All things FE Headers.

[thatdarncat]

Doug's question a couple weeks ago about header fitment around the oil pan got me thinking - there are always a lot of FE Header questions, since we have such a large variety of FE powered vehicles, and often many with tight engine compartments, along with just the usual header issues, maybe we could use a post that gathers as much of the info together in one place as possible, hopefully so people can search in the future. I see a lot of FE header questions elsewhere online too, whether looking for recommendations, or "will they fit...?". There are a lot of reasonably priced stainless headers on places like eBay now days too, but usually with nothing more than the info that they fit "Fords", not real helpful. My thought is that people will continue to add to this post, hopefully with pictures, but also their experiences with fit issues, luck they've had with swapping headers to a vehicle that didn't originally have an FE, Cheap headers that worked...or didn't, custom headers they've built, race headers, dyno comparison results, headers that happened to work on a different application, etc. I think you get the idea. The pictures could help people I.D. old headers they find at swap meets, etc. too. Be sure to include brand names and part numbers if you know them. Jay's book has some great info that can give people some good guidelines, but of course there are many more varieties of FE headers out there. This could become a huge out of control post I suppose, so let me know if you think the idea is dumb.

I recently put together a "mock up" FE engine in the garage to help with a project I'm working on, so I figured I could start this out with some FE headers I have sitting around while that was handy to bolt them to and take pictures. I'll add some of the observations I've had with them ( at least what I remember ).

Like I said, please add to this any pictures you have, whether the headers are just sitting on the floor, or on your vehicle, or modifications you had to make, whatever. You never know what might help someone out.

I'll add too, people should certainly go ahead and make their own separate header posts if they want, I don't mean to push someone here where their answer might get lost, I'm just trying to make a general informational post people can refer to if that makes sense.

[thatdarncat]

Here are a set of REF headers I have. REF in Kingman Arizona makes these headers to your order, so they aren't just a universal part. These were spec'd for a 390 Stock Eliminator '67 Mustang/Cougar drag race application, with an automatic. REF would make them differently for example if it was for a 428, or a stick shift, etc. These are 8 individual tubes that slip into the collector. They will ask about the specific heads you're using, these were made for an 8 exhaust bolt hole head, they can do other patterns. As you can see these won't fit a "T" style oil pan, but info from Doug's recent question sounds like they can make those too. The O2 sensor bungs were an option. I had the V-Band clamp flanges welded on after, since I plan to also use these on Dragweek with exhaust occasionally. I also had them coated locally. Best idea for anyone interested would be to contact REF directly about what they can make, price, etc.



Here shows an issue I found, the standard FL1 style oil filter will contact the forward tube of the header with a stock Ford oil filter adapter, which angles slightly rearward, I am going to use a Precision Oil Pumps oil filter adapter that points the oil filter straight down, which clears then. There's enough tolerance to just get the stock filter to fit, but it touches, with some modification a person could make the Ford filter adapter work.



The stock Ford car filter adapter.

[thatdarncat]

Here are a set of Hooker 6113 Super Competition headers. Application is '66-'69 Fairlane/Torino/Comet, also some Falcon. I bought these back around 1981, I'm not sure if Hooker has made any changes to these over the years, maybe someone can comment? I had them coated. The drivers side header is a two piece, with a slip fit. I specifically bought these at the time since they would work with the factory clutch linkage. They will not work with a Mustang/Cougar style motor mount on the drivers side, no room to bolt to the block.

One issue with these was the stock Ford oil filter adapter would not fit with the forward tubes. As you can see in the pictures you can fit an oil filter on with the Precision Oil Pumps filter adapter, but the filter is very close. A person may want to check the smaller diameter style oil filter. When I used these I had a remote oil filter set-up.



The collectors on these end at different points due to the pipe layout.









These have slotted upper end bolt holes in the flanges to fit either the 8 bolt/16 bolt exhaust pattern, or the 14 exhaust bolt shock tower head pattern. I don't know if Hooker still makes them that way.





These have the Hooker 6113 part number stamped in them on the flanges and the Hooker logo stamped in the collectors.

[thatdarncat]

Here's the passenger side from a Hooker 6114 Super Competition set. Unfortunately the drivers side of this set I have got bent in an careless trailer mishap. The application for these is Mustang/Cougar. Both sides are single piece header. I bought these in the late '80's, if I remember. I think they have "Mexico" stamped on the flanges, along with the part number. Originally they had a "Hooker" tag spot welded on. These only have bolt holes to fit the 8 exhaust bolt pattern, or the 428 CJ style 16 exhaust bolt pattern, they were not slotted to fit the lower top end bolt holes of the 14 exhaust pattern of the shock tower ( GT ) heads. I modified these to fit the 14 exhaust bolt pattern by drilling extra holes, there's a picture of that below. These had to be welded on the flanges eventually when they started to rust through. You'll notice the passenger side header is similar, but not the same as, the single piece side of the Hooker 6113 Fairlane header. I had these coated.

