Author Topic: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011  (Read 13576 times)

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jayb

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April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« on: April 03, 2011, 09:51:03 PM »
I made more progress on the car this week, although I wasn't able to work on it for any more than a few hours at a time this week.  Fortunately, I had a couple of good weeknights where I made some progress, and I found some parts I'd been looking for, which made the work a little more productive.

On Monday night I was looking on ebay for the rear trim for a 69 Shelby, that goes on the trunk lid and quarter panel end caps.  This trim had been hard to find in the past, so I was surprised to see a company on ebay advertising parts for these cars, and they had the trim I was looking for.  They are some kind of a Shelby restoration outfit in Green Bay Wisconsin, and in addition to the rear trim items they also advertised the front bumper brackets that are specific to 69 Shelbys.  I had been planning on fabricating these brackets from stock Mustang parts, but this was going to take some time, and given that I'm always behind schedule on these projects, I figured it would be a plus if I could just buy the brackets and bolt them on.  So, Tuesday on my lunch break I gave the company a call and ordered the parts.

Tuesday night I had a free night out in the shop, so I continued working on getting the front end of the car put together.  I had to build some brackets to help hold the fiberglass fenders and headlight buckets in the correct position, and they had to be adjustable so I could twist the parts around and check the alignment, then move them again if they weren't right.  After a few hours on Tuesday night I finally had the brackets fabricated, and had the fender positioned so I could install the fiberglass panels that bridge the gap between the fenders at the front of the car.  The car looked a lot more complete with these panels in position.

Thursday my parts came, so I was back out in the shop Thursday night, and bolted on the front bumper brackets.  Unfortunately, the bumper wouldn't fit on the brackets, and after examining the situation a little I noticed that the problem was the driver's side front frame rail, which seemed to have a bow or pucker in the sheet metal that caused the driver's side bumper bracket to angle outboard a little, instead of coming straight out so it would align with the bumper.  A little work with a hammer and the torch resolved that issue, and I finally got the bumper installed after the modifications.  I spent the rest of the evening Thursday getting the grille trimmed so it would fit around the headlight rings and bolt into the correct position.

Finally on Friday night I worked on getting the hood hold downs installed.  The hood pins came with brackets that bolt onto the front fenders under the hood.  I cut the holes in the fiberglass hood, bolted on the hood pin brackets, closed the hood and looked through the holes, and saw they were misaligned by a good half inch.  Seems like every bit of this fiberglass related stuff has to be custom fit or modified in some way.  After screwing around with this for a while I finally concluded that the only way to make the hood pins fit into the brackets was to shorten the brackets, so I cut them in half on my bandsaw, took out a half inch, and welded them back together.  By the end of the night I had the hood pins installed, and had re-tweaked the front end to get everything into alignment as much as possible.  Here's some photos of the front end, and also the back end of the car with the trim pieces on the trunk lid and end caps set into position:







Saturday morning I had to be at work, but I got back out to the shop on Saturday afternoon for a few hours.  My plan had been to try to finish up the roll cage stuff on Saturday, such as installing the swing out side bars, welding on the tabs for the seat belts, etc.  But I just didn't feel like doing that; I was kind of pumped up to get to work on my new intake manifold.  So I decided to start on that project instead, and leave the rest of the roll cage work for later.  The first thing I had to do with the intake was to make a jig to build it on.  I had previously built a couple of sheet metal intakes, using dummy engines to get everything fixtured properly, but there were limitations to using this approach.  First of all, getting the bottom half of the runners welded up while the manifold was bolted to the engine was practically impossible, so in the past I'd welded around the top half of the runners, and then removed the manifold from the engine to weld the bottom half.  This always caused the manifold to warp, so significant other work then had to be done to get the manifold to bolt onto the engine properly and seal to the cylinder heads.  I figured I would build a jig to eliminate this problem, building the jig so that the bottom was open, and after the top half of the runners were welded, I could just flip the whole jig upside down and get at the bottom side of the runners more easily.  I'm not a particularly skilled aluminum welder, and for me access to the weld is really important if I'm going to do a decent job, so I figured a jig like this would make it a lot easier for me to build the intake.

