Author Topic: top speed estimate  (Read 2702 times)

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fryedaddy

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top speed estimate
« on: October 29, 2023, 04:13:06 PM »
does anyone have any idea of how fast you can take a stock suspension 66 fairlane-comet  wot top end?
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

GerryP

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2023, 04:29:21 PM »
Aero will be the biggest issue.  I don't know at what speed for 2nd gen Fairlane but cars with a flat trunk tend to get very light in the ass end around 130 or so.  It gets pretty scary.  Suspension is fine for just going straight.  But without tires for the higher speed, it all blows up in your face.  So tires and aero are your primary concerns.

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2023, 05:18:59 PM »
i meant to word it,with the proper tires,good suspension,66 comet
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Joe-JDC

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2023, 09:08:49 PM »
I think you will find the front of the hood will start to lift upward at anything over 130mph, and the front end will float more than the rear above that speed.  My Cobra hood would bend up about 4" all the way back to the hood pins at 145mph, and would settle back down as the speed dropped below 125mph or so.  The first time it happened, I panicked because I thought the hood was ruined.  I added pins to my '66 mustang to keep the hood on, and also kept the pins on my Mach I race car.   Lots of guys run over 140-150ish with their drag cars, but those hoods are pinned or dzus locked on.   Joe-JDC
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MeanGene

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2023, 10:11:32 PM »
Around 1975, I was running around in my 69 Mach1 with a roller cam and headers etc on the 351 with 4.86 gears, aggravating the Camaro boys as much as possible. I pulled the 3rd member, as Cantrell had found me a set of 31 spline axles and was getting that together, so I put the stock 3.00 pumpkin back in. There's a long, straight stretch on Silverado Trail a few miles north of town, so one night with no cars around I let it eat- tached to 5700, a little over 140, and the top of the driver's window popped out, then the vacuum pulled the headliner down and snapped a couple bows, so the headliner came down on my head. Scared the dogshit out of me lol...

Stangman

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2023, 10:43:56 PM »
Around 1982 when I first got my car  427 with c-6 with 3.00 gears in the rear we have a long stretch near the beach which is miles long. My buddy who had a rocked 280 z with a big turbo and 3.23 if I remember correctly. He had an aftermarket 150 mph speedo because he used to pin the old one. We were on that road right next to each other and he was at top speed 145 and I was still able to move away from him. I would like to think I hit 155-160. He stayed in it but his headlights were a good 25 cars behind me in short order. Now looking back a this not to bright but I did this often. This was the only time that fast because I remember how hard it was to steer it felt like the front was very light and the car was vibrating. But I did spend a lot of time at 125-130. One time I was driving with a buddy at 125 and I thought I saw sprinkles on the windshield so I asked him is it raining and he said no keep going with a giant smile on his face. Well I slowed down and my radiator mount broke and the engine fan went through the radiator. We are lucky we didn’t loose control. That was the last time I really did those long high speed runs and just stuck to 1/4 mile stuff. I really didn’t know a lot about cars back then and didn’t know that these old cars weren’t really made for this as far as safety. I don’t recommend this but to the original poster I would say 150 or so.

frnkeore

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2023, 01:34:38 AM »
Running at those speeds, your nose needs to lower than stock. Low enough that acceleration won't raise it above level. I would want it to be about 1" lower (nose down), under acceleration.

I'd start by cutting 1 coil out of the front springs. That will both lower it and increase spring rate. I would probably want a bigger bar, too.