[thatdarncat]

Here's a set of Hooker 6375 adjustable race headers. These probably date to the early '70's. When Jay was doing the dyno testing for his book we compared these to his Hooker 6375 race headers, that he purchased more recently, and they were a little different, so I assume Hooker made a change at some point. These have the part number stamped in the flanges. These came on one of my cars long ago, sorry, they are pretty rough. These hang pretty low, and show plenty of road scars. The oil filter is very close to the forward tubes, but because of the slight angle of the tubes on these they will fit with the stock Ford oil filter adapter. The "adjustable" part of these is they came with extra parts you could add between the tubes and the collector to change the length, you can see them in one of the pictures I think. These have very large tubes, but also have the largest port openings on the flanges of most common FE headers I've seen. Hooker lists these fitting both '67-'70 Mustang/Cougar and '66-69 Fairlane/Torino/Comet.

















These have the slotted upper end bolt holes too, so they will work with both the 8 exhaust bolt/16 exhaust bolt pattern and the 14 exhaust bolt shock tower head pattern.

[thatdarncat]

Here are a set of Cyclone brand part number #10647 headers. The application was '67-'70 Mustang/Cougar and '66-69 Fairlane/Torino/Comet. I bought these in about 1980. Unfortunately when I bought them through my friends shop back then we didn't notice the notation in the catalog that they would only fit automatic transmission, and not manual transmission vehicles. You can probably see there isn't room for the stock clutch linkage with these. An issue you can note in one of the pictures also is that one of the tubes is right on the back corner of the block. These are mocked up without gaskets, with a gasket they might not touch, otherwise a person would maybe have to clearance the tube or block to keep from rubbing. I should note too, most of these headers including these, won't fit with the original Ford power steering cylinder unless you get an optional drop bracket, if they will fit at all. There isn't any part number or brand logo on these.



Where the tube hits the block









These actually have nice slotted upper end holes to use with either the 8 exhaust bolt/16 exhaust bolt hole pattern or 14 exhaust bolt shock tower head pattern. Seems to me some of the other bolt holes are not fun to get to though.

[thatdarncat]

These are a set of FE headers a friend gave me. I have no idea what brand they are, or what they are supposed to fit. If someone recognizes them let me know. They have no brand logo or part number on them. They are two piece on both sides - one forward tube slips into the other part on the drivers side, the two forward tubes slip into the rest on the passenger side. These are a little tweeked on the passenger side, and the two forward tubes are also rusted in place, so I wasn't able to fully bolt these up to the passenger side head, but I think you get the idea. Also, I could tell a couple of these bolt holes would be near impossible to get to.

Alright, I think that's all I have for now.

[Ranch]

On my '58' I too have my front two tubes coming close to the oil filter and also 3&7 crossing under the pan. When I had my headers ceramic coated I applied a section of that sticky backed aluminum faced thermal barrier on the back under area of the pan and when I change my filter I cover the back half of the side of my filter with the same.  I have to screw the new filter on and mark where I think it will clock when finally installed, take it off and apply the heat barrier, then ready to go back on for another season.
If I would have been thinking I would have dented the tubes closes to the filter before having them ceramic coated.

Oh by the way, the ceramic coating didn't seem to help much with the underhood temp.  What did seem to work was moving the latch on my clam shell hood to open about an 1 1/2" to let the hot air out. I still wouldn't want to be stuck in a traffic jam with summer temps in the 90's.  I see a lota guys put spacers or washers between the hood and the hinge with the standard opening hood

[62Falcon390]

headers for a FE Falcon. I had to make them outside the rails as I am using a 4 speed with mechanical clutch and the driver side wouldn't fit inside the rails.

[FERoadster]

My 48 Lincoln Continental has real interference to the steering box and the engine sits low. Most headers wouldn't work they drop down to far so I used FE shorty cast iron. They tuck back quickly and stay close to the block. The other issue as I see with the pictures is the oil filter. I cleared it by using the 1976 4X4 oil filter adapter. It angles the oil filter forward about 30 degrees. (they are really hard to find)
Here is a comparison on how the 4X4 adapter helped. Car adapter and the 4X4 adapter.

Richard

[Drew Pojedinec]

Why not just put all info here?

76 F100 390 2wd
Flowtech headers
On install they hit the center support on the driver side and need a little grinder work done on the support.  Passenger side fits fine but stock starter cannot be installed or removed with headers attached as truck engine perch prevents it.
C6 transmission can NOT be removed or installed with headers attached.
I’ve had these installed for over a decade and they appear to have held up well in daily driver usage.

63.5 Galaxie
Fpa headers
Hit a-arm passenger side, a-arm can be ground or have 1/4 inch removed with no ill effects.
Steering hits header tube on passenger side at full travel but no Issue so no action taken.
Steering is power parts but control valve changed to borgeson adapter and functions as manual.
To test run engine I installed empty c6 case with no issues however I could not install or remove a ready to run c6 as I could not install it at that angle with a converter in place.

[HvyFt4spd]

Just a quick FYI on eBay headers while each and every set is different be aware that any tube joint is suspect to being blocked due to careless fitting. Often 304 Stainless flanges = nickelplated steel. 304 tubing = very brittle nonmagnetic mystery alloy that requires high wetting temps and cracks with minor stress. Stainless fasteners are nickel plated steel too and the gasket set is of equally low quality... You also must verify sparkplug clearance to RnR as tubes are often in the way as is flange design on various non FE specific sets.
Pictured are blocked tubes from a set of small Ford Tri-y's for early Mustang.

[HvyFt4spd]

*

[TomP]

On the "no idea what brand" ones, they almost look like Crites/MadDog but I don't think they have just one left tube under the crossmember like that though.

