Felony head vs Pond Head FE

[CaptCobrajet]

Yeah, she knows it.  Too much Johnny Cash music has made me what I am, LOL.

[cjshaker]

  If it's because I'm stupid, then I need to learn more and try harder.  Nothing wrong with that.

I have nothing of value to add to the conversation except to inject a little reality into what Brent says here.

I know it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but unless you have the opportunity to refine combinations with people willing to dump money into their engine combination, in the interest of becoming "the best", the learning process is a very long and tedious process at BEST. That hardly makes you stupid. If you can build an engine better than 90% of the people out there, that's still 1 in 10 that can beat it. From a serious builders prospective that would be extremely frustrating, even though in reality you still may be one of the best.

Some guys are mentored by the best in specific engines. That's something that's nearly impossible to compete with because they are building on years of cumulative experience. I swear some guys can think like an engine.

And then there's people like me

[Drew Pojedinec]

Guess I'm just lucky.  The engines I build don't have dynos big enough for them.

(Maybe they do, but we've never used one)

[blykins]

I have been blessed with some really good customers.  I'm on the 3rd iteration of a particular Tunnel Port build, whose owner has been extremely generous and gracious in letting me play.  Going from iteration 1 to iteration 2 basically bumped 100 hp, so he's getting the good end of the R&D. 

You are certainly correct though, if it were not for customers like the one I just mentioned, we are basically waiting for similar engine builds to come around, where we can change a specific part, like a camshaft, valve job, ring pack, etc. and see what the gains may be.  Blair gets the good end of the stick here, as he will give a customer an engine, then when he gets it back for freshening, he can do some analysis and see what can be changed.  It is more of a longer process for Barry and myself....we get to play with race engines, just not as much. 

I'm trying to come up with a couple of dyno mules so I can beat on them without worry...that's an excellent way of gaining data.  Data is good. 

[ec164]

IMHO   I don't think you need to have a race engine to take apart and study. Why not after break in and some serious effort on the dyno, take apart a 500 or 600 HP piece to study whats going on, do it in the evening leave phone off computer off and just sit back and take it all in, "think like an engine" as Doug said, learn from what you have, don't wait for another iteration or race engine. It's like paying for College at home just cheaper, a gasket set, some parts cleaner, fuel for the pump to see if it worked, and your time! Put your favorite music on soft for thinking even if it's not Johnny Cash
Then don't tell what you find just keep applying it and look for more, your numbers will climb!!.....................Al

[fekbmax]

Personally I think its great that a few of the great Fe engine builders reveal there dyno results and share to a certain extent there combination's . I realize that of course there going to maybe hold back a bit on some of the specks and I totally get it because they do put countless hours into research and development and its understandable that they wouldn't want to reveal every little trick and parts modification.  I think theres alot to be learned from what they do share though. I have countless amounts of articles from the 80's and 90's that Jim Kuntz and Keith Craft did and before the information overload of the internet that's pretty much all I had. Lots of phone conversations with Ron Miller and Jim Dove , both guys that have alot of knowledge but were not always the easiest guys to work with but back then that's what we had. Like them or not, they have a important place in keeping the FE alive back then. I been so mad at both of them i could spit fire but also i learned someting from them and had been lucky enough to get a few decent products from them. The new age of technology has opened up doors and contacts that back then I never had and I'm grateful for it but ill never forget those old Kuntz n Craft articles and everything I learned from them. All proven stuff .. Now theres the opportunity to see and hear about all these other great FE builders old and new, some that have been around carrying the FE torch that I just didn't know about. I was kinda late to the internet party anyway lol . Its always exciting to learn from them all. This is a great site and theres alot of good honest people with honest opinions and agree or disagree I think we are all very lucky to have all the information shared so freely. . I'm just a garage builder but my passion is FE and I have built many of them over the past 35 years and taken every tip and secrets that I can get and applied to them and have had good sauces with reliability and power.. How cool is it that the first Fe I ever built completely on my own was a 1963 406 back in 1980 when I was 15 working out of a old 10'x12' steel she ad.
I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm saying is I want to thank all you guys for all you do for the FE. No matter it be a street cruiser or a hot rod beast or all out race engines which is what I'm most intrested in.. you guys are great.
 And Jay,  FE power .net kicks ass...

[Faron]

Sorry Jay I guess I should of said after 38+ years of Drag racing , I know when the Engine made more power , over the fact of weather conditions , I have been in Races where it was 9 rounds to win , AND I won , I am NOT a closet Racer , My Old Blown combo had over 1000 , thats right 1000 1/4 mile passes , I know what weather and track conditions are ( as i have told many BSD is .25-.30 slower than most ) but thanks for pointing that out You probably did NOT know that about me , and thats ok , I still consider you a Friend , My shoulders are Wide LOL  , this thread is what a forum is about , if all agreed , no one would post 

[Barry_R]

We all like this old motor - that's what unites us.
We are also all competitors - that's what get us up in the morning and working at getting better every day.
If we did not share a high degree of pride in our work, and strive for position we'd be selling vacuum cleaners or curtains...
This is not like the LS or small block forums - ain't no keyboard posers here.
But we do have "attitude" - we have to in order to succeed.
We can and do all get along and still poke at each other from time to time.
Its what racers do.

I'm an old Detroit area street racer and have a bazillion passes playing bracket racer as well.  Never ran a heads up type NHRA class though.  Faron - I'll betcha I might have even more passes on that old black Torino than you do .  Ran that sucker every day that the old Detroit Dragway was open for over ten years - sometimes they ran two or three nights per week.  Did the Division 3 bracket finals eight times IIRC.  I literally lived for that stuff.  And then I dragged it out on the street after the track was done for the evening and sprayed it through the night.  I think I singlehandedly kept many places solvent as I went through a LOT of parts learning my way.

[Faron]

You Might Barry, but ----- , I raced it in points series for 10 Plus Years in those 1996-2010, AND Street Driving , My point was not to say I have the most , just to point out ,I know combos and HP vs Weather changes , the Blower combo was just one of the combos in the car 1996-2010, BUt I have had the car since 1978 and it was raced from 1978-2010 , the 1000 passes was just on the LAST combo  and I am glad we have a FE Family , not all family gets along , all the time , BUT we are Family 

[ScotiaFE]

Ya' well Bucky has a really big screw driver.

[blykins]

IMHO   I don't think you need to have a race engine to take apart and study. Why not after break in and some serious effort on the dyno, take apart a 500 or 600 HP piece to study whats going on, do it in the evening leave phone off computer off and just sit back and take it all in, "think like an engine" as Doug said, learn from what you have, don't wait for another iteration or race engine. It's like paying for College at home just cheaper, a gasket set, some parts cleaner, fuel for the pump to see if it worked, and your time! Put your favorite music on soft for thinking even if it's not Johnny Cash
Then don't tell what you find just keep applying it and look for more, your numbers will climb!!.....................Al

I wish it were that simple, and it probably was a decade or so ago.   When you have 8-10 orders stacked up, with each customer calling to remind you that you're on a timeline, it's just not feasible (at least not for me anyway) to take time out and tear an engine back down. 

A lot of data comes from the dyno....horsepower, torque, how much jet a particular combination required, how the engine accelerated on the dyno, where the valve springs gave up, etc.  I can get by pretty well on that.  The data that comes from a teardown revolves around longevity....if a particular part needed more clearance, making sure things weren't "moving around", etc. 

[cjshaker]

Ya' well Bucky has a really big screw driver.

Lmao, Howie!! I'm giving you a score of 9.8 on that post.

[57 lima bean]

I tried to convince a racer that going through the traps on the rev limiter was not a good thing and to degear the car abit.He said thats where the engine made its peak power and it was only a 100 feet or so from the finish line.Telling this racer that a combo very close to mine was degeared three times with good results.I started with the gear they ended up with.Well.....we both ended up wreck'n stuff.Lord only knows what the over gear racer is do'n now.

[cammerfe]

I can learn more from just paying attention to this sort of bench racing than from most any other sort of input.

My thanks to all of you.

KS

[BigBlockFE]

Barry do you use your head now for most builds if the customer wants or do you still use the E head ported for certain builds, does it just matter what engine your trying to build or is your head ported superior to all E heads ported...