Author Topic: 545" High Riser Build  (Read 184666 times)

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jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #240 on: August 04, 2012, 11:46:12 PM »
Unfortunately I didn't get much of a chance to get at the wiring on the EFI system until Saturday, and I also found on Friday night that I did not have the complete wiring harness for the MS3X!  I caught Scott at home before he left to come up here on Friday and he saved me with the correct wiring harness, that he had in stock.  Scott, BradFORD and I spent all day today wiring the engine, and after a couple of false starts finally got it going at 11:00 PM tonight.  It is missing on number 2, and the cam target is phased incorrectly, but we are confident we can get those problems solved tomorrow morning.  Should be making power pulls by noon tomorrow.  I plan to take the engine as high as 8500 RPM if it is still making power up there.  I will post some dyno numbers tomorrow night, barring any unforeseen problems.  Below are some photos of the engine on the dyno, showing the rats nest of wiring including 8 O2 sensors, one for each header primary - Jay



Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #241 on: August 05, 2012, 01:20:51 PM »
Update Sunday 1:15 - Our dead #2 cylinder was due to a stuck fuel injector.  No big deal, I thought, but over three hours of work on the injector has so far failed to free it up.  We have soaked it in injector cleaner, lacquer thinner, and acetone, put 125 psi air into it to try to free it up, and hit it with screwdrivers and drifts to try to shock it back to life.  So far no go.  We have now decided to go back to the low impedance injectors just to run the engine through some pulls.  Because of this we had to go to bank fire mode on the Megasquirt controller, so our hopes of individual cylinder tuning have gone out the window.  Right now we're just hoping to get some decent power pulls by the end of the day.  I'll post more later tonight - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-jdc

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #242 on: August 05, 2012, 04:00:00 PM »
Do you ever do anything the EASY way?  LOL,  I am amazed at some of the glitches you run into, and yet you still keep on going.  Hope it works for you.  Are 2 Dominators are looking tempting, yet?   ;D Joe-JDC.

fetorino

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #243 on: August 05, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »
How about two of these?


My427stang

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #244 on: August 05, 2012, 06:25:46 PM »
We are all eagerly waiting :)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

philminotti

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #245 on: August 05, 2012, 08:04:45 PM »
C'mon Joe!  Progress marches on lol!  I'm using a Victor you ported for me for my port injected 482! Carbs are poorly controlled fuel leaks after all ;)

Joe-jdc

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #246 on: August 05, 2012, 08:21:13 PM »
Yeah, but they are almost "goof proof" ::) I just witnessed a Dominator on the dyno pick up several HP over a very well tuned 750 Holley.   Sometimes the simple things work, and we don't always need to re-invent the wheel.  I like EFI, but carbs are so easy, I just prefer them for racing.  Joe-JDC.

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #247 on: August 05, 2012, 09:58:14 PM »
As usual, nothing is easy with this stuff, and we struggled for most of the day dealing with the aforementioned injector, and then with some other issues, but finally we started making pulls on the motor around 3:00 PM.  This was with the motor set up like an ems-pro, in bank fire mode rather than full sequential.  We ran the first pull from 3500 to 5000, and the engine was really rich, so we dialed it down over the next couple pulls and came in around 600 HP at 5000 RPM.  One thing I noticed was the vacuum in the crankcase was nowhere near what I expected; the Peterson pump has two vacuum stages pulling from each valve cover, but the most vacuum I recorded in the crankcase during the dyno pulls was only about 6 inches.  I think I must have a leak in the crankcase seal somewhere; usually you see this around the distributor seal but of course there is no distributor, so it must be leaking from somewhere else.  I need to solve this problem before the engine goes in the car; I'd like to be running around 15" when I'm going down the track, and that would pick up some HP too.  I'll pressure check the crankcase this week to try to find it.

The other issue was the engine would not idle below around 1800 RPM, but I think I know what the problem is with that.  After building the upper sheet metal intake, I had never leak checked it.  I'm pretty sure that when I do that I'll find some minor leaks in the welded areas, and after I seal those up the idle should come down.  Just last week I machined the plate I need to bolt to the top of the manifold and seal the top of the plenum, so I'll pressure check that this week too.

From the original RPM range we increased in 500 RPM increments up to 7000.  The engine made 650 HP at 5000, 725 HP at 5500, and 780 at 6000.  We were making A/F adjustments all the way and running just a little bit rich.  The power curve flattened out in the mid 6000 RPM range, but looked to be on the rise at 7000 RPM and I thought the engine was getting its second wind; here's the data:



The last data point in the dyno graph is always a little suspect, and that was the case here.  After further tuning and running all the way to 7800 RPM it was clear that the engine was going to peak around 7000 RPM.  The power band of the engine is clearly in the 6000 to 8000 RPM range.  We ran a total of 18 pulls on the engine today, and the last two were with the dyno exhaust system disconnected.  This engine didn't pick up power like my 519" SOHC did with the exhaust disconnected; we richened it up somewhat after the first pull with no exhaust system, but it didn't appear to improve the power of the engine any, so we left it as it was.  Here's a graph of the final dyno data:



So the engine peaked at 851 HP, which is just about where I'd expected it to be.  I think if the crankcase vacuum was up where it should be and we'd had the opportunity to do individual cylinder tuning, it may have made 875 HP, but I don't think its good for 900.  In any case, though, I have the data I need to order the rear end gears for the car and the converter for the trans tomorrow, and I have a little time to try to tweak the performance of the engine somewhat over the next week.  Here's a couple of videos of the dyno sessions, one from inside the dyno room and one from the dyno operator's perspective.

http://youtu.be/Ih3PvCgc_Jc

http://youtu.be/fy2MS3W_tVc

If I get further dyno information on this engine before I pull it off the dyno and put it in the car, I'll post it here.  Finally, thanks to all the members for the encouragment on this engine build; it was fun to share the build and the results with you guys - Jay


« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 10:02:17 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fetorino

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #248 on: August 05, 2012, 11:56:35 PM »
Hard fought hp there. 

At least this year you have some time to sort things out before Drag week.  I bet you find the 20+hp sealing the crankcase leak and with some more injector tuning.

KMcCullah

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #249 on: August 06, 2012, 10:12:12 AM »
850 HP is very respectable. Your R code is gonna haul the mail!
Kevin McCullah


My427stang

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #250 on: August 06, 2012, 10:56:24 AM »
Jay, are you going to try to go back to SEFI, or stick with the batch fire?

I doubt you'll find any peak power, but you may find some drivability.

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

WConley

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #251 on: August 06, 2012, 11:34:52 AM »
Sorry to hear about the troubles Jay.

Best of luck fixing the intake leaks.  Hopefully you can get some individual cylinder tuning done to pick up driveabilty and a few ponies.

- Bill
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

Hemi Joel

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #252 on: August 06, 2012, 02:55:23 PM »
That motor is a beast! At 7000+ rpm it sounds like 100,000 killer bees attacking the microphones at a rock concert.  Good job Jay!

afret

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #253 on: August 06, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »
Congrats on the build.  That thing is a monster and I'm sure there's a lot left in it.   :)

ScotiaFE

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #254 on: August 06, 2012, 05:57:32 PM »
Another outstanding build.
You da man...