I had Cyclones on my 67 Comet with a 4 speed, as I recall the clutch crossbar lower lever hit and the shaft goes above the rear tube rather than running between tubes. Been a while, that was 1980. I remember them hitting the shock towers and being a bugger to install.

I have an inspection camera, a buddy brought over his new China stainless headers for his Mustang. He hadn't yet put them on but just to show off his jewel-like purchase. I stick the inspection camera down a tube and the first one I tried had the tube end at the wall of the tube it "Y's" to. There was a small hole, maybe an inch or less that whole 1 5/8" pipe would have to flow through. No way to get a grinder or torch in there.

[blu64galaxie]

Count me in as one of those -- I'll be following !   And thanks for posting all this up ! 

Like I said, please add to this any pictures you have, whether the headers are just sitting on the floor, or on your vehicle, or modifications you had to make, whatever. You never know what might help someone out.

I'll add too, people should certainly go ahead and make their own separate header posts if they want, I don't mean to push someone here where their answer might get lost, I'm just trying to make a general informational post people can refer to if that makes sense.

[blu64galaxie]

Hi Drew !   
And thanks for those tidbits about your FPA install ......  I am considering them for mine..... Are yours ceramic coated, and if so, do you feel your under hood temps improved ?

Thanks in advance and hope all is well

63.5 Galaxie
Fpa headers
Hit a-arm passenger side, a-arm can be ground or have 1/4 inch removed with no ill effects.
Steering hits header tube on passenger side at full travel but no Issue so no action taken.
Steering is power parts but control valve changed to borgeson adapter and functions as manual.
To test run engine I installed empty c6 case with no issues however I could not install or remove a ready to run c6 as I could not install it at that angle with a converter in place.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Hey Norm,
Through the engine changes I had fpa coated headers both times, so I can't really compare on if the coating helps.
I'm inclined to think it doesn't help much, at least with these headers.

[Pentroof]

My Hooker 6113s on my 66 Cyclone were purchased in 2006. They do not interfere with the oil filter when using the stock filter mount. Perhaps Hooker got some feedback on that at some point and made a change to the two forward pipes on the driver's side. They are very close to the filter, but do not contact it.

I have a 4 speed, manual steering car and not fitment issues other than the pitman arm at full turn.

They sure hang low and the flanges make it worse.

[Pentroof]

This is a bit unconventional because this truck has a 2011 Crown Vic front crossmember in it, but these are my FPA Tri-Y headers in my 1970 F100. These are the standard headers, with no consideration for the CV modification. They fit very well, other than not being able to drop the starter without removing or at least loosening the passenger side.

[blu64galaxie]

Hey Drew ,    Thanks for your quick and honest reply.   Looks like my research continues ....it's only December, so I got lotsa time, lol. 

Hey Norm,
Through the engine changes I had fpa coated headers both times, so I can't really compare on if the coating helps.
I'm inclined to think it doesn't help much, at least with these headers.

[cyclonefe]

I ran across this thread on a google search and thought I might add a story to this.  I have a 1968 Mercury Cyclone that I have intentions on Drag Racing in Stock Class.  My motor, 428 of course, was built by who I feel is one of the best 428 builders in this country.  He told me one thing, NO street headers.  He said that his dyno has shown that the HP he put into my motor would only be used best with either 2" or 2 1/8" headers, anything less would waste his efforts.  That started me on a search for the Hooker headers.  I found that many fit-up issues were common not to mention the price.  So I tried set from a fellow that would not fit but cost half as much as the Hookers.  Then I had a friend buy an new set of Hookers for his 1968 Torino, and they fit fine, but his car had been modified by having the crossmember removed and blocked off at the bottom of the shock towers.  The Mustangs have a "bar" the connects the shock towers and the Toinos and Cyclones have this much larger crossmember.  I had also purchased a used set of Hookers that are really worn badly and could never get them to fit.

Then one day I came upon a fellow on Facebook who said he had worked at Hooker back in California back in the day.  We called each other several times and he had worked on the Hooker 6375 series headers.  He also happened to be there when they were shutting down and moving operations to Mexico.  He told me that one of the workers had taken a set of 6375's and modified it to fit his particular car and combination, but when they needed a set of headers to send to Mexico as the "master" he sent his modified ones.  He felt that was the reason for the ill fitting ones that were on the market.  One of the reasons I was thinking of this was a posting on FB that he had passed away this week, much too soon.

I had been back in contact with him last summer when I was able to find what I believe to an original set of 6375's from the California era and I am looking into the coming future of cutting the crossmember in my Cyclone for installation.  Photos attached

I just thought you might like to add this to the story of an interesting header.

Thanks

Steve

[thatdarncat]

I’m glad you found the thread, thanks for adding to it. I have a friend who has an old set of the Hooker 6376 2” race headers, I’ve been meaning to get him to dig them out and I’ll mock them up for some pictures, maybe this spring. I understand our local CJ racer Ben Line, brother of Pro Stock racer Jason Line, has been making 428 CJ Stock Eliminator race headers, I don’t know what he’s charging, likely not cheap. Just something you might want to keep in mind.

[Posi67]

I'm somewhat of a self proclaimed expert on Hooker 6375's since I bought my 1st set in the mid 70's and have gone through 2 sets since then with another in storage as spares.