That would be my starting point and adjust from there.
Frank

My427stang

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2023, 06:56:08 AM »
I think you will find the front of the hood will start to lift upward at anything over 130mph, and the front end will float more than the rear above that speed.  My Cobra hood would bend up about 4" all the way back to the hood pins at 145mph, and would settle back down as the speed dropped below 125mph or so.  The first time it happened, I panicked because I thought the hood was ruined.  I added pins to my '66 mustang to keep the hood on, and also kept the pins on my Mach I race car.   Lots of guys run over 140-150ish with their drag cars, but those hoods are pinned or dzus locked on.   Joe-JDC

Indeed, I did a high speed run with my Mustang, at the time, 489 inch, 3.70 gears, carbed.  I hit the 4th to 5th shift and saw the hood pulling HARD on the latch...corners were well above the fenders when I noticed it. Other than that, pretty uneventful, got out of it and bought pins.
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Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2023, 07:49:17 AM »
In 67 the Fairlane kicked ass at Daytona.
Mario had it sideways at 170 plus and was having the time of his life.
I met him in Dartmouth Nova Scotia at a small tire shop.
We had the green 67 Fairlane XL there that day. Pics and he signed the car.
I raced the crap out of the XL lots of times.
150 no problem.

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2023, 09:28:03 AM »
thanks guys,i dont have a death wish,i was thinking about trying roll racing and i was worried i might get going too fast from a 30-40 mph start + 1/4 mile.i have hood pins,my car sits low,hoosiers,stock front suspension but in good shape.im concerned the roll racing might be a little too much speed for a 66 comet in stock suspension form.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

427mach1

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2023, 11:19:08 AM »
How fast you CAN go, of course, depends on available rear wheel horsepower and proper gearing.  Drag horsepower increases with the cube of the velocity whereas rolling resistance horsepower is proportional to the square of the velocity, so it adds up quickly.  I've run the numbers for my 70 Mach 1, which has a 454 cid sideoiler delivering approximately 400 horsepower to the rear wheels.  For a Cd of 0.52, frontal area of 20.2 square feet, and a weight of 3750, I calculate a top speed of about 170 mile per hour.  The fastest I've ever driven the car was 130 mph and I wouldn't want to go much faster than that.

cammerfe

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2023, 01:02:14 PM »
I ordered my '64 Custom/427-T with the mandatory 'HD' suspension and brakes and a 4.11 rear end. It was delivered to me in February and within several weeks I had installed Traction Master anti-spring-wrap bars, created and installed a deep oil pan to limit oil-pressure woes, and put spring jacks in the front coils and a re-calibrated front alignment. Eight inch M&H Racemasters took up residence in the trunk and for daily use a set of tall Atlas Bucrons went on the back to go with the 6.70-15s that came on the front from the factory. In March, we decided to go to Florida to spectate at the Twelve Hours Of Sebring. I swapped the 4.11 for a 3.50 and disconnected the speedo cable to preserve what was left of the 90 day warranty that was specific to the 427 engine. I'd installed a Sun 'Super' tach so we matched engine speeds in 4th gear with a friend's speedometer and I made up a small chart on a 3X5 card and taped it to the dash.

3000 on the tach equated to about 70 MPH. Except when I planned a weekend at Milan or Detroit Dragway, I left the unlocked 3.50 in the rear. I replaced the speedo gear with one that matched the gear and tire size.

The spring jacks in the front coils raised the front of the car by a couple of inches. Conventional wisdom said that raising the front of the car helped weight transfer to the rear and assisted the launch. It helped create the highly desired 'Gasser Look' and the only drawback was at high speeds. Starting at about 130 the front end feel would get light and float-y.

I'd busted off the output shaft in the T-10 trans and ended up walking home one night. I knew the Executive Engineer at T&C Livonia, where I worked at the time, and he released to me a then-not-yet-in-regular-production big in-'n'-out Toploader to replace it. I put it in, along with a Hurst shifter, and including the necessary new clutch disc, throwout bearing and output yoke. (I had to get the last three pieces from a dealer who specialized in big F-Series truck parts.)

I discovered that, when I came upon some sort of chibrolet 'performance' car on the highway, and a challenge ensued, it was possible to shift back into 3rd gear at a speedo-indicated 100 MPH. It not only made for an excellent 'passing gear', it often discouraged the 409 or corvette.

If we actually got it on, I could not only watch the tach, the speedometer was marked to 120, and the needle would go past the markings. Just to the right of the speedo was a red 'idiot' light marked 'GEN'---although the engine came equipped with an alternator. The speedo needle passed between the indicator bulb and the lens and was visible behind the red lens at about 130. If I shifted back into 4th when the needle disappeared, I was doing about right.

