FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Bob H on January 12, 2024, 10:57:13 AM
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I just installed my new cam. The motor was previously re done and when I got the car from the deceased owner's parents the motor was ready to drop in. However, I was not pleased with the cam that the engine builder used so I changed it. The block has a casting code of C7ME with no additional numbers or suffix letters. I am now re installing the cam retaining plate and the bolts that the engine builder used looked like original bolts. They were Grade 5 with some Ford Blue paint and they were 7/16 x 14 and 7/8 inch long with no washers ( 5/8 wrench needed ). They did have some sort of sticky stuff on the threads and I'm guessing that it was a thread locker. The previously installed timing chain ( still new ) is a double roller type. The holes in the block for these retaining bolts look to be original. Based on what I have been reading I'm not sure if this was typical. What torque spec should I use for these bolts ?
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All the original bolts I have seen are actually Philips head bolts. I usually replace them with hex head bolts, and torque them to 40-45 foot pounds - Jay
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DO you remember how big the actual bolts were ? I either have something that was tapped to a bigger size many years ago or something really odd.
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A thrust plate bolt should be a 7/16-14. A good length is 5/8", as it won't occlude the feed hole to the distributor gear.
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Thanks Brent. I now feel more confident on what I have. My bolts are 7/8 long but they should still be ok. I will go to 40 to 45 Pounds with some Loctite.
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Check the length and make sure it doesn't block off the oil passage inside that bolt hole. If it does, oil to the distributor shaft/gear will be necked off.
I usually torque mine to 55 with blue Loctite, but it looks like a little lower has worked for guys too.
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There Is A Big Difference Between 5/8" And 7/8" When It Comes To Bolt Length. Why Ask A Question And Then Not Take The Advise Of A Well Known FE Builder/Assembler??? Precision Oil Pumps Sells ARP Bolts Of The Proper Length, With Thin Heads To Hold The Cam Plate In Place. They Don't Cost That Much. Do Yourself, And Your Engine A Favor, And Give Doug A Call. These Engines Are Too Valuable And Getting Scarce To Allow A Shadetree To Put Hardware Store Bolts In Them, That Aren't Just Right, And Risk A Catastrophy, Or At The Least, Grind Against The Cam Gear And Fill The Oil With Metal Shavings. JMHO
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Yes make sure you check the clearance of the cam sprocket to the head of the bolt.
The stock Philips head screw has lots of clearance. Hex head bolts not so much.
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I'll check the clearance again. The engine builder has been putting together FE motors for years but it doesn't hurt to verify. I do have a source close by that has grade 8 bolts available in a variety of lengths.
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Like Jay said, every FE that I have ever worked on, used Phillips head bolts for the cam retainer plate, and I have never felt the need to use anything different. I have the correct sized socket (#4 I believe), and I have never had a problem being able to torque them to whatever the factory spec in the shop manuals with the correct Phillips head socket.
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Factory cam thrust retaining fasteners are not Phillips.
They are PoziDriv.
Last post in this thread.
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=11055.msg123473#msg123473 (https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=11055.msg123473#msg123473)
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Another option is a button head, Allen type bolt.
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No need to get fancy with any of it. Most bolts will clear the timing sets I use (mainly Cloyes). Before Doug at POP started offering bolts, I would just buy a high quantity of 7/16-14 x 3/4 bolts from McMaster/Fastenal or use the ones that come in the Durabond engine finishing kits, then cut them down to 5/8". Never had a problem. Doug's bolts are made by ARP for T&D and they're already the right length, so I just have Doug send me a hand-full every now and again.
Not a fan of reusing the factory ones. By the time I get them, they've been removed/installed 17 times and look like someone with a small screwdriver and channel locks tried to get them out. I use mainly steel thrust plates, cam gears, and cams, so the new fastener "looks" correct.
An unplated 7/16-14 Grade 5 fastener torques at 50-55 according to the charts and I'd rather not rely on threadlocker to hold it all in there, I'd rather stretch that bolt accordingly. I personally just don't like the feel of trying to torque something with a Phillips (or PosiDrv) head.
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Factory cam thrust retaining fasteners are not Phillips.
They are PoziDriv.
Call it whatever you want, I have used a Phillips head socket on the factory FE cam thrust plate for close to 50 years without issues, so I have no reason to change what works for me. As for "Pozi Drive", every FE cam thrust plate bolt that I have ever removed, installed, or looked at, had just 4 large slots, just like a Phillips, can not say that I have ever noticed 4 "extra" tiny slots, as in the Pozi Drive illustration that you posted. Or have any idea what those 4 extra, small slots are intended to do.
As for the thrust plates themselves, I have never found the need to use anything other than the original Ford plates, and again, never an issue in nearly 50 years.
Last post in this thread.
https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=11055.msg123473#msg123473 (https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=11055.msg123473#msg123473)
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If you run a flat tappet, then a stock thrust plate is all that’s needed.
On roller cams that are steel, I feel it’s best to match the material, with the cam, cam gear, and thrust plate.
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Call it whatever you want, I have used a Phillips head socket on the factory FE cam thrust plate for close to 50 years without issues, so I have no reason to change what works for me. As for "Pozi Drive", every FE cam thrust plate bolt that I have ever removed, installed, or looked at, had just 4 large slots, just like a Phillips, can not say that I have ever noticed 4 "extra" tiny slots, as in the Pozi Drive illustration that you posted. Or have any idea what those 4 extra, small slots are intended to do.
As for the thrust plates themselves, I have never found the need to use anything other than the original Ford plates, and again, never an issue in nearly 50 years.
Well... respectfully,
I'm not calling it whatever I want.
I'm calling it what it is.
If you can't see the "hash marks" on the screw, maybe you need new glasses?
Here's a fuzzy out of focus shot of a genuine Ford cam retainer screw.
Even out of focus I can see the hash marks that denote a Pozidriv screw.
The 4 extra slots are simply identifying marks that tell you it’s a Pozidriv screw, and not a Phillips.