Author Topic: "Flow numbers"  (Read 4781 times)

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CaptCobrajet

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"Flow numbers"
« on: June 20, 2019, 03:38:05 PM »
I sent a set of "Race" Medium Riser Ed Pro Ports to a new customer.  In talking with him prior, I could tell he had been around the block at least twice.  He asked me what they would flow, knowing that benches and methods vary.  I asked him to just trust me and try them.  He said he would, so we did them.  He owns a Superflow 600, so I suggested he flow them on his bench after he looked them over.  I prepped them for .700 lift.  He sent me his findings.  2.250 valve on a 4.310 fixture, 28". 

.300    232
.350    250
.400    280
.450    305
.500    332
.550    345
.600    360
.650    365

I thought I would post these third party(flowed by customer) numbers, since people always ask about numbers.  These quit at 370.  I could valvejob them differently and make them go about 15 more at .800-.850, but the application didn't warrant that. Exhaust went 266 up top.  These are about 15cfm better than the "Street" version that retains a MR location.  This port requires some intake work, pushrod tube relocation, and offset rockers, but still a "Medium Riser" style head. 
Blair Patrick

feadam

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 03:45:36 PM »
Will the new high risers have better numbers in and ex than this

e philpott

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2019, 03:52:18 PM »
dang the  .300 to .500 lift  flow is amazing

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2019, 04:10:41 PM »
dang the  .300 to .500 lift  flow is amazing

^ certainly nice for some easy going valve springs/longevity.  Great stuff.

Galaxie505

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2019, 09:38:03 PM »
For those who don't know, Blair is a fe wizard!
I'm about to get back into my build using one of his motors and I'll post some pics soon

351crules

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2019, 10:05:03 PM »
I sent a set of "Race" Medium Riser Ed Pro Ports to a new customer.  In talking with him prior, I could tell he had been around the block at least twice.  He asked me what they would flow, knowing that benches and methods vary.  I asked him to just trust me and try them.  He said he would, so we did them.  He owns a Superflow 600, so I suggested he flow them on his bench after he looked them over.  I prepped them for .700 lift.  He sent me his findings.  2.250 valve on a 4.310 fixture, 28". 

.300    232
.350    250
.400    280
.450    305
.500    332
.550    345
.600    360
.650    365

I thought I would post these third party(flowed by customer) numbers, since people always ask about numbers.  These quit at 370.  I could valvejob them differently and make them go about 15 more at .800-.850, but the application didn't warrant that. Exhaust went 266 up top.  These are about 15cfm better than the "Street" version that retains a MR location.  This port requires some intake work, pushrod tube relocation, and offset rockers, but still a "Medium Riser" style head.


what is the cross section of that port?   height and width?/

CaptCobrajet

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2019, 12:56:11 AM »
1.950 tall, 1.710 wide with big radius corners.  Oval but almost round.....
Blair Patrick

Falcon67

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2019, 09:08:29 AM »
dang the  .300 to .500 lift  flow is amazing

Where you wait it.  Peak flow is fun to bench race but the valve doesn't stay there but a blink.  Area under the curve is the game.

gt350hr

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2019, 10:10:14 AM »
 Air flow measuring with the valve in motion and the vacuum and pressure provided by a crank rod and piston would be a real eye opener.

shady

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 12:25:01 PM »
For those who don't know, Blair is a fe wizard!
I'm about to get back into my build using one of his motors and I'll post some pics soon
In case you missed it Blair got mentioned in the latest HotRod mag.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
2021 FERR cool FE Winner
2022 FERR cool FE Winner
2023 FERR cool FE Winner

gt350hr

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 05:07:56 PM »
   Well deserved and Jay's clear valve covers got ink in Car Craft too!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 09:45:14 AM by gt350hr »

351crules

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 07:24:08 PM »
1.950 tall, 1.710 wide with big radius corners.  Oval but almost round.....

would that port require off set rockers/lifters?  is there a manifold that with go that wide without welding or bushing?  my vic doesn't seem to be able to get much more that 1.40" nwide without messing with it

CaptCobrajet

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2019, 09:06:28 PM »
The Victor or TFS manifolds will work.  I plug the intake pushrod holes with solid aluminum and move the port over, then mill the pushrod hole where it needs to be.  I use offset Crower lifters and offset T&D rockers to keep the pushrod at no more than a 1° angle.  I think that is important to keep side thrust of the rocker to a minimum.

When BBM made the their tunnel wedge, I was involved, so I got him to add material in places to accommodate high port entry.  He also made some intakes without the intake pushrod holes drilled, so when using this head or others with ports moved over, that step is much easier and less costly. 