Coming back to Detroit from East Lansing one very early morning after taking the girlfriend back to school after a weekend home, I got into it with a corvette. I was probably going about 70-75 and he came up on me at about 80. I pushed it up a bit, and he did the same. Previous experience required me to look over at him with a big grin as I, quite ostentatiously, downshifted to 3rd at 100 and then nailed it. Soon after going back into 4th, I began to notice the float-y-ness but I was only half-a-dozen cars ahead and he hadn't quit.

Luckily we were on a long straight area of I-96, because I didn't let off until I was past 6000 on the tach. The car was so float-y and light that I was steering with only thumb and finger of each hand so as to not put in too much input. With the already-established extra altitude on the front of the car, the air-flow under the car was almost enough to have me doing a wheely.  It settled down when I let off.

The corvette was simply a pair of lights in the far-back distance. God is sometimes extra kind to fools. ;)

KS

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2023, 01:22:09 PM »
i have only had my comet to 120 or so but it got smoother as i got faster.the windows were rolled up but debris started floating around in the car.i noticed the hood trying to raise so i put pins in a few days later.Steve Morris gave me a parachute, i installed in case i need it.if nothing else,it looks cool.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

cleandan

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2023, 02:50:50 PM »
If you plan on taking the Fairlane faster than 130, for any length of time, I strongly suggest you work on diverting the air going under the car.
The factory suspension is not built to safely control the loads experienced at speeds above 120 mph so anything above 130 is really working things hard.
The areas you get into real trouble occur when the road has a rolling hump that is not a jolt to the suspension from a hard bump but rather a full bottoming followed by a high rebound basically flying the car.

Above 140 everything changes in terms of steering input, suspension bounce and rebound, ride height associated with how the car reacts with the air rushing around it.

I have had my 1966 Sumbeam Tiger up to 157 MPH, and while it does have some suspension modifications, it is basically stock.....and I will never go that fast again unless I divert the air going under the car because it is literally on the brink of crashing at that speed.
125 and under the car is solid, stable, predictable and fun.
130ish and things begin to get light, but still tractable.
140 and the car is talking to you saying...are you sure you want to do this? as things get very light and much less controllable.
150 and the car is now telling you....No, nope, oh Ill go faster because I have the power, but you shouldn't.

machoneman

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2023, 08:31:01 PM »
"The areas you get into real trouble occur when the road has a rolling hump that is not a jolt to the suspension from a hard bump but rather a full bottoming followed by a high rebound basically flying the car."

Well said. Few roads are designed for really high speeds and worse, road repairs, pothole fillers, heavily canted roads (water runoff) and more all conspire to send you sailing off into the weeds even with a well prepared car. Actual road racing courses are carefully made and maintained to avoid dips and rises that can set a car sailing with all 4 tires off the ground.

Btw, going better than 140 in my '70 Mach 1, even with every trick in the suspension 'book' (Ford's own 1970 Boss 302 Chassis Manual) steering got light on a great and flat stretch of road. Ah, the flexi under the bumper spoiler was pretty useless at speed to keep air from going under.  The winning 1970 Trans-Am Mustangs all had much bigger and deeper chin spoilers (custom made, aluminum, rigidly mounted) to keep the front down and avoid that light steering at speeds often approaching 170 mph on long tracks. And yes, I'm also a big fan of doing what one can to minimize under-the-car airflow. 

Some great pics on just how big the custom chin spoilers were on the Trans-Am car:     

http://www.historictransam.com/Drivers/RossMyers70Mustang16.html
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 08:43:24 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2023, 08:53:40 PM »
does anyone have any idea of how fast you can take a stock suspension 66 fairlane-comet  wot top end?

Whatever you do, sneak up to it. Get up to say 110 on a great road and see how the steering feels. If o.k., then up to say 115 or so. Rinse and repeat but slowly. Once the steering gets light, that's your top. Oh, and NEVER snap the throttle closed nor hit the brakes hard at speed. Ease it all down.
Bob Maag

frnkeore

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2023, 02:17:40 AM »
A front air dam, will help add weight to the front BUT, you have to have balance!

