FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 428Marauder on January 18, 2024, 05:25:46 AM
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Have a 428 with a C6. Starter went out, I had a mechanic put a new one in, new starter ate the flywheel. Now at different mechanic, been held up for weeks because new mechanic seems sure it should have a block plate and it doesn’t. He can’t find one that fits. I think it never had one. He thinks it has to have one or I could end up in the same spot. Please help. Literally been dealing with this for years and it has cost me thousands because my starter went out.
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your new mechanic is right.
jim
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The block plate started in the 1963 model year for all FE’s, and continued through the end of production, and it’s needed because it positively locates the starter. Prior to that the early bell housings had a provision to locate the starter. A 428 would have had one originally. The same C3AZ-7007-F block plate was used for both automatic & manual transmissions, and for both cars & pickups. There were running changes in the amount & location of clearance holes that were punched, and the location and style of the stiffening rib over the years, but any FE plate you find can be modified to work. For example around the 1968 model year Ford started using rear screw in oil galley plugs on the blocks more, and there were extra clearance holes added for those, so if you find a plate without them just drill the needed holes.
I’ll add, most FT big truck applications use a different block plate, due to the much larger flywheel and transmission bell housings they use.
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It looks like this. Two pieces.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjXDFBjp/IMG-20240118-100746345.jpg)
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I got a c6 block plate spare I don't have a spare inspection cover to go with it. I can post a photo later today
Only problem is I am in Australia I was hunting for one of these back when I swapped from 4 speed TL to c6 It was a real pain to find one then I ended up with 2.
There was some one here on this forum that offered me one but I found mine local from some friends.
Just let me know if you get stuck and can't find one.
Mine is same as the top one in tunnelwedges photo with oil plug holes and pressing around crank.
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Ok, so I think what must have happened is the guys that rebuilt my transmission left it out and that is causing the starter issues. So, now the hunt to find one (preferably on this continent). How do I determine which one I need?
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Should be the one shown with the holes for oil plugs if you buy a gearbox to get refreshed you often don't get or forget to get the blockplate that is what happened to me
make sure to get the inspection cover too.
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Here we go. In Texas, with inspection cover, $100 on ebay. Is this what I need?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285482546609?hash=item427815f5b1:g:JAEAAOSwpdtlCyPj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABAHAA1fizWF6iTJKwx0I70%2FTHwZx5v%2FtIHk%2FN09tUWUSq%2FUWK5G%2FmyPU90k4flXxpwUvBQkKFKhcQg9ofpmZKNvzJuh5lP1Cqs0UomlPTL6alGjE9hrRyefqMJbCfDz4aDZGpgLTI6sYEMjNIf%2BqF54h2VlNvHfc0UCqJXYkyGMfjHuG1lxbeozLtxJuPhkwobZRHijkaxyvHnX66HRwwqLWHXWrNIqj0HV2y6TtKmg6Ih3n7H0CXdec970s4rDDWZzKcJXvFOufdIgDh24r7dlTF4cHKXpHkpjo3fAZuHKgVC9ADkyU4x25QGvy88KcyQDjarEtGZsINcw9dJLOkRus%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9y3ldyjYw
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I've got a bunch of extras. Free but shipping. Extra inspection plates as well.
97415 Brookings Or.
Your location & zipcode?
Richard >>> FERoadster
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LOL. Sent this link to the shop. Guy is looking at tunnel wedge’s photo and another mechanic says he has one. They are going to throw it in at no cost. No inspection cover, though. LMk how much you’d want for just the inspection plate, if you’d break up a set FERoadster and thanks again for the photo Tunnel!
ETA: Tucson, AZ 85746
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428Marauder Not sure how handy you are but it is not really a small job to fit the blockplate gearbox converter and flexplate need to come off. Some one here should be able to give you some starter measurement's to check and make sure there is nothing else going on. Best to check all that when you have it apart and you can check as you put it back together. Or ask you mechanic to check for you.
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Might be able to fit one (inspection cover) into a large flatrate box or a flatrate envelope. If not UPS'
Still no charge. Can ship Monday either USPS or UPS.
Richard
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are your block pins in place- some pins were made to rotate to center trans. (offset pins) - need pins not just bolts also check depth of starter drive to flywheel for full drive engagement - john old iron
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428Marauder Not sure how handy you are but it is not really a small job to fit the blockplate gearbox converter and flexplate need to come off. Some one here should be able to give you some starter measurement's to check and make sure there is nothing else going on. Best to check all that when you have it apart and you can check as you put it back together. Or ask you mechanic to check for you.
I wonder, if you cut the center out so it would slip by the crank, you might be able to move the trans back past the dowel pins and slide it in there.....
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428Marauder:
Please message me an address and I'll get one packaged up today. Will mail it Monday.
