Bell Housing alignment

[Bolted to Floor]

Hi Guys, it looks like I need to get some alignment pins to make this work. Can I get some feed back on how I went about this and if it looks like I went about it correctly? The paint was cleaned off the back of the block. The flywheel was torqued then one bolt removed to set the dial indicator base.
First round by clock positions
12= .000”
3= .014”
6= .006”
9= -.008”
12= .000”

Second time around
12= .000”
3= .014”
6= .007”
9= -.008”
12= .000”


With the TKO 600, it allows .005” and going through Modern Driveline’s tech files, they say any needle movement over .010 will require alignment pins. Looks like I’m good on the 12-6 position, but the 3-9 position shows .022”.

So, what size pins should I get?
I found this chart online after some Googling. It was also include on the Installation instructions I downloaded for the bell housing after I first asked.

Total Indicator Reading   One-Half Total Indicator Reading   Dowel Size to Use   Lakewood Offset Dowel Pt.# GM .625"   Lakewood Offset Dowel Pt.# Ford/Mopar .500"
.012"-.020"                   .006"-.010"                                    .007"           LAK-15920                                        LAK-15950LKW

.022"-.034"                   .011"-.017"                                    .014"           LAK-15930                                        LAK-15960LKW

.036"-.052"                   .018"-.026"                                     .021"           LAK-15940                                        LAK-15970



Is there a preferred brand?
I bought pins from RobbMc Performance. The flats sticking out past the bell housing made them easy to adjust.

And what is the trick to removing the existing pin by the starter?

Edit to add info

[My427stang]

Might want to try again after loosening the bolts and giving it a thump with a dead blow or rubber mallet  the way you want it to go. Torque, order of tightening etc can make a huge difference on the old Lakewood’s. I often get them right and then drill and pin they move so much. QT is likely better but you never know

[drdano]

I'd play with clocking that locator ring a bit, I bet you could get it closer. I'd start with clocking it 180.

[Bolted to Floor]

OK guys, I will give both options a try. Thanks.

[64PI]

Might want to try again after loosening the bolts and giving it a thump with a dead blow or rubber mallet  the way you want it to go. Torque, order of tightening etc can make a huge difference on the old Lakewood’s. I often get them right and then drill and pin they move so much. QT is likely better but you never know

x2 on drilling and pinning. Definitely keeps things in place and easier for the next time..

[Bolted to Floor]

Soft blow hammer and clocking the inner ring didn't get me enough movement. I have ordered a set of .014 pins. Thanks for the help.

[frnkeore]

Something to think about: your numbers don't add up so, your bell housing hole is not round, at least when bolted down. Your bell is off .003 in the Y axis and .011 in the X.

You need to measure the pilot on the trans and the hole, in the bell housing, to see how much clearance there is. When installed the weight is in the vertical plane so, if the hole to trans pilot is more than .010 - .012, it won't meet specs, unless it bolted with some jack pressure or let down on the rear mount with some weight on it. In the X, you might want to epoxy some shims to the sides of the trans pilot.

[Bolted to Floor]

You need to measure the pilot on the trans and the hole, in the bell housing, to see how much clearance there is. When installed the weight is in the vertical plane so, if the hole to trans pilot is more than .010 - .012, it won't meet specs, unless it bolted with some jack pressure or let down on the rear mount with some weight on it. In the X, you might want to epoxy some shims to the sides of the trans pilot.

The hole in the bell is with .002 of being round bolted to the block checking from several angles. The quoted stuff doesn’t make sense to me. Thanks for the reply.

[Ranch]

Here is the pins I used and they work great and you can remove the Bellhousing with out disturbing the the location of the pins.  So it's set it once and forget it.

    https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html

The hardest part is removing the hardened ones that have been in there over the years.  I had to borrow a Pin puller from my buddy and even that was tuff.  The pin puller is like a slide hammer but you have a collet to lock onto your pin, got to make it German tight on the pin (goodentight )
I set my bell a touch high knowing the weight of the transmission would lay on the bottom of the hole....Hope that helps

[6667fan]

I was doing the same job today. Used some Lakewood .021 offset dowels and got my North/ South to .004 and East/West to .002.
 Couple suggestions, if you did not torque your bell to specs before running your dial indicator you will  not get the real numbers.
When you get your new offset pins roll them around on something flat and establish the point that has the max offset. Mark that point on the edge of the outer circumference with a sharpie, then you will have a max clocking reference point. I had to use the max offset on those .021 dowels to get those numbers. My North/South was decent to start with but East/West was way off.
Good luck,
JB

[Towd56]

I’ve been fighting this same task for nearly two months. I am finally within a few thousands everywhere. Here is what I learned:

1. Start with checking the actual flywheel for run out. If flywheel has a ton of run out it will give you crazy numbers when checking the concentric. Don’t just assume that because you’ve had it machined that it is OK.
2. Next check that when bolted to the block - the bellhousing is actually parallel to the block. This too will throw of your concentric.
3. Last - check the concentric run out.

I will also say that when removing 1 bolt from flywheel may work - I found minor differences when I also removed an opposing bolt from opposite side.

Two months later - I had to have the flange side of my new flywheel dressed, bought offset dowels, and a little machining on a bellhousing that was nearly 800 bucks. Very frustrating to say the least.

[6667fan]

That sucks Dennis, is that a new Quick Time unit? If so, is the fork opening location going to play nice in the intended vehicle?

Good luck,
JB

[Bolted to Floor]

Thanks for the feed back guys. it's very much appreciated.

I did manage to get the driver side pin out. vise grips alone didn't work. It was too hard to drill..... when I center punched it for the drill bit, it went about 1/8".    Not what i wanted to happen. I didn't get enough heat into it to kill the hardness of it or heat in the block to allow it to pull out either.

In the end, I drilled a hole to tap and shoot it out with grease. Since I measured wrong and wasn't past the end of it, I had to angle the drill to get to past the end. This time, a barely made it. I used a tapered punch to to drive in behind it which drove the pin out some. Tapping on the shaft of the punch got it out some more. After that, it was a combination of vise grips and used the punch as a lever to final remove it.

This bell housing and flywheel were on the last motor and it was within tolerance when I checked for the 005". This is a different block and crank.

I haven't been checking the torque on the bell to block bolts. I've been using a battery impact, it's should get to the 35-45 listed in the instructions for the bell. I will have to check that.

Marking the high side of the offset pins, got it.

Towd56, I feel for ya. I have a few hours invested and don't want to imagine what its been like for you over the last couple of months dealing with it. I have checked for run out around the circumference of the flywheel. I did check the face at the edge where the clutch disc rides. It was .007 there. The Blue allows up to .010.

All of this was done with the motor beside the car hanging from the engine hoist. Since I am impatient, the motor was set in down in the car yesterday. I will have to finish up from underneath. I am proceeding with the headers and front engine dress. I have a note to self to mark the balancer so I know where to stop when I get back to taking readings again. That way I only crawl once for each reading!!!

[machoneman]

Yeah, I had to index mine with the engine in the car. Yikes! Not the easiest job doing by myself and all the crawling in/out. What a pain!

[babybolt]

The other factor is the crankshaft main bearings have clearances.