The other advantage to the jig is that I can take advantage of my powder coating oven to pre-heat the manifold prior to welding.  This always makes aluminum welding go easier in my experience, but there is no way I'm going to horse a block and cylinder heads into the powdercoat oven for preheating.  Using a jig would make that job a lot easier.

The manifold I'm building was originally conceived about two years ago, and I purchased all the materials I needed then, including the steel for the jig.  I used 1/4" wall 2X3 rectangular steel tubing to make a framework for the jig, plus some 3/8" thick angle iron to form the flanges that the intake would bolt to.  After digging these materials out, the first thing I had to do was to drill the holes in the angle iron that the manifold would bolt to.  In addition to the five holes for the manifold bolts, I also decided to add another 10 bolt holes for some 1/4" bolts that would add further support to the manifold's intake flanges, and help prevent warpage when welding.  With 15 bolt holes for each piece of angle iron, I decided to set the angle iron up on my CNC machine and drill the holes on that.  Took me about an hour to get set up and drill the holes in the first piece, and by then I had to leave the shop until later due to some family obligations.  Later that evening, I got back out to the shop and got the other piece of angle iron drilled.  Then, I had to tap all 15 holes in each piece of angle iron so that the manifold would bolt on.  My CNC machine doesn't do a good job tapping, and tends to break the tap more frequently than it actually taps the hole, so I had decided to tap all the holes by hand.  This pretty much burned up the remainder of the evening, and I was only about half way through the second piece of angle iron with the tap.

Sunday morning again I had a few hours, so I got out to the shop early, finished tapping the second piece of angle iron, and got set up to weld the jig together.  I wanted to make sure I kept it as flat as possible during the welding operation, so I cleared off my 24" granite surface plate (which I never use as a surface plate anyway), and set the four pieces of rectangular tubing up on that.  After welding them together using some caution to avoid overheating any one particular area. I grabbed one of my stock SOHC intake manifolds and bolted the angle iron pieces to that, then set up that assembly on the rectangular tube base. After I got it where I wanted, I carefully welded the angle iron to the base.  At this point the jig with the manifold installed looked like this:



With the intake firmly fixed in place, next I used the lathe and the mill to make a piece of steel tube that welded onto the frame of the jig, to correctly position the distributor hole in the manifold.  After welding the tube in place the front of the jig looked like this:



At that point it was around 1:00, and I had more family stuff to attend to, but after dinner at 6:00 I got a couple more hours out in the shop.  The flanges for the intake manifold had already been laser cut back in 2009, before I'd acquired my CNC mill.  However, the flanges hadn't been cut for the additional 10 holes that I'd put in the angle iron part of the jig, to help hold the flange flat during welding.  Since I already had the program on my CNC for the holes I'd put in the angle iron, I just set the flanges up on the machine with the same zero point, and drilled the holes with a larger bit so that the 1/4" bolts would fit through.  Here's a pic of one of the flanges on the CNC machine:



After I got the flanges modified, I removed the factory manifold from the jig and bolted on the flanges.  Then I test fit the manifold floor in place on the jig.  Pictures below:





So, I think I've got a good start on the manifold now.  Next week I hope to get the tubes cut and welded, and the general shape of the manifold mocked up.  I'll post another update next Sunday night.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 10:54:24 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Glenn N

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 07:59:29 AM »
Jay I think Jim Cowles is the owner of that Shelby place in GB Wis. He's been a long time SAAC member since the late 70's as I remember. Good guy and good parts, not cheap! He posts sometimes on FE.com. Anyway nice progress on the Shelby cammer project!! It's been fun to follow along so far. G.