"Then one day I came upon a fellow on Facebook who said he had worked at Hooker back in California back in the day.  We called each other several times and he had worked on the Hooker 6375 series headers.  He also happened to be there when they were shutting down and moving operations to Mexico.  He told me that one of the workers had taken a set of 6375's and modified it to fit his particular car and combination, but when they needed a set of headers to send to Mexico as the "master" he sent his modified ones.  He felt that was the reason for the ill fitting ones that were on the market.  One of the reasons I was thinking of this was a posting on FB that he had passed away this week, much too soon.

I had been back in contact with him last summer when I was able to find what I believe to an original set of 6375's from the California era and I am looking into the coming future of cutting the crossmember in my Cyclone for installation.  Photos attached "

The 6375's did end up being made in Mexico and I can tell you that the fit is still close but given the old patterns, dies and where they were last made the fitment isn't as good as the old days. The story about a modified version being produced is bogus and keep in mind that the 6375's were never designed to fit in 68 Cyclones. The application was 67-70 Mustang, Cougar and 66-67 Fairlanes along with 70-71 Mavericks. They didn't fit that great in a Fairlane and a Maverick wasn't exactly a bolt on but I like them because they do fit my Mustang. The pictures you've provided are 6375's with the collector extensions tack welded on. Now... they might be close or even fit well but the "California era" has nothing to do with that.

REF are very common these days among racers and obviously they work but I'm not keen on the look although they do have a lot more ground clearance. MadDog makes what seems like a close copy of the 6375 and I'd be interested in seeing what Lance Line is building. As far as I know, Hooker discontinued the 6375 and other variants several years ago.     

[TomP]

The 6375's seem to be meant for Mustangs and the fact they come close to fitting Fairlanes is an afterthought and they need trimming to fit them. They hit the back of the crossmember and the rib in the shock tower and watch the steering when the suspension comes up in a turn. I think you need to make a Maverick fit the headers rather than the other way around.

The 68 isn't any different than a 66-67 Fairlane for header fitment.

Looks like acres of space in that truck with the Crown Vic suspension, i'm surprised it fits with a front sump oil pan. Clean job of that.

[cyclonefe]

Kevin,

Ben Line is the only member of the family I have not met.  Lance built my motor and he kept telling me that If I could not find the 6375, Ben could build them, he just said he wasn't cheap. 

REF, are made in Arizona (I believe), and Curtis Coulter had those on his 1968 Cyclone he ran in D/S.  He said they custom made his and had his car for a while.  He has sold the car and I believe it has gone into a museum I heard.

I am attaching photos of my friend's 68 Torino with the new 6375's (from 2011).  In one you can see where the car had the crossmember cut out.

Steve

[Ranch]

Likes and dislikes.  Long tube headers, at least mine, the collector flange is past the bell housing so for us three pedal guys it means dropping the headers to get to the clutch.  Since mine is only a street car if I had to do again I think I would try shorties.  Also I would not have them ceramic coated till after I know they need no massaging.  Hammering on ceramic can crack it, and besides if you are not satisfied with the coating job, you don’t accept it from your local coating guy, you’re not re packaging and sending back to who knows where....JMO

[bobb428]

Kevin,

Ben Line is the only member of the family I have not met.  Lance built my motor and he kept telling me that If I could not find the 6375, Ben could build them, he just said he wasn't cheap. 

REF, are made in Arizona (I believe), and Curtis Coulter had those on his 1968 Cyclone he ran in D/S.  He said they custom made his and had his car for a while.  He has sold the car and I believe it has gone into a museum I heard.

I am attaching photos of my friend's 68 Torino with the new 6375's (from 2011).  In one you can see where the car had the crossmember cut out.

Steve

Curtis' car is for sale right now. Never went into a museum.
462 by Bob Smith, on Flickr

[bobb428]

I did my car like all the 68-69 current NHRA SS cars are set up. Front & mid plate. Dtag link thru the pan. 2-1/8, 2-1/4, 2-3/8 stepped.

My 68 1088 by Bob Smith, on Flickr
My 68 1086 by Bob Smith, on Flickr
My 68 1092 by Bob Smith, on Flickr
My 68 1082 by Bob Smith, on Flickr

[machoneman]

Wow, those are some amazing 90 degree bends around the steering components!

[67428GT500]

The 6114 Mustang/Cougar FE offering no longer has to be drilled for the "GT" head. The ends at the top are slotted. They are no longer manufactured in Mexico and  the only place it required a little nudge was were the pitman arm made a little contact.  In every other way they fit perfectly on both the C6AE-R and the Edelbrock heads.

                                                                                             -Keith

[TomP]

Where does Hooker make them now? I visited there in the mid 80's. We went to their Ontario CA plant and it looked like an industrial building but was converted to offices. Still had electrical cords hanging from the ceiling and air fittings and work benches but added carpet and desks all over. Just down the road was Summers Brothers and the Goldenrod was sitting outside unrestored!

[DuckRyder]

Anyone know what specifically the difference in Sanderson FF427 and FF427CS are? Pictures would be fantastic. I know the CS is for Camper special but not sure what makes them different (Camper specials, at least some of them, have a front anti sway bar).

[TomP]

I think the Camper Special had the sway bar behind the I beams attacked to the track arms. That would affect header fit. I'm sure ones for a Camper Special would fit either style so i'm not sure why they need a non-CamperSpecial version.

