Block bolt hole repair on Deck - best option?

[JamesonRacing]

Doing winter maintenance on the 465 in my street car, and have one head bolt that won't torque out.  Center lower hole.

Is a timesert the way to repair this?

Another option could be to run studs on the short external positions, but I'm limited to bolts with shortened heads on the long internal positions to work with my Jesel rocker system.

Thoughts?

[frnkeore]

You don't need to use those huge, Timesert's.

It can be done with Rosan/Fairchild thread inserts, called Slimserts. There are two sizes, for 1/2 x 13, one uses a extra fine thread, 9/16 x 24 and the other uses a std 5/8 x 18 thread. They are aerospace quality products. A good friend of mine worked there in the '70's and got me setup for 7/16 and 3/8 inserts, for my race car.

[jayb]

Why won't it torque? Is the block deck cracked? Are the threads just worn out?  If it's just the threads, you might be able to just drill and tap the hole a little deeper, and use a longer bolt.

[JamesonRacing]

Shining a light into the hole, it looks like the threads are just worn out where the bolt ends.  Would it make sense to have a stud in only the one location, and bolts in the rest?

[blykins]

Shining a light into the hole, it looks like the threads are just worn out where the bolt ends.  Would it make sense to have a stud in only the one location, and bolts in the rest?

It would just look different, but you'd be the only one that would know.  A stud would be a quick fix.  Otherwise, I'd just slap an insert in it and go. 

[JamesonRacing]

Would repairing the hole with an insert compromise the deck strength at all? 

[blykins]

Would repairing the hole with an insert compromise the deck strength at all?

No

[Stangman]

Nothing wrong with at least trying the stud.

[JamesonRacing]

Thanks for the responses...gotta get that FE back together soon.  Fingers crossed there's no more surprises

[Keith Stevens]

A Time-sert is EXACTLY what you want to use. The poster above has never used one I would gather. They come in two different varieties.
There is the regular time-sert and a the one designed to repair a hole that has already been repaired.
They work flawlessly. They have a shoulder that will sit flush with the deck. They are also self-locking. If you want pictures of what comes in the set I'd be glad to post them for you. I had to use the over-sized Time-sert for the rocker arm pads. Edelbrock uses a crappy weak Helicoil in the aluminum heads and they simply don't hold well.
Spend your money on the standard Time-sert kit.  There is also a pilot tool that guides the drill and the tap.

[frnkeore]

Keith,
No, I haven't used the those smaller Timeserts. I have used the Slimserts for 48 years and they have several advantages over the Timeserts.

Timeserts:
------------Drill size -- C'bore -- Dp -- Tap
1/2-13 - 33/64 .515   .648    .110    .604  Carbon steel/SS

The Slimerts use a .531 drill and a 9/16 x 24 UNEF tap but, only a .562 C'bore (most other sizes use std fine thread taps). The knurled area of the Slimsert, is swaged into the C'bore, giving a positive lock and can be removed by just drilling most of the lock out and unscrewing them with the installation tool.

They also offer locking inserts, ideal for rocker studs or any other application that a bolt would benefit from not loosening.

All the inserts are made of 17-4 PH SS, far better than carbon steel and better than 3 or 400 series stainless.

Please read the material over, before making judgement.

I will admit that I have only used the larger Timeserts, in industrial applications.

[Keith Stevens]

I've used several types on inserts over the years. The Heli in non-ferrous metals are absolutely horrid. What I do like about the time-sert that not only does it have a self-locking pin but it has a shoulder that is counter-bored with the supplied tool.  No issue with 130+ lbs of torque on a 1/2" insert. The insert also exerts load on the flat surface of what is being fastened in place. I have yet to see one let go.  They're perfect for the application mentioned above or the rocker stands in my case.  I also like that ALL tools required are included in the kit other than the knurled guide. It's about eight dollars. Custorer service from Time-sert was also phenominal.

[jayb]

For what it's worth, I've had poor luck with Timeserts, have had several of the 3/8" size crack and break in sets of Blue Thunder heads.  I went with an insert called an E-Z Lok on my cylinder heads; have never had a problem with those.  Also have not tried the inserts that Frank mentioned.

[Keith Stevens]

I was talking to my neighbor who was a Millwright in a refinery. He mentioned they had an issue with some of the early products from Time-sert. He was also the one who turned me onto the Time-sert. He told me that they had changed some materials and processes at some juncture. Helicoils serve their purpose but I have seen many fail in soft metals. I loved the self-setting shoulder with the insert. I think they were the best choice for the rocker stand repair.
As they say. There is always a proper tool for a particular application.

[JamesonRacing]

Bought the Time-sert kit and repaired the hole.  Looks quite robust now. dressed the top of the insert with a file to ensure it didn't stick up above the deck.  Time to get the heads back on!