FAST - Factory Appearing Stock Tire Class - What to build?

[TTA89]

I came across the rules and love this idea, I wished they raced closer to me. https://www.fastdrags.com/fast-rules  I have been hallucinating about which FE powered car would have the potential to go faster following the rules.  I think the biggest factor here would be the head and intake rules:

"2.03 Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifold MUST be correct* OEM casting, have correct* original casting numbers and be of correct* original material.
This may very well be the most important and teched F.A.S.T. rule.
Note: Any cylinder head or intake manifold that is not the correct* casting number, must be approved and published on the F.A.S.T. website.
Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process."


Stroker kits, roller cams (Must have stock idle), head porting are all allowed if you can't see them.  The rules aren't clear but I assume aftermarket blocks are not allowed.  If you were to build a clone of something to take advantage of blocks and heads what would it be?

These are the three cars I think have the best potential for being the fastest examples if built to the rules:

1. 67 Cougar GT-E with 427SO/C6  With a stroker kit would anything else beat it?
2. 68 Mustang GT Coupe with 428CJ/C6
3. 67 GT500 with 428PI/C6  I'm not sure if the factory dual quads would be a better advantage?

What do you think?  Built strictly to race in this class, how quick?  Mid 10s?

[FASTLane]

If you are set on FE, ask yourself, what FE head flows the best that was offered in a production car?

[jayb]

My friend and former Drag Week trunk monkey Joel Nystrom ran FAST for several years; if I recall correctly his Hemi GTX was the first FAST car in the 10s, years ago.  Anyway, since you can lighten the car to death and make internal engine mods, including more cubic inches, as long as the car and engine appear stock, I'd be looking at something with a medium riser 2X4 intake like the 67 Shelby or a 66 Fairlane.  The Fairlane may have an advantage due to the medium riser heads, but if you could port the factory PI heads that came on the Shelby to flow the same as ported medium risers, it would probably be a wash.  The Fairlane would probably hook better on those skinny tires, though...

[chilly460]

As stated, I'd be building a '66 Fairlane R code.  Best true production heads, best production intake, big bore, big valves, stronger block. 

[pbf777]

     "There will be a 560 cubic inch limit on all engines except the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes."

     Yes, I agree the '66-'67 Fairlane would make a good competitor, but I just might lean toward the '71 "J" code 429SCJ Mustang with the above statement in the rules.     

     I'm kinda amazed at this ruling, though not complaining, as GM has had way to many favors in the rule making over the decades, but still............?     

     Scott.

[chilly460]

Well ported CJs for a 385 series approach 400cfm, but I'm wondering if there's a factory intake that wouldn't hinder the combo, seems the factory SCJ deal would be way too small to feed it. 

[e philpott]

The exhaust manifolds is what's hurting on a 429 compared to the other makes ?

[Hemi Joel]

Jay, my GTX was not the first FAST car in the 10's, that was Wayne Nelsons 68 ZL1 Corvette. My Hemi GTX was the first FAST Mopar in the 10's and the first FAST 4 speed car in the 10's. 

I think a dual quad 67 Fairlane 427 would be one of the best FE powered choices. I would love to see a Cougar GTE running strong, but the Fairlane will probably have better weight distribution and of course the extra carb with open air filter is a big plus.   A 1966 427 Fairlane might hit this roadblock: "The car year, make, model, body style and engine combination must all have been produced and available to the general public in the year claimed, in an actual car.”


One of my very favorite things about FAST is that it is REAL RACING with no break-outs, no index, no handicaps, no weights, no HP/LB rules, and you can never lose by going too fast. There is no attempt by the organization to create "parity". No classes, all run together. The better cars have an advantage, just like the day they were built, and they will not be punished for being better. But still, the stock tires are the great equalizer and there are many upsets and surprises, and the outcome of any given race is unpredictable. Driver skill is of paramount importance. The quickest 8 qualifiers go at it in a heads up pro ladder to determine the top eliminator. Qualifiers 9 and slower go into a best of 3 shootout with their closest qualifying competitor, so they all get a good, fun, close race.

That is why picking the right car is so important. Some stuff to consider when picking a car for FAST: Most of the factory bottlenecks must remain. Some are a deal killer. Correct heads- how much will they flow? Correct block - how many cubes and how durable will it be? Can the oiling system support high RPM without external modifications? What is the flow capability of the stock air filter assembly, the intake manifold, carb(s), exhaust manifolds?  What is the potential weight and weight distribution?  It is all important.  But what ever car you choose, you will have an awesome time with great competition, lots of challenges, and one of the best bunch of racers you will meet.

 Go for it, good luck!

[pbf777]

 "..................the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes."


     Maybe, just go for the cubes, slow the revolutions in order to fill the cylinders (the cast iron SCJ intake does have a lot of internal area, & the SCJ exhaust manifolds aren't that bad.), trick out the carburetor as much as possible, use an aggressive (big!) requiring lower R.P.M. to keep the valve train stable camshaft, be conservative on the gear ratio, ................ and let it pull!   

     Scott.

[FASTLane]

Or you could purchase the Red 1971 mach 1 that ran in FAST, its for sale.