[RustyCrankshaft]

Yep, camper special had a "Sway bar" behind the beams and it tied the 2 radius arms together. I can get some pics of my 73 C/S tomorrow. I don't think I've ever seen a header that said it fit a C/S and I've installed very few headers that didn't fit!!! The 73 had some kind of headers on it when I bought it, unsure what brand but they look like Headmans. The biggest problem with truck headers is a lot of them have the port opening so low they'll only fit the later low port like on a D2.

I bought Barry's EMC headers which were Hookers (I was going to say I bought Barry's Hookers but that might overload his phone with calls) and they will work with the ports that are higher exit like a C1AE, etc.

I've never used a set of the FF427's so I have no idea how they fit, although they're tech support guy said the flange opening was big enough for "any" port. They're words, not mine!

[DuckRyder]

Yep like I said at least some CS have the front sway bar, at least where bumpsides go there seems to be controversy as to whether all of them had it or not.

My truck isn’t a Camper Special, I’m just wondering if one or the other exits higher (or lower) which might help or change the exhaust routing.

https://www.sandersonheaders.com/ff427cs-header-set-ford-camper-special-fe-engines.html



https://www.sandersonheaders.com/sanderson-ff427-header-set-for-ford-fe-engines.html?category_id=37

[Rory428]

Many years ago, I found a Camper Special front sway bar, and added it to my 74 F350 ramp truck. Since my original radius rods already had the holes in them, it bolted right in. When I added the sway bar, I had Hedman long tubes on the truck, which cleared the sway bar just fine, as did the FlowTechs that replaced the Hedmans did. That said, a guy I know has a 68 F250 Camper Special, and when he tried the same model of Hedmans that I had, they would not clear the odd looking PS box that his truck had. Unlike the PS box on my 74, his had this large angled lump that pointed toward the engine. I don`t know if this steering box was unique to Camper Specials or not.

[RustyCrankshaft]

Yep like I said at least some CS have the front sway bar, at least where bumpsides go there seems to be controversy as to whether all of them had it or not.

There is a "front" and "front rear" sway bar. The front sway bar is AHEAD of the beams and not an issue for any kind of header. There is also the more common front "rear" sway bar that goes between the radius arms.

There are 2 different integral power steering boxes on the 2wd's. The one you had in your 74 was used for a few years prior to that, but exactly when is a bit of a mystery. I've had 68's with both styles and 70's with both styles.

[thatdarncat]

Here’s a set of Hooker #6376 adjustable race headers. These have the 2” primary tubes. They are similar to the larger tube #6375 Hookers. They have a 3 1/2” collector. I bought these used from a friend recently and abrasive blasted & painted them. I don’t know how old they are. Like the other Hooker FE race headers I don’t think Hooker makes these anymore. They did not come with the “adjustable” tube sections for the primaries, so they are on the shortest possibility. They are listed as fitting both the ‘67-‘70 FE Mustang/Cougar and the ‘66-‘69 FE Fairlane/Torino/Comet/Montego.

*Edited to add - when I first got these and I mocked these up I found one upper bolt hole on each side ( which are slotted ) didn’t line up exactly with the bolt holes in the heads. I tried another pair of heads to be sure, and same issue. It was a simple matter of a little work with the die grinder to clearance the header flange hole a bit more. A small issue, but with as much of a pain as FE headers in a shock tower car are, if I’d have been trying to install them in the car right out of the box it would have been a struggle, and likely tougher to figure out what wasn’t working. Mocking the headers up on a spare engine can be a big help. These headers have the 16 bolt pattern and the person who had these before wasn’t using the upper holes I needed for my heads, so they hadn’t run across the issue. Just an observation. I have run into this issue in the past on different set of headers, one bolt hole on the flange was just slightly off, but I found it ahead of time then also.






The #5 & #6 tubes clear the oil filter by about 1/2”.

[6667fan]

Those snakes are cool Kevin. They would look smashing on a dummy engine in my shop.
Wanna sell them?

[thatdarncat]

Those snakes are cool Kevin. They would look smashing on a dummy engine in my shop.
Wanna sell them?

Sorry, I bought these from my Buddy because I’m going to use them when we break-in & dyno test my 427 soon, then I may be using them in my ‘67 Cougar the 427 is going in.

[427John]

The super tall shelby valve covers are also very cool,I've got a set of the old pro/stock pentroof covers that are really tall too,I haven't measured them but they look significantly taller than a set of cobra lemans covers I have.Did they make those valve covers in different heights or is it just an optical illusion?

[427John]

That got me curious and I went out and measured them,it looks like it was an optical illusion both sets measured about 5" on the high side ad about 4" on the low side.

[preaction]

Kevin, there was a company in Minnesota called Headers by "ED" have you ever run accross a set of those ?

[Nightmist66]

Dad and I both have a set of "Ed's". I wasn't fond of fitment with them. Seems like they hit just about everything possible, including physically touching the oil filter if you're running an FL-1A and the C1, C3, or C8 filter adapter. Clutch linkage clearance is "okay". Flanges were thin and so were the tubes. Mine were 1 3/4" primary and Dad's car currently has the 1 7/8". Both are Fairlanes '66&67. I have a couple pics of the old worn out headers on the old 390 that was in my car.