Mario428

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 06:49:04 PM »
A thought, you know I am full of them. GRIN
THat CNC is wasting away not making intake flanges.



IF you look at the head plates on the design I am tinkering with you will see port extensions sticking out, 1/8 wall so the runner sits on it, some chamfering and it is much easier to weld.
Would like to claim the idea as my own but saw this done on some intakes my machine shop did. Allyn is/was a Comp Elim racer who built his own intakes and did them this way.
Yours is not a complicated looking plate like a std FE one is with the pushrods and all to deal with. Will set you back some timewise but the saving may be in the welding.

I do have to say you do some nice work, take your time and do it right. Also a work ethic I could only wish for right now!!!!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 06:50:43 PM by Mario428 »

jayb

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 09:03:43 PM »
Nice looking drawing, Mario.  I like the idea of welding up the tube a ways; I've always found that aluminum welding thin material to thick material gives me problems, and your approach would eliminate that. 

Right now I'm still wrestling with the overall design of this intake.  I stopped by my machine shop today to look at a sheet metal intake they have there at the moment, for a big block Chev.  Looking at the heads and the intake combined, the distance along the centerline of the port from the valve seat to the plenum opening is 11.25".  6" of this is in the cylinder head, making the intake runner 5.25" long.  Now with the SOHC, the distance along the centerline of the port from the valve to the head port opening is only 3".  This means if I was to duplicate the runner length of the setup that I looked at today, I would have to make the runners in the intake 8.25" long.  If you look at the geometry of this, you will see that there is no way to run a straight runner from a common plenum down to the port unless you cant the runner up at an extremely high angle, which is no way to build an intake.  If the runner was longer, I could make it a crossram.  If it was shorter, I could make it a conventional sheet metal intake design.  But this length is problematic.

As a result I'm leaning towards runners that come out of the plenum into a 45 degree curve, and then go straight down to the port.  This makes building the runners kind of a tricky deal, starting with an aluminum tube with a 45 degree mandrel bend at one end, and then cutting it into kind of a pie shape on each side, and welding in some pieces in order to get a taper to the runner itself.  And of course the tubing isn't that thick, only .070", and its not 5052, so it won't weld all that great.  I'm making up a test tube tonight, just to see what I'm in for.  If its really an impossible task, I will have to rethink how I do this...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

WConley

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 03:56:50 PM »
Nice work Jay!  The car is really starting to shape up.   ;)
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

Mario428

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 07:14:27 PM »
Nice looking drawing, Mario.  I like the idea of welding up the tube a ways; I've always found that aluminum welding thin material to thick material gives me problems, and your approach would eliminate that.  

Right now I'm still wrestling with the overall design of this intake.  I stopped by my machine shop today to look at a sheet metal intake they have there at the moment, for a big block Chev.  Looking at the heads and the intake combined, the distance along the centerline of the port from the valve seat to the plenum opening is 11.25".  6" of this is in the cylinder head, making the intake runner 5.25" long.  Now with the SOHC, the distance along the centerline of the port from the valve to the head port opening is only 3".  This means if I was to duplicate the runner length of the setup that I looked at today, I would have to make the runners in the intake 8.25" long.  If you look at the geometry of this, you will see that there is no way to run a straight runner from a common plenum down to the port unless you cant the runner up at an extremely high angle, which is no way to build an intake.  If the runner was longer, I could make it a crossram.  If it was shorter, I could make it a conventional sheet metal intake design.  But this length is problematic.

As a result I'm leaning towards runners that come out of the plenum into a 45 degree curve, and then go straight down to the port.  This makes building the runners kind of a tricky deal, starting with an aluminum tube with a 45 degree mandrel bend at one end, and then cutting it into kind of a pie shape on each side, and welding in some pieces in order to get a taper to the runner itself.  And of course the tubing isn't that thick, only .070", and its not 5052, so it won't weld all that great.  I'm making up a test tube tonight, just to see what I'm in for.  If its really an impossible task, I will have to rethink how I do this...