All of the intakes need the floors filled.  The BBM tunnel wedge really works out nice and makes really good power when fixed for this port.  I have gotten some stuff from Jay with no pushrod holes and no port hole.  Also have done some billet manifolds for this intake port.
Blair Patrick

mbrunson427

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2019, 11:09:23 PM »
Here are a couple pictures of the heads Blair sent me before they got mailed out.



For comparison's sake.... a "street" pro port.


Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

351crules

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2019, 01:15:07 AM »
what do the street heads do on the bench

CaptCobrajet

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2019, 05:17:47 AM »
what do the street heads do on the bench


I do those Street heads with either 2.200 or 2.220 valves usually.  We can actually go even smaller and shrink the hole port per throat diameter, but I think the 2.200 valve is good all the way down to 400 cubes and 390-ish bores.  On flow, up to .400, they are only a few cfm off the "Race" port, mainly due to more velocity from the small port.  As the lift goes up, the bigger valve and bigger cross section start to show up.  I have posted numbers from my bench before, but by comparison, they would be down about 10 cfm at .450, gradually working there way to around 15 cfm down at .600 lift.  The big difference is what happens after .600 lift.  The big port keeps going after .600 if prepped for high lift.  In a .800-.900 contest, both heads using the same high lift valvejob, the Race port gets to a point of being 25-30 better, and more friendly to 500+ inch engines.  I have some 2.040 and 2.095 versions of the Race port that we put on Super Stock apps that go pretty good with the small valves.  With no rules, and most usable camshafts, the Street heads are the better economical choice for anything less than 500 inches, and don't require nearly as much manifold work.  Straight-on lifters and rockers, and a reasonable port match will work.

The chamber options and exhaust port options are available with either intake port.  We have done some Street intakes with really small chambers and Race exhaust ports that are really good and avoid the major manifold work.  The neat thing about the Pro Port deal is we can mix and match programs and create stuff to fit a specific intention, rather than a one size fits all situation.
Blair Patrick

e philpott

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2019, 11:40:55 AM »
Hey Blair, with those low lift numbers from your race head , what would happen if someone ran one with less than.600 lift and used straight up lifters and rockers along with unmodified med riser 2x4 ? Obviously you’re not taking advantage of high lift but those low lift flow numbers are so good that in a milder situation how much would it hurt with the stock-ish intake? Just curious

351crules

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2019, 02:53:12 PM »
what do the street heads do on the bench


I do those Street heads with either 2.200 or 2.220 valves usually.  We can actually go even smaller and shrink the hole port per throat diameter, but I think the 2.200 valve is good all the way down to 400 cubes and 390-ish bores.  On flow, up to .400, they are only a few cfm off the "Race" port, mainly due to more velocity from the small port.  As the lift goes up, the bigger valve and bigger cross section start to show up.  I have posted numbers from my bench before, but by comparison, they would be down about 10 cfm at .450, gradually working there way to around 15 cfm down at .600 lift.  The big difference is what happens after .600 lift.  The big port keeps going after .600 if prepped for high lift.  In a .800-.900 contest, both heads using the same high lift valvejob, the Race port gets to a point of being 25-30 better, and more friendly to 500+ inch engines.  I have some 2.040 and 2.095 versions of the Race port that we put on Super Stock apps that go pretty good with the small valves.  With no rules, and most usable camshafts, the Street heads are the better economical choice for anything less than 500 inches, and don't require nearly as much manifold work.  Straight-on lifters and rockers, and a reasonable port match will work.

The chamber options and exhaust port options are available with either intake port.  We have done some Street intakes with really small chambers and Race exhaust ports that are really good and avoid the major manifold work.  The neat thing about the Pro Port deal is we can mix and match programs and create stuff to fit a specific intention, rather than a one size fits all situation.


thank you...

CaptCobrajet

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2019, 03:12:04 PM »
Hey Blair, with those low lift numbers from your race head , what would happen if someone ran one with less than.600 lift and used straight up lifters and rockers along with unmodified med riser 2x4 ? Obviously you’re not taking advantage of high lift but those low lift flow numbers are so good that in a milder situation how much would it hurt with the stock-ish intake? Just curious

I think you'd be awful close just using the Street intake port.  You'd have to raise the roof and the floor of the manifold to get the floor and roof  in the ballpark, even if you didn't move the intake side.  That is an interesting thought.  I should flow a mock-up manifold entry and see.  It would dampen the reverse pulse to have the manifold smaller on that side. Lots of ways to skin a cat.......I think the smaller port is more friendly to milder camshafts.  That Race port is intended for more aggressive and race type apps.  You need inches and/or aggressive valve motion to fill a big port.
Blair Patrick

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: "Flow numbers"
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2019, 04:25:11 PM »
I wish BBM had made a "pro-port" tunnelwedge.  That and your edelbrock heads would be super cool for a hot street car.
Sure my medium riser is awesome, but no one can deny the looks of a tunnelwedge.