[thatdarncat]

Kevin, there was a company in Minnesota called Headers by "ED" have you ever run accross a set of those ?

Headers by “ED”were actually very popular around here, and you still see a set in use occasionally when looking around at the dragstrip now days. I have a friend that still has a set on his Scrub-velle. Maybe one of the other locals will comment, my experience is limited. I moved back to the Twin Cities area after graduating high school right after when our two local dragstrips had closed, so I never had a chance to check out any FE versions on a car back then, and by the time I was racing at Brainerd I don’t remember seeing any FE ones. Ed usually had a booth at the big winter car shows around here back then, and I talked to him a couple times about FE headers for my 427 I was building at the time, but eventually I ended up going with Hookers. I don’t remember exactly why, but one reason might have been since his headers were pretty much made to order I never had a chance to check out ahead what they would look like. And if I remember I think they were quite a bit more expensive too. It wasn’t much longer after that that I heard Ed had changed to only selling his headers as weld together kits, and not as complete headers any more. He kept on like that for quite a few more years. One of Ed’s main selling points was that he tried to make all his headers equal length within 1/4”. Ed’s shop was in a garage not far from where I lived, and I drove by a couple times, but never caught him outside. I dug out my old Headers by “ED” literature so people not familiar can check it out. I don’t have anything with prices. All the Headers by “ED” I’ve seen over the years have the tag welded on them mentioned on the flyer.

[preaction]

I have a set that escaped being rusted out I remember Ed being "very" theory orientated and a big parts kits seller.

[cammerfe]

Hard to get on the phone, but when you got him he'd talk for at least an hour. And quite knowledgeably.

KS

[Royce]

Ed, now there is one of the true eccentrics in the hobby.. Back 25 yr ago I was putting a MEL in a 48 pickup and I decided I needed some block hugger headers.. There were no flanges available for that engine so I call Ed... I must have spent 3 or 4 hours on the phone over a 6 mo period trying to get these flanges..  Most of the time was taken up by him expounding on header theory and telling me why all the name brand stuff was crap and why he had special insights into header design. We argued for a long time about my intention to use a block hugger style header.. His contention was the primaries being so close to the block would cause the engine to overheat..Which I thought was ridiculous, but that was Ed.. he also could not remind me often enough the he was the ONLY supplier who could make me a MEL flange.. They were anything but pieces of art  lol

[John67427]

I have used 3 different sets of headers on my FE 1967 Fairlane. Hooker 6375’s, Kustom Headers - # 3-4 and6-7 cross under the oil pan to the opposite side and Crites. I never could get the Hooker 6375’s to fit and ended up selling them to RJ Sledge . The Kustom headers would work with a T pan where the Crites would not. I have since purchased a set of REF’s but have not tried to fit them yet. Thanks for the oil filter adaptor info. Was not aware of that issue with the REF’s.

[preaction]

These also are a often not seen set of FE headers.

[CV355]

What are the chances post #2 from 2018 happens to be the same headers I was trying to identify...

I wanted to make sure that the primaries on cylinders 5 and 6 would clear the Moroso oil pan.  Can't wait to get those things mounted now that they look brand new from Jet-Hot, I'd hate for there to be a clearance issue. 

[thatdarncat]

What are the chances post #2 from 2018 happens to be the same headers I was trying to identify...

That was my hope with this post is that it would help people on header choices, or issues to watch for. I really hope people will continue to add pictures of other FE headers to the thread. The idea was to group a bunch of the info in one place. It should help too when people who aren’t on the forum here search the web too.

I’d still like to see feedback from anyone that buys the cheap headers off eBay, as far as what they fit or don’t fit. I continue to see people report buying them, because the low price is tempting, but it also seems to be total hit or miss whether they fit anything, or are totally useless. Maybe with some info sharing we can find out which ones have hope.

[frnkeore]

It seems like this thread would make a very useful "Sticky", rather than a hit and miss subject thread.

[WerbyFord]

Thread over on fordfe.com says these are Belangers, 63-64 Galaxie (could be 60-64, not sure).

https://www.fordfe.com/hooker-super-comp-6205-t164924.html

Test fitted on the 396 we built for my dad's car i 1977. We didnt cut the car to put em on, used 406 iron instead.
Note Model "A" wheel at upper right, and good old kerosene stove to keep us warm, back in the day it used to get nippy in Michigan.

[cammerfe]

The cross-under headers we used on Brother Lon's '67 Mustang/427 TP were made by 'Bondo' Larson here in the metro Detroit area. (He didn't like 'Bondo'). He was a jack-of-all-trades at DST.

The cross-under pipes never made any difference at all inside the oil pan.

KS

[427John]

Was the 396 as in .030 over 390 or as in destroked 427 like they ran in Nascar for a while?Do the cross under pipes give a significant power increase or is it mainly for fitment? 

[cammerfe]

Larson's were VERY close to being equal length. Some don't think it's very important, but some DO. Larson was one.

KS

[WerbyFord]

Was the 396 as in .030 over 390 or as in destroked 427 like they ran in Nascar for a while?Do the cross under pipes give a significant power increase or is it mainly for fitment?

If you mean the picture I posted, nothing fancy, just 30-over 390. The forged pistons were the big ticket item at $20 - EACH!! $160 for 8 pistons, you could darn near buy a running car for that. The headers had just come with another 390 Gal, rust-free, we bought the car & free headers for $500 or something.

