BBM head info

[TJ]

Definitely agree with Yellow Truck about this being a great forum to learn.  I don't understand why some guys show up with an obvious burr under their saddle.  Once I figure out who those guys are I just skip over their comments and don't read them.   

Blykins is one of the most honest and genuinely helpful guys I know. 

[frnkeore]

Back to the sub section of this topic, sims.

As I said in my post, I like the Gonk and I like it because it is a way of averaging out input/output and it's connection to ET/MPH info. Just like taking a engine to multiple dyno's might do.That said, I can't recall it winning a "Guess the HP" challenge.

Regarding dyno's, one thing that hasn't been address on that, is headers. Brent uses the same dyno, with the same headers for all applications. In his case, he might be leaving (or loosing) HP on the table by not matching the headers to the engine or not using his customer's headers. With a sim, you can change out headers, in a few seconds moving the torque around, in the rpm band.

I've never heard what Blair does for headers on the dyno but, I think he used his own on the EMC dyno? Jay has many sets of headers to play with, I believe?

Ring packs are another variable, that can add as much as 22 HP, as piston mfg say. I can't add ring packs to my sim (Dyno Sim 6) so, I just add it to the end result, based on what I want the ring pack to be. BTW, my sim seems to be very accurate and I have hit at, least one of Brent's dyno sessions, off by 1 hp. With it, I can input the exact head flow and cam lobe (CC only) as well as build a lobe or verify one in it's cad program, for that. I think that is one of the keys to it's accuracy.

Regarding things getting off on the wrong track......... A lot of it is how you word your response!!! It can be worded so conflict is eminent or in a "better" way Some people shy away from conflict and some people don't.

[Gregwill16]

+2 Very much appreciate the opinions and information from all the builders and experienced members. A few other members seem to have an axe to grind with Brent and love to jump in "sniping" as Yellow Truck stated very well.

[turbohunter]

Hey all you beautiful builders. Dig you all.
Do what you do. Say what you wanna say about the motors we love. Don’t care if you’re lookin’ for work or just giving out info.
Thank you. The info you give us is invaluable.
Always gonna be snipers. It’s part of the human condition.
Water off a ducks back baby.

[Stangman]

I agree with turbohunter and yellowtruck. I would hate for one or more of the big 5 lets say to stop posting because it is a big loss for the forum and the members that need the help. Everybody has there thing whether it cylinder heads , cams ,  porting intake manifolds , timing covers etc. We need all this information to learn and even the big 5 learn when someone posts something. You cant know everything we are learning all the time and we need everybody. Now thats my 3 cents

[jayb]

Once again, another thread getting out of hand.  I've had to delete and/or modify several messages from good members here.  Knock off the personal attacks, guys.  There is room here for opinions without getting personal.  I don't want to have to start deleting more members for this childish BS.

And just to clear a few things up about the cams in my dyno mule, I did get that first cam from Blair for a different engine, years ago, and I mentioned that in the original thread with the dyno results.  The cam I got from Brent was specifically for my dyno mule; Brent had access to previous results with Blair's cam, and also the head flow figures from my heads.  Brent's cam performed significantly better up to 7000 RPM, and I didn't run any higher than that.  I suspect that the cam I got from Blair would work better at higher engine speeds, but since I didn't run there I don't know.  I also suspect that Blair could spec a cam that would run just as well as the cam I got from Brent.

So, can we please get back to a normal technical discussion?  Thanks...

[Lg57]

Amen to that!

[mbrunson427]

See what you started, Greg! 

[Thumperbird]

Remember this is an internet forum, albeit a pretty good one and I have benefited from it, thank you to all.
With that said and as a somewhat nuetral observer to this thread in it's original form I would say ALL points made were/are valid to one degree or another, just an opinion which is OK to have I think.

[cammerfe]

A quick "Thumbs Up" to all. There is more good info and comment on this site than anyplace else on the 'net. Let's do smiles.!!!

KS

[gregaba]

Didn't mean to start trouble.
I just want to find out opinions and info on the FE engine.
I havn't buildt one of these since the 70's when parts disappeared. I have been building 351 C's and 429-460's since then.
I like this site because everyone seams to give honest opinion's on building these engines.
i still want to thank everyone for their time and effort it takes to post here.
Greg

[475fetoploader]

Yeah, turns out you didn’t start trouble.  I think a lot of the issues we have are due to the fact that communication is mostly body language, since we’re all just typing, we don’t see what we’re really saying to each other.

[My427stang]

I thought that the aluminum head was basicly just a litter better then stock head with the benifit being in the weight saving's.
Guess I was wrong
 

Greg, Werby showed some goodness in this table, but regardless of the arguing...if you got that comment out of this thread, and others did too, this is a big win.

Differences in heads, aside from things like blowers or nitrous, are likely the most dramatic change.  I like to say "fast guys focus on head work"  The differences are dramatic from most stock heads, and even across multiple stock heads.  A 428 CJ compared to a C8AE-H is dramatic.  A C8AE-H vs and aftermarket, even more.  A good head can make more power and rpm with the same cam, or make the same power with less cam, depending on what you want to do.  Fun stuff when you get into all of it coming together to match end use

[gregaba]

Yeah
I all ways knew that good heads made a difference but not as much as is shown in the gronk and in the dyno results in the forum.
In the late 70's and 80's I was building outlaw late model engines for our race team. SBC.
The thing is we had to rent dyno time so I would build the engine and then we would dyno the whole package at that time so I didn't know what made the most power when we did the build.
I mostly thought the heads were worth about 30 HP as an average and the aluminum was mostly for weight saving which was real important in our class.
 I thought the most power was from the roller can and ultra rev kit we used.
Really wish I had a dyno.
Well I am not to old to learn something new.
Greg

[shady]

Really, You guys just can't let it alone, sheesh. FWIW I learn way more from Brent than I ever will from you and hope he stays. In b4 the lock-down.