thanks for the information. I have a "Mastercool" flare kit that's got good reviews. The CuNiFer material sounds like a really great option. For extreme situations (w/o power brakes) the hardest line option (SS) would give you stiffer peddle feel. My application is a street car. So the low corrosion and easy bending is a win, win.
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Boat trailer ibrake lines in salt water disintegrate after ten years. Bulk stainless steel brake line flared with a SnapOn flaring tool rated for stainless steel. The material is tough, the pressure required to flare the tube strains my milk. The clamping force in the split vise tests the grooves cut in the jaws to keep the tube from slipping. Slow, methodical and patient technique yields desired results. No leaks. The flare nuts are stainless steel as well.
The mild steel brake lines on the Galaxie were easier but required the same attention. I have three flare tools but bought the SnapOn because the others were not up to the one and done test. I hate brake fluid almost as much as I hate antifreeze. I treat both fluids with respect. And yet I am considering buying stock in floor dry.
Good luck getting yours right.
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OK Thanks for the replies. I am using steel lines and it looks like my flaring tool won't do it right. One leak is at the factory flared end of the line.with no bends anywhere near it. Wish I had left the old lines alone.
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Why I plumbed most of my race car lines with -3 AN lines and fittings.
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I may have found the cure to the seepage problem. The replacement lines from the local auto parts store (probably overseas) didn't feel smooth on the inside of the flare surface. Found a round tip grinding attachment about the right size for the Dremel tool and dressed the ID until smooth. As of last check the seepage has stopped. Won't know for sure until system is bled and pressure applied. Might be something to check/correct before bending and installing. Would save frustation and hair loss.
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You can also use copper flare washers. If you have all the lines bent up and you're happy with that part of it, then rather than do it all over again, just use the washers.
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I may have found the cure to the seepage problem. The replacement lines from the local auto parts store (probably overseas) didn't feel smooth on the inside of the flare surface. Found a round tip grinding attachment about the right size for the Dremel tool and dressed the ID until smooth. As of last check the seepage has stopped. Won't know for sure until system is bled and pressure applied. Might be something to check/correct before bending and installing. Would save frustation and hair loss.
Yeah, I'd expect any surface imperfections on the flares on steel lines would result in leakage. When I read your original post, it looked like you were doing the flaring and that's where it was leaking, but if it was actually the store flare ends, you can at least feel more confident about your own work. Parts quality has continued to go downhill in my experience so it seems like inspecting things closer and closer has become required.
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As mentioned above,use flare gaskets. They will eliminate 99% of fitting leaks on any type of tubing if the flare is reasonably done.
https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Flare-Gasket-2GF/dp/B00YTF8ZTK/ref=pd_vtp_h_vft_none_pd_vtp_h_vft_none_sccl_7/144-9439167-5894110?pd_rd_w=AT8Sk&content-id=amzn1.sym.a5610dee-0db9-4ad9-a7a9-14285a430f83&pf_rd_p=a5610dee-0db9-4ad9-a7a9-14285a430f83&pf_rd_r=95JQKHCEV63EFCE104Z8&pd_rd_wg=GOfrd&pd_rd_r=75143a13-f852-42c7-b92f-c53dda045cf7&pd_rd_i=B00YTF8ZTK&psc=1
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I bought the Mastercool kit and played with it before I actually made permanent lines. I love it. Have done dozens of lines and no problems yet. I have tried it on SST but the results weren't the best. You got to shop for good SST brake line. Alot of cheap SST on the market. The Mastercool is worth the price and has paid for itself.