They're NOT 180-degree headers, there's still a pair that fires at 90 degrees on each side, so they dont make that awful import-style buzzy sound.
Probably the routing was an effort to make them near equal length so tuned for a peaky engine or one that's kept near peak revs.

From the header modeling I've done you probably would get a higher HP peak right there, but you'd pay for it elsewhere in the curve.

[427John]

I ask because I have a set of the Dougs headers and they have the cross under,and was curious.

[TomP]

They cross under the pan to get the length on the back tubes without using a big loop. I made my 64 Fairlane headers like that. Just one tube each side.

[cammerfe]

I ask because I have a set of the Dougs headers and they have the cross under,and was curious.

The comment above regarding the 'import, buzzy sound' is solidly in my memory as the sound of an original Ford GT 40. To my mind, there is no more wonderful engine sound, with the possible exception of the headers and glasspacks on my '53 Merc flathead,

KS

[frnkeore]

The comment above regarding the 'import, buzzy sound' is solidly in my memory as the sound of an original Ford GT 40. To my mind, there is no more wonderful engine sound, with the possible exception of the headers and glasspacks on my '53 Merc flathead,

KS

 I like it, too. It's been around on Fords, since 1963.

[Heo]

I remember a dragster i saw in the 80s with a Cleveland and headers like that
A sounds of its own

[RustyCrankshaft]

Not model specific, but I did find out today that FPA is sourcing their headers from a different place now. For many years they were getting their headers made by Stan's Headers in Auburn Washington. One of the main header builders at Stan's left to start his own shop and has been building headers for FPA for a little while now. Trying to get his contact info - not sure if he is wholesale only or not but I would imagine he will sell to the public.

[427John]

At one time Stan was FPA,is that not the case anymore?

[RustyCrankshaft]

At one time Stan was FPA,is that not the case anymore?

As far as I know Stan's headers has always been a separate company but I could be wrong. Stan's, as far as I know and as long as I've dealt with them has just done headers/exhaust.

[Blueoval77]

Well I guess you all are going to force me to make my set of Dougs presentable and bolt them on an engine thats on a stand for show and tell.

[427John]

Many years ago I went to the FPA shop when it was over in Puyallup and talked to the guy who was named Stan maybe it was coincidence that they're both named Stan.This was back when they were just starting to sell headers their number of applications was still pretty limited mostly to truck and mustang as was most of the other stuff they had there then.I think it was like the early to mid 90's.

[RustyCrankshaft]

Many years ago I went to the FPA shop when it was over in Puyallup and talked to the guy who was named Stan maybe it was coincidence that they're both named Stan.This was back when they were just starting to sell headers their number of applications was still pretty limited mostly to truck and mustang as was most of the other stuff they had there then.I think it was like the early to mid 90's.

Ah, that makes sense. Those are different Stan's! Stan Fuller is the header guy. Not sure he's even involved in the company anymore, I think he started the company at 62, at any rate I haven't seen him around the place for a few years.

[427John]

That's funny because there was another Stan in the Fife area that everybody called Stan the Ford Man he had a ton of Galaxies and Galaxie parts maybe thats the same guy.

[Tommy-T]

Got my Comet back the Pipeman for headers.
Some picks.

[427John]

Just a comment on the original post,I personally have found the pictures very helpful and I think most people would agree that this definitely was not a dumb idea.

[Cobrajet2]

I think this post is a great idea and can be really informative.  Figured I would add a couple pictures to help keep it going. I got these Kustom brand headers years ago from the a member on the 428Cobrajet forum and they have been sitting on a shelf for a while. I was told they don't interfere with the clutch linkage on 69-70 CJ Mustangs.  I still plan to use them some day,  so we shall see.

[yellercat]

OK, will put my line in the water here.....

1969 F-250 (Camper Special) 2WD, 390, and a C-6 auto

Installed a cheapo set of Jeg's headers (#30075) for the breakin' period  and all was fine till the driver side exit which interferes with the transmission linkage in a big way. Like from 'drive thru 2 and 1 gears'.  Probably 3/4 " or better by the time its altered. Not sure I want to dent them this much; plus the exit does not line up with the flowmaster exhaust system tailored to the auxillary gas tank, so there's that too.
Here's the thing. There is plenty of room to the 'outside' of the car there for a different exit point for the headers. Question is, does anyone have similar experience or a better 'cheapo' break in header fit. Looking at the Flowtech # 12542  and it looks to be a possibility.....
On a good note, there was no other interference issues whatsoever. I do not have power steering, which seems to be one of the common issues with this model. Will try to get an underneath pic to illustrate.

[482supersnake]

I think this post is a great idea and can be really informative.  Figured I would add a couple pictures to help keep it going. I got these Kustom brand headers years ago from the a member on the 428Cobrajet forum and they have been sitting on a shelf for a while. I was told they don't interfere with the clutch linkage on 69-70 CJ Mustangs.  I still plan to use them some day,  so we shall see.

Those are a Headman header. I had those on my 66 Cyclone GT. No problem with the clutch linkage.

[TomP]

I sold these years ago and recently got them back just a little worse for wear. 620L and 620R stamped on them, no idea the original application but can say with authority they didn't fit a Fairlane. 2" primary, 3 1/2" collector, no removable tubes.