Does get tricky, Pipemax tells me I need an 11.25 inch long runner for my low RPM 465, though 9.625 would work with reduced torque
I have seen sheet metal intakes where the runner extended into the plenum but the end of the runner has to have a bell shape to help air flow in. This helps the runner length, lowers the plenum on the engine and keeps the plenum size required. May be something to look at assuming a fuel injection deal where the plenum is dry.

jayb

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 08:18:58 PM »
That's funny, Pipemax is telling me I need a 13.9" long runner for a 7000 RPM peak on my 585" SOHC.  I don't believe it.  Would you do me a favor and run my combination through your Pipemax program?  Maybe mine is goofed up somehow.  Specs are 4.5" bore, 4.6" stroke, 6.7" rod, 13:1 CR, .730" lift, 282@.050", 2.3/1.9 valves with 11/32 stems, centerline length of intake and exhaust ports is 3", and peak HP RPM is 7000.  I think that's all the info Pipemax needs, if I recall correctly... (my Pipemax program is on my other computer).

By the way, I came up with a new, somewhat different intake manifold design tonight.  I'll post some drawings of it in my next blog entry.  Sure wish I was a 3D CAD whiz like you, because I think it would look pretty cool in 3D.  Guess I'll just have to build it  ;D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

WConley

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 10:27:36 PM »
Jay - you can put some pretty decent bends in those runners and not have major losses.  A dry intake runner is less sensitive than a primary header pipe.  I'm curious to see what you've come up with!

BTW - I'm putting the deposit on a new toy tomorrow.  Should have it in a couple of weeks!  It even has a fourth axis for when I get ambitious  ;D



Now I don't have to hate you so much LOL!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

jayb

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 11:04:13 PM »
Wow Bill!  :o  That's a good looking machine!  Do you mind if I ask how much?  I looked at a few Haas machines before I finally found my Milltronics.  After only a year I can definitely see the limitations of my machine, and am actually keeping my eyes open for another one that is completely enclosed, with high pressure coolant, at least 12 tool change stations (my machine only has 6), and rigid tapping.  My biggest problem is trying to fit a better machine into my shop with the 7 foot tall garage doors.  The machine I have is a pretty small one, and it barely fit.  Might have to knock out a wall to get a bigger machine in the building!

(I'm also really glad you posted that photo, because I finally got a chance to use that bug-eyed smilely LOL!)

On the intake, I figured I'd position the injectors on the straight part of the runner, which goes straight into the port.  The curved portion is upstream of that, so the fuel wouldn't have to make that bend.  The problem with this approach is that I have to take a mandrel bent aluminum pipe and try to make it a tapered pipe, and welding in these pie shaped sections of aluminum is problematic.  I tried to do one of them tonight, and it did not turn out real well.  My new design goes back to a straight tube, but uses a "different" plenum design.  I think it might work out pretty well...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

babybolt

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 04:27:15 PM »
The professional sheetmetal intake fabricators have a die that they wrap a sheet of aluminum around to form the tapered runners, then weld the two halves together.  Aluminum tube is much more difficult to bend without kinking or reducing the cross-section than steel tubing.  

Barry Grant made a cast aluminum cross-ram tunnel ram type of intake manifold right before they went out of business.  The runners cross under the plenum and attached to the bottom of the opposing sides of the plenum.  I saw an article in a magazine on this but do not recall the name of the magazine.  

Here's some pictures I took of a Shelby drag car at the BBF Bash in Kentucky circa ~ 2007 or 2008.  The owners name I think is Tim, he makes headers as can be seen in a display in one of the pictures and is located somewhere north of Indy.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5Zoxhgt0A8Z5WlpcvVJINg?feat=directlink

OK, I goofed up the pics, that above was an old rusty car that rattled into a parking lot here in MI and as you can see he has a car tie down strap securing the rear suspension.

