FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 1966lanetp on July 14, 2021, 01:15:27 PM
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Hi. I’d love to get some advice from y’all about front suspension parts For a ‘66 Fairlane I’m doing some modifications to, I guess I ought to list some of them a sad it might make a difference on part selection.
465 SO Tunnelport ( at Lykins Motorsport waiting on pistons)
toploader
9” etc
I have new Caltracs, bars, mono and rear shocks just mounted.
I will drive the car occasionally on the street, I’m mainly interested in high speed stability, safety and weight transfer.
Opentracker products recommended to me are…
Roller spring perch’s, upper and lower control arms, steering kit with roller idle arm, double adjustable shocks and 6 cly. springs. I think that’s all on the list. I’m sure some of you have or are using their parts, how do you like it and would you do anything different?
Thanks in advance for any information!
Randy
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Add new strut rods with heim joints.
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don't have it installed yet on the '64 Fairlane, but I bought this kit
https://www.freakride.com/product/all-front-coil-over-conversion-systems/
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Wow! I’ve not seen this freakride stuff before. I’m assuming you’ve unboxed it? I was getting ready to order everything from open tracker, but this might be a better alternative. Thanks for the link! 1966lanetp, I’m currently fixing a 1967 Fairlane 511 f.e. top loader 9”. Sounds like we have similar goals.
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Hi. I’d love to get some advice from y’all about front suspension parts For a ‘66 Fairlane I’m doing some modifications to, I guess I ought to list some of them a sad it might make a difference on part selection.
465 SO Tunnelport ( at Lykins Motorsport waiting on pistons)
toploader
9” etc
I have new Caltracs, bars, mono and rear shocks just mounted.
I will drive the car occasionally on the street, I’m mainly interested in high speed stability, safety and weight transfer.
Opentracker products recommended to me are…
Roller spring perch’s, upper and lower control arms, steering kit with roller idle arm, double adjustable shocks and 6 cly. springs. I think that’s all on the list. I’m sure some of you have or are using their parts, how do you like it and would you do anything different?
Thanks in advance for any information!
Randy
I have Opentracker's roller spring perches (great parts!) and some other outfit's (forget who) roller idle arm.
I do think though the bolt-on kits (new arms, spindle, etc.) are neat but overkill and quite expensive. I'd also question the all-metal strut rod ends: clanking and the potential to break. If you live in an area with lots of rough roads and potholes, the OEM rubber bushings or even graphite impregnated, no squeak poly bushings might be a better idea.
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Wow! I’ve not seen this freakride stuff before. I’m assuming you’ve unboxed it? I was getting ready to order everything from open tracker, but this might be a better alternative. Thanks for the link! 1966lanetp, I’m currently fixing a 1967 Fairlane 511 f.e. top loader 9”. Sounds like we have similar goals.
Cool, maybe we can bounce ideas around.
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Hi. I’d love to get some advice from y’all about front suspension parts For a ‘66 Fairlane I’m doing some modifications to, I guess I ought to list some of them a sad it might make a difference on part selection.
465 SO Tunnelport ( at Lykins Motorsport waiting on pistons)
toploader
9” etc
I have new Caltracs, bars, mono and rear shocks just mounted.
I will drive the car occasionally on the street, I’m mainly interested in high speed stability, safety and weight transfer.
Opentracker products recommended to me are…
Roller spring perch’s, upper and lower control arms, steering kit with roller idle arm, double adjustable shocks and 6 cly. springs. I think that’s all on the list. I’m sure some of you have or are using their parts, how do you like it and would you do anything different?
Thanks in advance for any information!
Randy
I have Opentracker's roller spring perches (great parts!) and some other outfit's (forget who) roller idle arm.
I do think though the bolt-on kits (new arms, spindle, etc.) are neat but overkill and quite expensive. I'd also question the all-metal strut rod ends: clanking and the potential to break. If you live in an area with lots of rough roads and potholes, the OEM rubber bushings or even graphite impregnated, no squeak poly bushings might be a better idea.
I think he recommended the strut rods with delrin bushings, I’ll have to look back on the quote. Thanks
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I have some homemade flat upper shock plates, Opentracker bearing kit for the stock upper arms, Opentracker roller perches, Opentracker roller idler arm, Opentracker camber lock out kit, Global West tubular lower control arms, Global West tubular tie rod adjusting sleeves, homemade adjustable strut rods with heim joints, Shelby drop, and Calvert 90/10s.