With a fast back car, where the roof line drops, the camber of that line, causes low pressure at that point and will make the rear wheels light. You must maintain a rake, as I described above. If the rear gets light, you'll need a spoiler, to offset the lift of the roof line. 3" tall would probably be enough. Both a flat air dam and spoiler will add drag.

Front and rear shocks and spring rates are important, too. If you get out of shape at 100 mph or more, you won't be able to get control back, unless the spring rates are balance. In a drag car, that can be a problem. The front spring rate needs to stiffer than the rear or, the back end, will beat you, to where your going and the lift of the fast back, will lift you right up and roll just like in NASCAR. Set up this way, the car will feel very stable at speed and go faster.

Lowering the car will help, too.

Quote
Actual road racing courses are carefully made and maintained to avoid dips and rises that can set a car sailing with all 4 tires off the ground.


The straightaway sections of a road course, will be fairly good but, can have dips in them. The faster areas with curves can have places that have a hump in the curve, Willow Springs, CA turn 6, for example and turn 9 at Riverside (no longer there). If your wheels aren't straight, while going over the hump, you'll find yourself in the dirt. Formula cars, won't generally roll in those spots but, higher CG stock type cars, will.

First rule, keep all 4 on the ground!

Frank

Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2023, 07:41:39 AM »
I would drive my 67 Fairlane at 160 MPH or more if I had the money.
I'll be lucky if I get to drive out of the garage. ;D

428kidd

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2023, 07:50:51 AM »
 I knew the Executive Engineer at T&C Livonia, where I worked at the time, and he released to me a then-not-yet-in-regular-production big in-'n'-out Toploader to replace it.

That would have been a Big in Small out, No big in big out until 66.

427mach1

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2023, 08:55:54 AM »
Removed
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 10:23:18 PM by 427mach1 »

galaxiex

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2023, 09:06:43 AM »
Back in the 80's I had a 68 Mustang fastback FE power and  Top Loader, that had a Shelby style front valence with integrated chin spoiler.
No rear spoiler or wing.

At speed 75 - 80 mph and up, I could feel the the front end "pull down" and the steering seemed to tighten up.

Many times (foolishly) drove the car at 120+ mph and it never felt unstable at speed.


Edit: I had cut one coil off the FE front coils and had a 1 1/8" front sway bar.
So the car had a slight rake with more-or-less stock rear leaf spring height.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 08:07:07 PM by galaxiex »
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blykins

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2023, 10:02:14 AM »
Never been in anything "vintage" at speed, but I've been in plenty of fairly new vehicles at speed.  I neither confirm nor deny that I've been in both an SN95 Mustang and a New Edge Mustang at over 140 mph.  I also neither confirm nor deny that both cars handled very well, but the windshield wipers were beating the windshields to death. 

Just as an added quip, I got to drive a Busch series car around Charlotte and at 135-140 mph, I could wiggle my foot and the car would instantly respond and accelerate.  It was amazing. 
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427mach1

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2023, 10:12:06 AM »
Never been in anything "vintage" at speed, but I've been in plenty of fairly new vehicles at speed.  I neither confirm nor deny that I've been in both an SN95 Mustang and a New Edge Mustang at over 140 mph.  I also neither confirm nor deny that both cars handled very well, but the windshield wipers were beating the windshields to death. 

Just as an added quip, I got to drive a Busch series car around Charlotte and at 135-140 mph, I could wiggle my foot and the car would instantly respond and accelerate.  It was amazing.

Sounds like you've unofficially had some fun on the street and track! 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 10:25:23 AM by 427mach1 »

MeanGene

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2023, 06:19:06 PM »
I didn't think to mention that when I had the 69 Mach1 up over 140, it had 428 springs with a coil cut off, a-arms lowered 1", and had the '69 "long" front spoiler, and the rear wing with the window slats. Stayed pretty stable, just that headliner on my head thing  :'(

Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2023, 06:34:39 PM »
I put these covers on the cowl to stop the air from coming in.
This car is very fast on the highway.