[turbohunter]

Save those Coronas

[Gregwill16]

That is hilarious Tom, I just made a post on the old forum earlier about an identical set, trying to figure out what they are (link below). I would've posted here but much easier to post pictures over there.

Same set, so hopefully someone knows the application? They almost worked on a manual 64 Galaxie, so may be for an automatic Galaxie.
https://www.fordfe.com/fe-headers-t165395.html

[CV355]

Just a PSA, if you ever go to install REF headers with individual primaries on a '69 Mustang, do them in this order:  3214 / 7658

Cylinders 3, 5, and 7 need to have the upper header bolts pre-threaded or they may strike against the shock towers depending on the exact position of the block.  Many swears were sworn this past weekend, and we had to remove 1-4 to reinstall because one bolt was making contact with the shock tower.  I thought I was doing the right thing by leaving the shock towers in place as it's an original-body 428 car, but I'm regretting not tearing those shock towers out for a coilover kit and throwing the shock towers in the garbage where they belong, maybe after punching some 30-cal holes through them first. 

[bill_396]

Every time the engine comes out of my 68 Mustang with tower braces and REFs more access holes go in the shock towers. I have BT heads making it even worse. Some places have 6pt bolts, some 12pt.. Getting to be pretty good with a crow's foot on a universal wrapped in electrical tape. Also have an assortment of cut and welded 7/16" wrenches now. Excellent reason to have another beer.

[Joe-JDC]

Next time you go to install headers in a FE shock tower car, put a jack under the big round bar that goes between the frame rails and lift the front end up entirely by the bar.  Surprising how much more room you will have for those header bolts.  Ask me how I know?  Even cars with low mileage had the problem of body flexing inward enough to contact the header bolts without the aftermarket shock tower brace.  Joe-JDC

[Rory428]

Many years ago I went to the FPA shop when it was over in Puyallup and talked to the guy who was named Stan maybe it was coincidence that they're both named Stan.This was back when they were just starting to sell headers their number of applications was still pretty limited mostly to truck and mustang as was most of the other stuff they had there then.I think it was like the early to mid 90's.

Ah, that makes sense. Those are different Stan's! Stan Fuller is the header guy. Not sure he's even involved in the company anymore, I think he started the company at 62, at any rate I haven't seen him around the place for a few years.

Sorry such a late response, but yes, there are (were?) 2 different Stans involved with the headers sold by FPA. Stan Johnson is the owner of FPA, and the actual headers he sells thru FPA were made at Stans Headers, owned by the "other" Stan. Although Stans Headers was a long time custom header builder in the Seattle area, I am pretty sure the headers that they built for FPA are make exclusively for Stan Johnson, to sell thru FPA, and the jigs for making the headers are the property of Mr. Johnson. I first met Stan Johnson at the drags at Bremerton Washington, where he was racing his 70 Boss 302 Mustang, and his Pantera, back in the early 80s, before FPA was started. Stan does sell other Ford parts, and engines, but I think that headers are a big portion of FPA`s business. I have nothing but praise for the FPA headers on 428 CJ in my 59 2 door sedan. They fit very nicely, in a pretty tight chassis, are of very nice quality, with thick flanges, and they do not leak. Unlike the big name headers, the FPA FE headers are available with the correct flange configuration, to fit each version properly, with no need for slotted bolt holes.

[thatdarncat]

I ran across the picture of these on Facebook recently, just thought I’d add them here for posterity. Something you don’t see everyday, guy was thinking of buying them. Hopefully this doesn’t take the post sideways.

[CV355]

Next time you go to install headers in a FE shock tower car, put a jack under the big round bar that goes between the frame rails and lift the front end up entirely by the bar.  Surprising how much more room you will have for those header bolts.  Ask me how I know?  Even cars with low mileage had the problem of body flexing inward enough to contact the header bolts without the aftermarket shock tower brace.  Joe-JDC

We have ours on a mid-rise lift, but I did find it odd how easy the REFs were to take out before the car was on the lift...  That's a lot of body flex!!

We have TFS heads now, and the exhaust ports don't line up perfectly with the shock tower notches, so there is contact in two areas.  I had to machine down one bolt and put a step in the header flange for the top bolt on Cyl 3.  Cyl 3 and 5 required lifting the engine up 1/2" to start the bolt.  I then slotted the flanges. 

3 weekends now... 

[TomP]

Whoa Kevin, someone horrified those manifolds with those ugly cutouts! What would ever cause someone to do that rather than simply make the first few inches of pipe have the cutouts? I guess they can be cut off and the holes patched. Hope you got them cheap.

[cammerfe]

Back in '64, I put 'dumps' on my '64 Custom by using 15 inches of 3 inch pipe on each side with a 3-bolt flange on the back end. Used a 'U' bend cut in half to hook each side back to the H pipe. I, too, cringed to see the waterpipe openings.

KS

[yellercat]

Circling back to my Reply #73 on the truck headers with resolution of fitment. Put the jegs' headers aside and got a pair of Hookers with the 2 1/2 inch collector. No more automatic trans linkage interference and its a slide on transition instead of the three bolt flange fittings, so saves that room also. Lucked out eye guess. Also using a 10" flex type coupling that ties nicely into the flowmaster exhaust system designed for these trucks; which avoids interference with the auxillary fuel tanks. All FWIW to anyone looking for those old F-100 exhaust 'solutions'.