Richard
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428Marauder Not sure how handy you are but it is not really a small job to fit the blockplate gearbox converter and flexplate need to come off. Some one here should be able to give you some starter measurement's to check and make sure there is nothing else going on. Best to check all that when you have it apart and you can check as you put it back together. Or ask you mechanic to check for you.
I wonder, if you cut the center out so it would slip by the crank, you might be able to move the trans back past the dowel pins and slide it in there.....
I would not do that it may flop around if you cut it and I think he needs to replace the flexplate as well if it took the teeth off. I really think it is worth checking everything is right. Some mechanics are ruff and just send jobs out the door "poor man pays twice"
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Looked at my flex plates and they have quite an offset from the ring gear to the crank. Would they still turn if the flexplate was inside out? All of my engines are on stands or sitting on the crank flange down. I've got no immediate way to check if one would even fit without hitting the block.
Richard >>> FERoadster
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I use an ATI flexplate and it is flat and it has a spacer that goes on the crank so ring gear should be offset away from block.
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We’re replacing the flywheel. Actually we did a whole variety of things, including replacing the rear main seal while we were in there. Mechanic seems to know what he’s doing regarding Fords and I’m going to trust him to figure it out from here. We should be good now. Thanks guys. Will message you in a sec FERoadster.
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428Marauder Not sure how handy you are but it is not really a small job to fit the blockplate gearbox converter and flexplate need to come off. Some one here should be able to give you some starter measurement's to check and make sure there is nothing else going on. Best to check all that when you have it apart and you can check as you put it back together. Or ask you mechanic to check for you.
I wonder, if you cut the center out so it would slip by the crank, you might be able to move the trans back past the dowel pins and slide it in there.....
i did that one time and it did work
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Got the inspection plate today. Thanks again FERoadster. Still at the mechanic so hopefully that means I wont have to crawl under the car to put it on. Anyone know the size of those 4 bolts?
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Which 4 bolts? The block plate is just sandwiched between the block and the bellhousing, and is held in position by the dowel pins. The 6 bolts that hold the bellhousing to the block are 7/16 NC, with a 5/8" bolt head, the inspection cover bolts are 5/16" NC, with a 1/2" bolt head, as are the starter bolts.
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Which 4 bolts? The block plate is just sandwiched between the block and the bellhousing, and is held in position by the dowel pins. The 6 bolts that hold the bellhousing to the block are 7/16 NC, with a 5/8" bolt head, the inspection cover bolts are 5/16" NC, with a 1/2" bolt head, as are the starter bolts.
The 4 inspection cover bolts. 5/16 NC and do you know how long?
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Short 1/4 or next length up from 1/4" I am metric so I used 8/10mm long ones what ever that is in imperial .375" I also had to cut one of mine shorter because my exhaust headers are close in one spot get bolts with serrated heads that will stop them shaking lose they don't get through bolted.
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Lesson is to not let Chevy guys work on Fords. They know diddly squat about them and screw them up. One local yahoo is a diehard Chevy guy but wanted a Cobra kit car... and it had to be "correct" with a 427 Ford. So of course he had starter problems, never solved despite spending thousands on different fancy starters and flywheels and shims, never even knew they made ones for Fords but they do, a ring with the bolt holes. So then finally, after a year he calls me and asks what the flat plate is for on the new thousand dollar Quicktime bellhousing "My Lakewood never had that".
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Lesson is to not let Chevy guys work on Fords. They know diddly squat about them and screw them up. One local yahoo is a diehard Chevy guy but wanted a Cobra kit car... and it had to be "correct" with a 427 Ford. So of course he had starter problems, never solved despite spending thousands on different fancy starters and flywheels and shims, never even knew they made ones for Fords but they do, a ring with the bolt holes. So then finally, after a year he calls me and asks what the flat plate is for on the new thousand dollar Quicktime bellhousing "My Lakewood never had that".
Well, while that’s true and the previous mechanic should have caught what the mechanic that has it now when he did the starter, it looks like the real problem was the guys who rebuilt the trans did not put the block plate and inspection plate back in. That was like 3 years ago so they aren’t going to do anything about it now. It’s been such a pain because when the trans burned up it also caused a leak in the radiator which caused water and trans fluid to mix. With your guys help and this new mechanic that knows Fords I should finally get past all this. Lesson: If you know your trans is going out, get it rebuilt before it burns up.
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I have to think that the cooler inside the radiator started leaking, and mixing the coolant and ATF, and was unrelated from the transmision "burning up". I can`t think of any situation where the transmission failing could cause that to occur.I have seen several cases where the radiators internal trans cooler failed, and the ATF turned into a "Pepto Bismal" pink milkshake, but had nothing to do with the transmissions condition. My guess is that the cooler just sprung a leak inside the rad.