[mike7570]

     "There will be a 560 cubic inch limit on all engines except the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes."

     Yes, I agree the '66-'67 Fairlane would make a good competitor, but I just might lean toward the '71 "J" code 429SCJ Mustang with the above statement in the rules.     

     I'm kinda amazed at this ruling, though not complaining, as GM has had way to many favors in the rule making over the decades, but still............?     

     Scott.

620ci Boss 429 

Correction 1967 AC Cobra

[frnkeore]

"2.03 Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifold MUST be correct* OEM casting, have correct* original casting numbers and be of correct* original material.
This may very well be the most important and teched F.A.S.T. rule.
Note: Any cylinder head or intake manifold that is not the correct* casting number, must be approved and published on the F.A.S.T. website.
Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process."


Stroker kits, roller cams (Must have stock idle), head porting are all allowed if you can't see them.  The rules aren't clear but I assume aftermarket blocks are not allowed.  If you were to build a clone of something to take advantage of blocks and heads what would it be?

It would seem to be hard to get past the above, underlined rule or, is it ignored?

"The car year, make, model, body style and engine combination must all have been produced and available to the general public in the year claimed, in an actual car.”

Would this include the T-Bolt? From the stock idle rule, it might be the best.

Edit:
I also like the Cobra but, traction might be a problem.

[427John]

     "There will be a 560 cubic inch limit on all engines except the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes."

     Yes, I agree the '66-'67 Fairlane would make a good competitor, but I just might lean toward the '71 "J" code 429SCJ Mustang with the above statement in the rules.     

     I'm kinda amazed at this ruling, though not complaining, as GM has had way to many favors in the rule making over the decades, but still............?     

     Scott.

Sounds like they wrote that rule to nullify any advantage to using an aftermarket block since that is about where the stock BBC block will top out,while you can easily exceed 560 with a stock 429/460 block if you find a thick one.

[pbf777]

    Just as an example to what I might be suggesting in the way of low R.P.M. pull:  We built an N.A., 600 cu. in. 385 series, with ported CJ heads, Weiand Stealth dual plane intake (unmodified, maybe a gasket-match), an out of the box 850 Holley (with tuning of course     ), big fat roller cam that I discussed with Dave Crower over, this for an airboat installation, aka, low-speed torque with very limited R.P.M. capability due to maximum allowable prop speed (max engine R.P.M. with the gear box ratio being used was 5200 R.P.M.'s +/-; but in the end the customer blew-up the 84"(?) 4-blade "Maximus" - "Wide-Blade" carbon-fiber prop, which sank the boat!     ); it produced in excess of 600 ft. lbs. of torque @ 2000 R.P.M.'s, topping out at 660 ft. lbs. +/- @ say 4200-4600 R.P.M.'s, and didn't drop below 600 ft. lbs. until about 5200 +/- R.P.M.'s with perhaps major valve train stability concerns at anything over say 6500 + R.P.M.s.

    Now this wasn't any kind of astonishing feat, but it was intended to use "pump" gas (<10:1), to be reasonably reliable with extended operating periods at speed and always under load, simple to maintain as the owner wasn't a "wrench", enduring a rather harsh environment (engine operation on airboats is a lot like being on the dyno full-time     ).  In a car with an automatic transmission with a reasonably tight converter and appropriate gear ratio(s) (might still use a low gear set in a C6), I would bet it would accelerate thru the quarter rather briskly.   

    Scott. 

[427John]

As far as the OP's original question,I would think the 427 TP would be at the top due to the TP top end and the 427's .100 larger bore will make the displacement just that much bigger with the stroker crank over the 428.Do FAST cars have to be cars that were originally built with that engine or can they be clones?If clones are allowed can Cobra kit cars be used if it is a faithful reproduction?

[wayne]

701/2 falcon 557 scj  4speed

[Gregwill16]

With those rules and trying to win, I don't see how you could look past an early 70's Torino or Mustang with a 620" 385 series. But if loyal to the FE like most of us on here, I would build a MR 66-67 Fairlane.

[machoneman]

Like the idea of a big CID engine but.....

I wonder, if like in the old days, one took a small CID engine and wound it up to killer rpms, if it would be competitive. I only bring this up if big engines would blow of the tires and kill the 0-60 ft. times. Thinking of MP classes where (sadly) small CID SBC's killed a lot of classes (C/MP, D/MP, etc.).

If one can't well hook up the mandated small tires....the one that does wins.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

14.00 TIRES AND WHEELS AND BRAKES

14.01 Wheels must be correct*, including correct* diameter, width and material.

Note: Width may be upgraded to a maximum of 6”, if the correct* wheel is narrower than that. Reproduction wheels OK.

14.02 All 4 wheels and tires must be same size.

Exception: Mopar TA Challenger came from factory with G-60’s on rear and F-60’s on front.

14.03 Original equipment reproduction bias-ply tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed.

Retread tires are not allowed. Any car is allowed to upgrade to a maximum size tire of G-70 of the correct* wheel diameter.

All cars that were originally available with a 60 series tire can upgrade to a maximum size of G-60 tire of the correct* wheel diameter.