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Jared that sounds like a great setup, I was tempted to do an IFS, I really want to make this car work without cutting it up any more. It seems the stock Eliminator guys go straight, and I know none of Dick Brannan’s cars got Morrison front clips. I like the idea of the factory rollerized components. I like the simplicity of the freakride parts, because you’re just done with it.
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I have some homemade flat upper shock plates, Opentracker bearing kit for the stock upper arms, Opentracker roller perches, Opentracker roller idler arm, Opentracker camber lock out kit, Global West tubular lower control arms, Global West tubular tie rod adjusting sleeves, homemade adjustable strut rods with heim joints, Shelby drop, and Calvert 90/10s.
Does your setup work good? Is it more for cornering or weight transfer? My plan is to build a retro type car, something that might have been built back in my day. But with better parts.
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Then you should get a copy of the "Boss 302 Chassis Manual"as written back then by Ford's engineers.
http://www.mustangtek.com/Library2/BOSS302ChassisMod.html
The front suspension parts used, long before rollerized parts were available (and maybe not legal back then) document how Ford race teams almost won the '69 Trans-Am championship but did win it all in '70. I used it as a guide for my '70 Mach 1 (and I did forget to mention my Dr. Gas camber lockout parts, PST graphite bushings everywhere and Heim joint end for the tie rod ends). The book (more like a pamphlet btw) also has great chassis weld-in mods for the shock towers, easy to do and well worthwhile and even roll cage dimensions if you like. Worth a look,
Oh, and last but not least, yes virtually all these parts do fit on a Fairlane since they share near mirror-image front suspensions.
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I installed new strut assys. from Chris Alston's Chassisworks (Total Control Products) in my '66. They've been on the car for several years now. I'd say they have helped control fore and aft movement a lot better than the original design but my dash rattles badly when going over certain bumps! For the rest of the parts I used Moog replacement lower arms, NOS Ford upper arms, Moog lower spring perches and a 1" sway bar. The sway bar made a night and day difference in cornering compared to the original which was about 5/8" as I recall.
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I do think though the bolt-on kits (new arms, spindle, etc.) are neat but overkill and quite expensive. I'd also question the all-metal strut rod ends: clanking and the potential to break. If you live in an area with lots of rough roads and potholes, the OEM rubber bushings or even graphite impregnated, no squeak poly bushings might be a better idea.
Have been bracket racing the Falcon (and her Mustang before we sold it) for around 18 years - have broken two strut rods with poly bushings during that time. One on the track at the 60' cone - fortunately - and one - also fortunately - in the pits. SO update the rods if possible and put up with any noise. Yes, I'm still running on strut rods but will be looking to update with a coil over kit when all this other $$$$ crap we have to dump money on washes away.
My larger issue is that I really need a full front kit - front steer rack, etc and not just coil overs. So I hesitate to dump $2000+ on just a coil over when I should put $4000+ in the car.
For any track work especially drag racing you'd want adjustable shocks on both ends, especially the front. So that $1999 kit has some really good parts, apparently.
All that said - my drag setup is 90/10 CEs in front, Moroso Trick springs, 1" upper arm drop, stock re-inforced upper control arm, stock lower arm with poly, poly spring perch bushing conversion, Cal Tracks and adjustable Ranchos in the back - front spring eye bushings are aluminum parts, rear poly shackle bushings. Never saw the need for the roller items.
PS FWIW - as a tech guy, I find fault with Vi-King for having a web page built in 2015 that still has "under construction" and their online catalog relies on Flash, which has been long retired due to security issues. A shabby online presence doesn't reflect well on the business.
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For a street/ drag car OpenTrackers roller perch, roller lower control arm and strut rod bearing or ball conversion at the least will give the best bang for the buck as far as feel and performance.
The spring perch frees up the spring and shock , you will feel the difference.
The roller lower control arm bushing and strut rod work together . They free up the bind from the lower bushing and allow more caster to be dialed into the suspension .
Add the 1” upper control arm drop , good (not KYB) shocks, they are too harsh in compression and light in rebound, Bilstein Sport in front,streets in the back (for a driver) and a 1” front sway bar and you will have a great driver set up.
If you want to lean more to drag racing use a stock (small lol) sway bar and an adjustable shock.
When you have it aligned tell them (demand) 0 Camber (+0/ -1/2) both sides the same! Caster ,manual steering +3 1/2 Power steering + 4 ( up to 5 1/2 if tire does not eat the front of the fender) again both sides the same. Toe easy, 1/8” in.
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Agree on the caster settings, I shoot for at least 2 1/2 degrees on the drag cars. However, I have not been able to dial that in with stock bushings. Always have to switch to the poly units to get more adjustment travel.
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That’s the reason for the roller lower control arm and some type of free movement on the strut rod. No bind.
You can add 1/4” of shim to the forward upper control arm bolt to preset caster without binding the lower control arm. Don’t go more shim unless you have soft upper shock bushings or bearing. IIRC the Fairlane uses a stud upper shock so again a softer bushing.
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Thanks for all the great advice, I just got off the phone with Control Freak, sounds like a pretty good option. Reasonable price, easily assembled, with a lot of adjustments. What do you guys think of their products? I’m leaning that way. Going to get the car corner weights next Tuesday to determine spring rates.
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I’m leaning towards them as well. I love the idea of the open tracker products, but it appears you’ll spend at least the same money as the control freak parts. I don’t see the roller uppers on the open tracker web sight either. Only the Cheater set up.
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“Cheater” is the uppers.
Roller spring perch bolts to the upper control arm.
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Correct, they also have a control arm that uses a roller bearing at the pivot instead of a bushing if I’m not mistaken.
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Jared that sounds like a great setup, I was tempted to do an IFS, I really want to make this car work without cutting it up any more. It seems the stock Eliminator guys go straight, and I know none of Dick Brannan’s cars got Morrison front clips. I like the idea of the factory rollerized components. I like the simplicity of the freakride parts, because you’re just done with it.
Thanks. I'm somewhat old school and I liked the idea of stock suspension, so I went this route and there are plenty other guys out there making it work.
I have some homemade flat upper shock plates, Opentracker bearing kit for the stock upper arms, Opentracker roller perches, Opentracker roller idler arm, Opentracker camber lock out kit, Global West tubular lower control arms, Global West tubular tie rod adjusting sleeves, homemade adjustable strut rods with heim joints, Shelby drop, and Calvert 90/10s.
Does your setup work good? Is it more for cornering or weight transfer? My plan is to build a retro type car, something that might have been built back in my day. But with better parts.
It works alright. That's one of the things I was working on last year. I made it to the dragstrip the last two weekends they were open to test the new setup. I had 50/50 shocks in it because one of my other 90/10 shocks went bad, but now I have a new set. I also have stock replacement big block springs that have been in the car for a long time and have been trimmed down a little for ride height. I am still going to try another set of front springs and see if it helps. I didn't mention, but I am not running the sway bar either. The car is setup for street/strip and not too concerned with cornering, especially when I drive to the track on slicks...
I don’t see the roller uppers on the open tracker web sight either. Only the Cheater set up.
I bought their bearing kit and just installed it myself. It's not a very difficult job if you have a welder.
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I have had no direct interaction with the 'Freakride' group mentioned above, but have had experience in modifying the sort of front suspension discussed here. My reaction is to observe that 'Freakride' has a substantial amount of 'puffery' in their advertising. I'll just leave it at that unless someone has specific questions. Personally, I'd be leery of their offerings.
KS
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Pm sent to cammerfe
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PM messages are piling up so let me comment here. The usual aftermarket A-arms seem to go for significantly more than $100. Circle track suppliers---circle track cars often damage suspension components---offer a plethora of suspension arms in various dimensions. Some can be had for less than $50. They probably won't be quite so pretty, but you can do a lot with a file and so on to clean up any weld "Un-neatness" and epoxy paint will work wonders. Good quality Heim ends and lock nuts will finish things off. And if you have access to a welder, other components can be easily assembled.
KS
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My reaction is to observe that 'Freakride' has a substantial amount of 'puffery' in their advertising. I'll just leave it at that unless someone has specific questions. Personally, I'd be leery of their offerings.
KS
Same here. I also don't like that you can't even see a 'real' picture of their products, but rather they offer a CAD computer image. Sorry, but I want to actually SEE what I'm buying, not what they want it to look like. That seems dishonest at best.
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PM messages are piling up so let me comment here. The usual aftermarket A-arms seem to go for significantly more than $100. Circle track suppliers---circle track cars often damage suspension components---offer a plethora of suspension arms in various dimensions. Some can be had for less than $50. They probably won't be quite so pretty, but you can do a lot with a file and so on to clean up any weld "Un-neatness" and epoxy paint will work wonders. Good quality Heim ends and lock nuts will finish things off. And if you have access to a welder, other components can be easily assembled.
KS
Thanks, although I could and have before fabricate a front suspension, I have no desire if I can buy and bolt on a decent one. However I may modify the shock towers for more strength and header clearance, but not till I do the engine swap. I still have the 445 in the car.
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My reaction is to observe that 'Freakride' has a substantial amount of 'puffery' in their advertising. I'll just leave it at that unless someone has specific questions. Personally, I'd be leery of their offerings.
KS
Same here. I also don't like that you can't even see a 'real' picture of their products, but rather they offer a CAD computer image. Sorry, but I want to actually SEE what I'm buying, not what they want it to look like. That seems dishonest at best.
That makes a lot of sense! I talked to them Friday, they said they would reach out to some of their customers with Fairlanes and email some pictures and testimony. We’ll see if they follow through. I’m not in any hurry.
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that contorl freak front suspension kit looks to be a fair deal with the viking coil overs.those are not cheap by them selfs.also,a lot of adjustment in the upper control arms,so no more shimming.i would have bought that a few years ago,if i didnt modify my 64 front suspesion so much already.
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My reaction is to observe that 'Freakride' has a substantial amount of 'puffery' in their advertising. I'll just leave it at that unless someone has specific questions. Personally, I'd be leery of their offerings.
KS
Same here. I also don't like that you can't even see a 'real' picture of their products, but rather they offer a CAD computer image. Sorry, but I want to actually SEE what I'm buying, not what they want it to look like. That seems dishonest at best.
I like being able to see them also and for a stocker they must be "stock appearing" Opentracker was about my only choice
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mike7570,not to change the subject,but how do the wilwood brakes work for you?manual brake master cylinder?have you tried them on the street or track?
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I’d also like to know what you think about your brakes as that is next on my list
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Willwoods are manual 4 wheel disc with Willwood master cylinder. Stops really well right now (no engine ;D) waiting on a few more custom parts.
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trying again, looks like this did not post the first time
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Thanks for the photos! It looks like quality parts.
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Wait a minute, those look NOTHING like what their "picture" shows. Where is the adjustability for the upper control arm?
Direct quote from their website: "The upper control arm is fully adjustable and can provide up to 5 degrees of positive caster on most cars."
So what's the deal here? Is there a cheaper option that I don't see, or are they just full of BS?
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Wait a minute, those look NOTHING like what their "picture" shows. Where is the adjustability for the upper control arm?
Direct quote from their website: "The upper control arm is fully adjustable and can provide up to 5 degrees of positive caster on most cars."
So what's the deal here? Is there a cheaper option that I don't see, or are they just full of BS?
Good point! On other supplier's sites, the tubular part of the uppers are threaded to allow in/out adjustments. The depicted uppers are welded and offer no said adjustment. What is up here?
Like these posted only for the look: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-92254?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwos-HBhB3EiwAe4xM93nSn5PBodKxdT7HZxib3g_eB_RzLhGub-kwrT323kCGtYvvZ52cexoCHLAQAvD_BwE
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Wow! Definitely not what the cad drawings depict!
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bought mine sevreal years ago, may have updated/upgraded the parts
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I’m back to Total control products I think.
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I took the Fairlane in to alignment shop and had the steering components checked and the car corner weights measured. Steering components were tight and not worn out.
Car weighs 3477# ( big block, 4speed, no power anything, battery is in trunk passenger side).
LF 1002#. LR 738#
RF 948#. RR 789#
Is this about right for the ‘66 ?
Thanks
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I was reading the control freak suspensions installation instructions, they suggest in that document the upper control arms are adjustable, and use 5/8 rod ends. If that’s the case, I think I’m open minded to their product again. I guess I’ll try calling them, or chatting their tech dept.
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another good suspension set-up i like -strong & can make room down sizeing shocktower is gateway performance suspension systems -strut set up with options-stronger wheel bearings-late-mod spindle i believe near detroit mich - good web site
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one other thing on different front end changes possible header/oil pan fitting issues to watch/price etc.