Mark Bliss

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2023, 07:49:16 PM »
I've never owned a set of street tires that I would trust over 130. "Back in my foolish youth" nor now.
I have been 140+ on drag race tires, for those brief blasts.
Decades ago I knew a guy who ran a "Nascar experience" business. I dont know for sure, But I am pretty certain (If a student passed earlier stage "tests") they usually paced those guys to a maximum apx 110. I drove one to about 120 on the old hard tires and wont hesitate to describe the ride as terrifyingly loose.

An old story I love. Probably well known by most Mustang/Shelby fans.
Carroll Shelby oversaw a prototype '67 car build with a LeMans 427. Super Snake. So rare that the official clubs and registries strongly argued it never existed. The debate lasted for decades.
When someone rolled out and claimed this was the car and showed it, they were outright mocked.
Until Carroll himself saw it.
He said "yep, that's the one!" And told the story of being clocked in testing driving it in excess of 160 MPH.
Not really a prepped race car. Basically, a production GT-500 on skinny bias-ply tires. He said they filled them with nitrogen and jacked the pressure to 60 PSI.
I personally am of the opinion that even if slightly exaggerated...
They must have grown the avocados in jumbo size in Texas! That is insane!

Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2023, 08:16:18 PM »
The video of it. 142 MPH according to the guy with the watch.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=426960557850249

Mark Bliss

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2023, 10:54:04 PM »
Great link to the old tire ad.

Even if it was "only" 142 though- Still nuts. (Pun semi-intended)

cammerfe

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2023, 06:26:13 PM »
I knew the Executive Engineer at T&C Livonia, where I worked at the time, and he released to me a then-not-yet-in-regular-production big in-'n'-out Toploader to replace it.

That would have been a Big in Small out, No big in big out until 66.

All sorts of things were around if you knew where to look and who to talk to. Bruno was always very kind to me. Big in-'n'-out. ;)

KS

Jb427

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2023, 08:37:10 PM »
Here is a link to a true story from down under. I think every one will enjoy it.

https://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/the-true-story-of-ho-down-the-hume

Joe-JDC

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2023, 08:57:36 PM »
This kinda got off topic, but my other fast car story is my '70 Shelby GT-500 going to Bonneville.  My F-I-L was a WWII disabled Veteran who lost his left hand to a grenade from the enemy.  My inlaws flew out to Utah where I was stationed at the time, and he wanted to visit Bonneville to see the salt.  I took him in the Shelby, and as we were driving along, he casually asked how fast would this car go.  It has a 140 speedometer, and there were no posted speed limits back then, so I said, lets find out.  When you leave Salt Lake City, you drive towards Wendover NV and the last 46 miles are nearly as straight as an arrow.   I slowly stepped up the speed to 120, and the front end settled down and felt solid, so I pushed it on up until the speedometer was touching the 140, and my F-I-L held his arm with his right hand and leaned over and watched the needle, and then said, "That is fast enough".  I pushed it on a bit and it hit 153 mph, just to see if it would go faster.  When we got to Bonneville, he ran around the car on the salt and took a movie picture of the salt and laughed like a little kid.  It was one of the best memories I have of him.  He died a short time later from a massive heart attack.  Anyway, the Shelby had the AA camshaft, adjustable rocker arms, aluminum intake, headers, tweaked carb, re-curved distributor, and deep sump oil pan.  I have always wondered just how fast it could go with modern heads, camshaft, and different gears.  Those were the days when we were young, foolish, and not scared of anything.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

TurboChris

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2023, 11:31:22 PM »
About 20 years ago I was making GREAT money. This was my garage for a time. I had the modded TT Porsche and bought and modded a 06 M5 (I've owned 4 different gen M5's) to replace it. Took a while to sell the Porsche so for about 6 months I had both. And a Shelby tribute Mustang (427 stroker) and a lifted 01 CC Powerstoke at the curb.

Yeah life was good.

My brother and I took a road trip and on the way I knew there was a perfect stretch of road (out past Barstow, CA) to stretch it's legs. I knew from seeing other similarly modded M5's that it was capable of just barely passing 200. So that was the goal.

We pulled over, waiting for a long clearing in traffic and then let her rip. My brother video'd it on his phone. We hit 186 and then caught an unexpected cross breeze that actually instantly moved us to the left about 3 or 4 ft. Kinda freaked me out and I let off......slowed to about 155-165 and hit it again... but after a few seconds realized that it was gonna take too long at that point to get the speed back.

That and I'd lost a bit of confidence anyways so we gave up on 200.

Fun day tho. Here's a screen shot from the highest readable speed from that run. And a pic of the garage/driveway.







« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 11:35:51 PM by TurboChris »
1966 Fairlane - 427 - Pond Block - Edelbrock - Tunnel Wedge

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2023, 10:39:05 AM »
thanks for all the replies and stories.i picked up a lot of good ideas from everyone.i was just wandering how safe my stock suspension is in a car with a engine thats capable of going a lot faster than the car was intended.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2023, 11:39:54 AM »
To pass some car on the highway really fast in your 66.
Alignment is the most important thing.
The best thing is to buy a gauge and set the chamber and caster and tow in the garage.
They are not that expensive and you will do just as good of an alignment as the kid
in the shop with the rack that needs 100 an hour just to pay the rent.
Use the cam locks on the lower control arms for extra safety.
The best ball joints you get and roller spring perches.
And pass that Kia. ;D

TomP

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2023, 10:14:24 PM »
 The car I learned to drive in was a green 66 Fairlane with several doors. Of course being 16 and having access to wheels meant trying it out... so on long straight Westham Island Road on my way home from pea combine driving job I floored it over the couple miles I had before the old wood bridge ... speedo showed 120. I was OK with that. Less OK with the car running worse and worse all the way home and the resultant driving banishment for pushing out both head gaskets on the 289.

Had my 67 Ranchero 390 to 140, old bias ply tires and 3.25 gears.

machoneman

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2023, 10:54:01 AM »
thanks for all the replies and stories.i picked up a lot of good ideas from everyone.i was just wandering how safe my stock suspension is in a car with a engine thats capable of going a lot faster than the car was intended.

Forgot to mention" my '70 Mach 1 has the rear lid spoiler, set at the same angle as the all-winning '70 Trans-Am Mustangs of yore. And yes, most cars need a rear spoiler even if the chin spoiler up front is huge and a pavement dragger. Live now near the famed Serbing, FL racetrack and all the early muscle cars have the same set-up to minimize under the car airflow and add downforce to the rear, even if it costs some top end speed (170 mph and up!). They must have a good reason!!!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 07:39:50 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

frnkeore

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2023, 02:29:33 PM »
When you lower a car, it increases air speed, under it.

It's the air speed differential that creates lift or down force. The faster side is the side that has reduced pressure, there for creating down force, the same way that the cambered fast back creates lift but the speed differential is created differently.

The fast back roof line is longer and the air has to travel faster to get to the same place and that creates lift.
Frank

Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2023, 03:39:22 PM »
Ken getting MAX lift.  ;D




Heo

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2023, 05:48:30 PM »
I remember one time when i jumped the Galaxie. Wife was late as usual, Speed was with the needle att gen light, like someone wrote here.
I jumped long and high with a hard landing, i heard something bouncing under the car from front out to the rear
I had sent one of the shims to driverside controlarm flying, The bolt must have stretched from the inpact enough for the shim to jump of
It was a long soft...how you say? depression in the road, The suspension bottomed out and rebound att the ridge
where the depression ended that made me airborn for a while



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cammerfe

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2023, 04:07:33 PM »
To add depth to the discussion about going fast, A friend and I decided to spectate where land speed racing was taking place. Since I live in Metro Detroit, I quickly discovered that it's about 1700 miles to Bonneville, and, because the group that had, in times past, used the low-tide sand on Daytona Beach before the speedway was built, ended-up using the WWII airport at Maxton, NC, we could watch one mile standing start racing on pavement  a thousand miles closer to home. I'd been told that one could do trial runs, at relatively low speeds, without much safety preparation, so I brought my helmet along, "Just in Case..." I found that the cut-off point for modern factory equipment is set at 125 MPH.