Here's the Shelby pics:

https://picasaweb.google.com/429Nascar/Bash?feat=directlink

« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 08:35:17 PM by babybolt »

Mario428

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 05:40:09 PM »
Hate to tell you but our versions of Pipemax concur
Pro Stock or Comp Elim tunnel ram requires a 13.9 tuned length or 10.9 runner length
Single plane type length is 10.9 or 7.9 runner, less torque but much easier to package.
A thought (there is always 1 LOL) but pipemax was written to figure out header lengths and sizes. The intake length is something calculated as a byproduct of everything else. My question is where in the rpm range is the torque reduced using the 4th harmonic instead of the 3rd. Would it move the torque range down a bit or how much effect would it have. I am thinking of the relatively tight converter you have to use to be able to do the drives between tracks.
8 inch runner sounds a lot easier to package to me, life is all about the compromises, not everyone will put up with or can use the huge lump I have on my hood where I can put anything in. GRIN

jayb

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 08:24:15 PM »
The professional sheetmetal intake fabricators have a die that they wrap a sheet of aluminum around to form the tapered runners, then weld the two halves together.  Aluminum tube is much more difficult to bend without kinking or reducing the cross-section than steel tubing.  

I actually did that with the FE wedge sheet metal intake that I built.  I machined a two piece die set that I could put a sheet of aluminum into and then press the die set together in my hydraulic press to form half the runner.  I'm leaning towards doing that with the SOHC intake as well, after trying to weld the aluminum tube that I bought.  I can get the aluminum sheet in 5052, which will also help with the welding.  The other alternative I'm considering is to CNC the aluminum runners, but I think it would be easier to bend up the halves and weld them together.  I can imagine that cnc cutting the runners would be a pretty long process, and that would probably slow me down quite a bit.  Not to mention that I might need an 8" long end mill :D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 08:33:07 PM »
Hate to tell you but our versions of Pipemax concur
Pro Stock or Comp Elim tunnel ram requires a 13.9 tuned length or 10.9 runner length
Single plane type length is 10.9 or 7.9 runner, less torque but much easier to package.
A thought (there is always 1 LOL) but pipemax was written to figure out header lengths and sizes. The intake length is something calculated as a byproduct of everything else. My question is where in the rpm range is the torque reduced using the 4th harmonic instead of the 3rd. Would it move the torque range down a bit or how much effect would it have. I am thinking of the relatively tight converter you have to use to be able to do the drives between tracks.
8 inch runner sounds a lot easier to package to me, life is all about the compromises, not everyone will put up with or can use the huge lump I have on my hood where I can put anything in. GRIN

Well, at least my Pipemax program isn't goofed up LOL!  Regarding my converter, it isn't exactly tight, with a stall speed of 6200 RPM.  My experiences at Drag Week have allowed me to experiment with running looser and looser converters on the street, and believe it or not I have found that I can get away with a normal race stall speed converter and drive down the road just fine.  I hang a big transmission cooler on the front of the radiator, and have never had a problem.

My new intake design allows for changing the runner lengths on the dyno to test which length works the best in the 6000-7500 RPM range that I am interested in.  Incrementing the runner lengths a half inch at a time to zero in on the best length for my combination sounds like a very appealing dyno test to me.  I can also change the lengths in 1/8" increments, or less, to really zero in on the ideal length.  More details on Sunday...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

babybolt

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 08:39:26 PM »
Dove still makes the 427 Can Am cross ram tube intake casting for tunnel port heads.

machoneman

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Re: April 3, 2011 - The Road to Drag Week 2011
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 10:03:31 AM »
Thanks Jay!

Great blog btw.

I have only one question, one that's more rhetorical than anything.

Have you seriously considered an easily removable wheelie bar setup for track time at Drag Week? Would hate to see that Shelby up on the rear bumper on a good biting track.  
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 08:15:58 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag