FE Power Cylinder Heads

[ec164]

As the exhaust port is currently configured, they will not fit a shock tower car unless you cut the shock towers back somewhat.  I plan to do this on my 68 Mustang, first by installing coil over shocks (which will be significantly smaller in diameter than the normal springs), and then trimming the towers for header clearance.  My arm is being twisted by some folks to do a version of this head with the normal FE exhaust port location, so that shock tower surgery is not required and existing headers will fit, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that or not.  So many people cut the shock towers on their cars, and there are so many kits out there to convert to a different front suspension, that I'm not sure it makes sense to offer a set of these heads with the stock exhaust location; the exhaust port efficiency would be way down if I had to do that.  On the other hand, I sure would like to put a set of these heads on my 68 Shelby and my 69 Mach 1, and I'm certainly not going to cut the shock towers on those cars, so I'm waffling a bit on this...

I kept my shock towers and used the coil-over shocks with factory type control arms, and OEM steering, plugs are easy with valve covers off, headers are custom but on and off easily! I'm thinking a 68' Mustang would be pretty nice with the coil-over setup, considering it's probably 2" wider than a 64' Comet.                           Al

[mike7570]

A little blurry but an un-cluttered engine compartment view of my TP in a 67 mustang. Just a reminder what the shock tower guys are dealing with.

[Bolted to Floor]

That’s a nice hunk of aluminum you got there Jay.   

Just imagine 700-900 HP under the hood of a Mustang, that would be a wild ride!!! The hood may be stock along with the front suspension, but the rest of the drivetrain and rear suspension would require some attention and a few aftermarket parts!!   

How fast would 700 HP push you through the 1/4 mile in a properly prepped car? I have no idea. At what point is a cage required? This starts getting past the point of bolt on modifications that are easily reversed. I don’t see the Mustangs and Fairlanes built with 427’s & 428’s as the buying market. A 390 car, maybe. The 6 cylinder and small block cars would be dam good candidates.

I won’t cut the towers in my car to make use of the heads. It has enough power to get me in trouble as it is.

I don’t know that marketing a head for unmodified shock towers is worth the effort. A couple of sets for yourself to test the usefulness might be worthwhile.  Just my 2 cents. 

[Heo]

Its not that hard to install new shocktowers, if one cut
the ones on the car. Hardest part is to copy the ugly
factory welds to the framerail
 Not that i would cut them on a Shelby or another rare
car with good towers , but they are often
cracked or rusty if you give them a thourough inspection

[cammerfe]

Brother Lon's '67 Mustang was quite plain jane for a 390 car. We put a 427 TP in it when it was less than a year old, and re-worked it rather thoroughly over the years. We ultimately put a set of Dove TP heads on a 452 inch engine. The exhaust runners pointed UP at about a 45-50 degree angle and required custom headers. We removed the towers and moved everything necessary to give un-impeded exhaust flow. The ultimate combination used a pair of EFI throttle-bodies on a LeMans dual-plane intake manifold. He ultimately sold the car to a guy in New Zealand. I'm not under the impression that the price suffered at all because of the modifications. Just sayin'.

KS

[jayb]

How fast would 700 HP push you through the 1/4 mile in a properly prepped car? I have no idea. At what point is a cage required?

In 2005 my Mach 1 with its 706 HP FE ran as fast as 10.55.  It would have gone faster with a higher stall converter.  The car had good street manners, but not great throttle response and it idled around 1100 RPM.  It needed race gas at the track, but would run on pump premium on the street if you kept your foot out of it.  It was fast, but there were a lot of compromises to get that performance.  I'm hoping that my heads and crossram EFI intake will reduce the cam and compression requirements to get the same performance, and lead to much better drivability.

You can run up to 10 flat and 135 MPH with an NHRA legal roll bar; a cage is not required until you go faster than that.  Don Fotti's 68-1/2 original CJ car manages to run 10s without even a roll bar.  Don must really know how to schmooze the tech guys 

[cjshaker]

Cut shock towers decreases value?
I would think that if it’s done well it’s be desired.
Kinda like I view front discs and a dual master cylinder to be an upgrade on my Galaxie, certainly not a negative.

(This was a question, I do t own a shock tower car, so curious)

It's because the people who pay the big bucks for the cars typically want them in "as built" condition. So unless it's a highly modified touring car, with top notch workmanship and parts, it'll always be worth more when they're built as 100% original, or at least 'as it came from the factory'. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is

Brother Lon's '67 Mustang was quite plain jane for a 390 car. We put a 427 TP in it when it was less than a year old, and re-worked it rather thoroughly over the years. We ultimately put a set of Dove TP heads on a 452 inch engine. The exhaust runners pointed UP at about a 45-50 degree angle and required custom headers. We removed the towers and moved everything necessary to give un-impeded exhaust flow. The ultimate combination used a pair of EFI throttle-bodies on a LeMans dual-plane intake manifold. He ultimately sold the car to a guy in New Zealand. I'm not under the impression that the price suffered at all because of the modifications. Just sayin'.

KS

There's a big difference between a '67 P code, and a '69/'70 R code. Same as if it were a true '68 1/2 CJ; if it were modified, it's gonna affect the value. Putting a Dove headed, fuel injected 427 TP in a P code car would likely offset any lost value compared to a hum-drum 390. Not a valid comparison to the highly sought after Cobra Jet cars.

[Stangman]

Doug do you have the original motor for your car. My car was an original 289 car and I’m still not cutting the towers. I believe even in a regular car like mine removing the tower hurts resale, not like I’m gonna sell it. And it’s just my opinion. If I was going to look at a car and it was cut up like that you wouldn’t know if they short cut something or oh that’s good enough. Most of us on the forum do it one way which is usually not a short cut. I’ve been a mechanic a long time I’ve seen some Really butchered stuff.

[cjshaker]

Joe, no I do not. I have some of the parts, like the R-code hood and shaker assembly, along with a few external engine parts, but none of the actual engine pieces. I've never even ran a 428, to be honest. Just never had the chance to purchase a good engine. So it would be pretty expensive for me to even consider going back to original.

[shady]

Man, I don't know about original value anymore. Watching the latest B-J the resto-mod stuff is getting nutty. I watched a concourse restored show winner '62 Vette hammer over $100k & next up was another '62 Vette resto-mod that did more money than the original one. I couldn't believe it. I think the original stuff is cooling off, kinda going the way of the model A.  The few R Galaxies I saw were in the $50s. Heck they were doing more than that ten years ago.

[Stangman]

Doug I have a shaker assembly, the top aint to bad the air cleaner assembly needs a redo what are they worth. I think it was off my uncles 69 r code.

[Joe-JDC]

Sadly, many of our valuable vehicles are going to lose a lot of value after the baby boomers quit buying and driving them.  My sons and grandson are not nearly as interested in my toys as I had hoped, and they are not unusual.  Many of my friends are experiencing the same issues with no one to buy/restore/or appreciate these older vehicles.  The gasoline issue is killing so many carburetors that it is becoming the most common problem on forums that I am involved with.  Fuel injection is not a cost effective option for many folks who are diehard old timers.  Joe-JDC

[machoneman]

Sadly, many of our valuable vehicles are going to lose a lot of value after the baby boomers quit buying and driving them.  My sons and grandson are not nearly as interested in my toys as I had hoped, and they are not unusual.  Many of my friends are experiencing the same issues with no one to buy/restore/or appreciate these older vehicles.  The gasoline issue is killing so many carburetors that it is becoming the most common problem on forums that I am involved with.  Fuel injection is not a cost effective option for many folks who are diehard old timers.  Joe-JDC

Joe, just look back one or two generations and it's even worse. Owners of Model T's, A's and other run-of-the mill pre-WWII cars are already, I'm told, having a bitch of a time. No one wants to pay for cars that can't even keep up on the highway, have tires and rims no local shops will touch, etc. Our muscle car era cars will someday suffer the same fates yet I think it's quite a few years off. Hey, at least your grandson and sons can drive a muscle car. Try to teach them to drive a really old Ford with all those pedals on the floor in a creaky, windy and frankly very slow car and they will run away!

[Drew Pojedinec]

It's because the people who pay the big bucks for the cars typically want them in "as built" condition. So unless it's a highly modified touring car, with top notch workmanship and parts, it'll always be worth more when they're built as 100% original, or at least 'as it came from the factory'. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is

Cool, thanks for the input.  I'm not really an "original" car kinda guy, so I didn't know.
Makes sense tho.

[cjshaker]

I'm not an "original" kind of guy either. There is plenty about my car that is nowhere near original, and I don't care, but I always hated the idea of butchering it beyond where it could be returned. That idea bothers me less and less each passing year though 

Yes, the big resto-mods are getting some big money, but they are usually high end stuff that COSTS big money. I seriously doubt that people are making money on a lot of them, except for the fabrication shops doing the work for big spenders.

And I agree, the value has dropped significantly, and will probably continue to do so. Lots of reasons for that, but basically the younger generation has less interest in them. Heck, the new family sedan will blow the doors off most older 'performance' cars, so why bother spending big money on an inferior car? The same goes for lots of areas that I love, like vintage aircraft and steam engines. Finding volunteers or people with money that are willing to maintain those parts of history are going to be disappearing over the next generation. Right now, vintage aviation is peaking because the current millionaires willing to plunk down the cash on their boyhood dreams are at the right age, with money to burn, and boy does it take a LOT of money! When the next generation comes along, the interest probably won't be there to support it. Then we'll just be looking at them in museums.

Joe, I'm not up on values of that stuff. Last I saw, complete Mustang shaker assemblies were bringing $3000+, but that's complete, original units. Lots of details go into that to make a system "complete" though, and some parts are near impossible to find. But now you can buy everything reproduction, so I imagine that's killed a lot of the value that they used to have.