My daily driver, at the time, was an '02 Lincoln LS. For those who may be unfamiliar with that part of the Lincoln line, it was a re-bodied version of the small Jaguar sedans put together after Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Land Rover were acquired by FoMoCo. MY LS Sport came with Michelin Tires on 17 inch wheels, a 240 CID four-cam V8, and a slightly more agressive tune in the ECU that included a delete of the engine speed limiter. The factory speedometer read to 160. On our first trip to Maxton, I'd already put on a set of Michelin Pilot Sport P2s on 18 inch wheels and done a a fairly comprehensive re-tune of the ECU. Ignition timing, fuel delivery and automatic upshift speeds had already been altered, as well as transmission line pressure. I'd also installed a factory  trunk-lid spoiler Brother Lon had removed from something-or-other. I installed it at a much more agressive up-angle. With that much done I went out on a section of expressway that had never been connected properly in North West Metro Detroit. Although open to traffic, it ultimately only connects to two-lane and doesn't have an over-abundance of traffic. There were no other cars to be seen when I ran it up to 150 and found it to be absolutely rock-steady. On our first trip to Maxton, we found it easy to exceed the mandated 125 MPH in the measured mile.

Back home, I installed a full eight-point roll cage, a belly pan from the front all the way back to the rear-axle kick-up, removed the cats and gutted them and put in a full length 2.5 inch exhaust system to go with the new headers. I also installed a mandatory fire-supression foam generating system and a six-point comp seat-belt system. Elbow tethers on the mandatory fire-suit tied in to the belt to stop potential flopping if there were to be a mishap.

We redid trhe factory fuel system to enable the use of C16. I put a five gallon fuel cell in the trunk to hold methanol and a nitrous oxide spray system to go with the methanol. The ultimate result was a one mile standing start national record in 'E' Fuel Competition Coupe/Sedan at 140.106. The record still stands to this day.

I have a new car in the planning stages at present. The East Coast Timing Association is now operating in Arkansas.

KS


fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2023, 05:32:40 PM »
i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Heo

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2023, 06:10:05 PM »
I dont know but i had a 66 Fairlane with tired stock suspension.
Cleveland with 4 speed and autotrans reargear in the 80s.
Was when Volvo 240 turbo was new. Some kids in probably dads
240 Turbo tried to outrun me when i was trying to pass them
i was in third gear and folowed them to the Volvo did not go anny faster
pulled up besides them and shifted to 4th gear and left them
Topspeed on those Volvos was 190-195 kmh thats about 120 mph
so a bit faster than that is no problem stoping with the drumbrakes is another story ::)



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Posi67

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2023, 10:43:32 PM »
i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.

How much HP you have will dictate your MPH. I'm comfortable at 130-135 but after that not as brave as I once was. Just because you have a rolling start won't increase your top end because you still only have 1/4 mile to get there. If it was longer then you could sneak up on a few more MPH with the right gear.

Rory428

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2023, 10:37:15 AM »
i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.

How much HP you have will dictate your MPH. I'm comfortable at 130-135 but after that not as brave as I once was. Just because you have a rolling start won't increase your top end because you still only have 1/4 mile to get there. If it was longer then you could sneak up on a few more MPH with the right gear.
Dale, how fast was Jims 66 Fairlane in the 1/4 mile, about 150mph ? He didn`t have any wings or spoilers, neither does Grants 8 second 67 Fairlane, or Jim Van Cleves low 8 second 66 Fairlane. Grants 67 had different front suspension, but Jim & Jims 66s both still had the factory shock towers. As for "roll racing", just seems silly to me. I have always found the launch and first few gears the best part of drag racing. To me, a rolling start makes about as much sense as running 1/8th mile events on a 1/4 mile dragstrip.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

cammerfe

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2023, 01:51:01 PM »
At one time, here in Metro Detroit, there was a loosely configured group known as , 'The Top Enders.' They met at a Denny's just off of one exit of I-96, over on the west side of Detroit. Arrangements were made and the usual procedure was to go from a hundred up until one car quit.

In regard to land speed, it's of note that the two fastest street-driven cars in the world are both '05-'06 Ford GTs. The M2K car went 300.4 MPH in a measured mile in Texas a couple of years ago. A 'Gas-Monkey'-sponsored GT went just over 310 in a mile in Florida a few months ago. There have been claims of a bit more but they have not been done with proper measuring clocks and/or were done with a running start. For example a 'one-off' Bugatti Chiron was clocked at about 314 on the VW test track in Germany, but that car was doing about 200 when it got onto the mile+ straightaway and in the mile it only attained the extra 114 before having to shut off to be able to make the upcoming turn.

Both Ford GTs were running turbo'd versions of the original factory four-cam engine on methanol. It's estimated that both engines were making about 2500(+) horsepower at the rear wheels. I wonder how much it's going to take to go 350?

KS

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2023, 02:13:25 PM »
i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.

How much HP you have will dictate your MPH. I'm comfortable at 130-135 but after that not as brave as I once was. Just because you have a rolling start won't increase your top end because you still only have 1/4 mile to get there. If it was longer then you could sneak up on a few more MPH with the right gear.
seems like if you are already doing 40 at the start line,then you go another 1/4 mile that it would be a bigger mph than from a dig.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2023, 02:38:24 PM »
i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.

How much HP you have will dictate your MPH. I'm comfortable at 130-135 but after that not as brave as I once was. Just because you have a rolling start won't increase your top end because you still only have 1/4 mile to get there. If it was longer then you could sneak up on a few more MPH with the right gear.
Dale, how fast was Jims 66 Fairlane in the 1/4 mile, about 150mph ? He didn`t have any wings or spoilers, neither does Grants 8 second 67 Fairlane, or Jim Van Cleves low 8 second 66 Fairlane. Grants 67 had different front suspension, but Jim & Jims 66s both still had the factory shock towers. As for "roll racing", just seems silly to me. I have always found the launch and first few gears the best part of drag racing. To me, a rolling start makes about as much sense as running 1/8th mile events on a 1/4 mile dragstrip.
i love drag racing from a dead stop,i just wanted to give roll racing a try one time to check mph
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Posi67

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2023, 04:36:05 PM »



i was mostly talking about quarter mile speeds.i wont be doing any road course type stuff.just wondering what to expect if it goes a big mph in the 1/4.
[/quote]

How much HP you have will dictate your MPH. I'm comfortable at 130-135 but after that not as brave as I once was. Just because you have a rolling start won't increase your top end because you still only have 1/4 mile to get there. If it was longer then you could sneak up on a few more MPH with the right gear.
[/quote]seems like if you are already doing 40 at the start line,then you go another 1/4 mile that it would be a bigger mph than from a dig

Well. yes and no. If you have the HP and don't run out of RPM you "should" pick up some MPH but it won't be dramatic enough to worry about a chute or the suspension. My car will run 135 either way because it's out of power and RPM at that point.  If I run 104 MPH to the 1/8th I only pick up roughly 30 MPH to the 1/4. You're not going to gain 40 MPH just because that's where you started.

Nonetheless, it could be fun so go ahead and later post the results. I can always stand to learn something as well.   
[/quote]

TomP

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2023, 06:00:29 PM »
Consider that even a top fuel car will only pick up 50mph the last half of the track (Ig running 1/4 mile) and you sure won't be adding 40 mph to your normal drag strip speed, id guess less than 10 mph

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2023, 09:40:47 AM »
i was not expecting 40 mph more but if geared properly it should gain something. i watched a little of it and they did not gain a huge amount,seems like the quicker cars just gained 10 or 15,but if you had bad 60 foot times at the track but a big mph,seems like they could gain buy rolling start.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 09:45:59 AM by fryedaddy »
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new