Exception: First time F.A.S.T. participants are allowed to run normal ’non-sticky’ street radials for their first F.A.S.T. race.

[frnkeore]

14.03 Original equipment reproduction bias-ply tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed.

So....... Where do you get these tires?

How about these G60's

[4twennyAint]

In 2009 Lane Carey took a 71 MACh1 429 SCJ to a F.A.S.T. record of 9.84 making 800+ HP. 

It was featured in Hemmings: Ford 385-series "big-block" V-8, cast-iron block and cylinder heads Block -- Ford casting number D0VE (1970), service-replacement 460; two-bolt main converted to four-bolt splayed caps, cooling jackets filled with "hard block" and fitted with screw-in core plugs Cylinder heads -- Ford casting number D0OE-R (1970-'71 429 CJ/SCJ) Camshaft -- Custom, gun-drilled solid-roller of undisclosed specifications, by Bullet Racing Cams, mounted in roller bearings Valvetrain -- Shaft-mount aluminum roller-rocker arms by W.W. Engineering, Jesel mechanical roller lifters Pistons -- Ross custom-forged with titanium wrist pins Connecting rods -- GRP Pro-Stock aluminum Crankshaft -- Crower custom billet Ultralight knife-edged, pendulum-cut, gun-drilled, with 351C main-journal diameter Displacement -- 588 cubic inches Bore x stroke -- 4.450 x 4.750 inches Compression ratio -- 14.7:1 Horsepower @ RPM -- 825 @ 6,200 Torque @ RPM -- Approximately 800 @ 4,500 Fuel system -

[machoneman]

https://www.429-460.com/t7215-new-f-a-s-t-record-by-lane-carey

[Gregwill16]

Awesome car!

I assume any safety features like a cage are allowed, even though it is certainly not factory appearing?

[frnkeore]

Again, where do you get bias, non soft, G60 or 70 tires that will get you into the 9's?

Jack Chrisman, in his Comet, with soft, wide slicks didn't go much faster than that. Slower in his first year, I think.

[thatdarncat]

Again, where do you get bias, non soft, G60 or 70 tires that will get you into the 9's?

Jack Chrisman, in his Comet, with soft, wide slicks didn't go much faster than that. Slower in his first year, I think.

They use the available reproduction tires, with some prep work. I think our resident FAST racer Hemi Joel is busy working on his Drag Week Coupe at the moment, maybe he will come back on at some point with more details. Starting line launch technique is the key, you can’t launch it like something with slicks obviously.

[Rory428]

Again, where do you get bias, non soft, G60 or 70 tires that will get you into the 9's?

Jack Chrisman, in his Comet, with soft, wide slicks didn't go much faster than that. Slower in his first year, I think.

Obviously the car would be MUCH quicker with slicks, based on 1.52 60 foot times, I would guess at least 1/2 second quicker with slicks. With over 800 HP, I imagine that they are leaving with these cars with timing pulled back, and leaving at part throttle. Sounds like a pretty radical engine combination, and I imagine despite plenty of work on the iron heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, there is a fair bit more power to be had with better aftermarket components, but it was built to meet the pretty liberal rules of the  FAST rulebook. Much like NHRA Stock and Super Stock, racers find ways to optimize their combinations in spite of what appear to be restrictive rules.

[Hemi Joel]

Frank, the tires are right out of the Coker catalog.  It is so fun to go to a test and tune, or bracket race with a FAST car, that looks 100% stock including exhaust to the rear bumper and G70-14's, then at the 1000' drive on past a race car on slicks with open headers, that has the whole Summit catalog thrown at it. Then leave the hood open in the pits and watch from afar as racers look it over, look under it, and get a puzzled look.

That is the magic of FAST!

[mbrunson427]

OK how about this one....... '65 Galaxie 427. This is virtually the same engine combo as the 66-67 Fairlane, but gets long tube headers. Has a coil spring rear end with ladder bars. I'd think you could get it to hook?! Of course there's a weight penalty here, but it seems to me that making the power isn't the problem, it's applying the power that gets you.

[frnkeore]

Joel, thank you for explaining that for me.

[babybolt]

The 66 67 Fairlane 427 right side exhaust manifold might be a bottleneck.

Heard that for another Ford engine, someone had aluminum exhaust manifolds cast for the FAST series.  Easier to port.

[4twennyAint]

65 Galaxy exhaust is definitely the one for sleeper power.  What's the biggest tire option that year...police pkg?

[TomP]

65, 66 or 67 Custom sedan 427 would be good. I'm not sure you can get it anywhere near as light as a Fairlane though.  I think Joel's GTX and Steve's 67 Fairlane had several hundred pounds removed very cleverly (Joel showed me the aluminum brake and clutch pedals!)

[FASTLane]

Cubic inch RULES that class. 620 Boss or SCJ if you want to be in the front

[frnkeore]

Are there any T-Bolts running in FAST?

Seems like a 500+ FE with high flowing HR heads, would do very well.

[427John]

Are there any T-Bolts running in FAST?

Seems like a 500+ FE with high flowing HR heads, would do very well.

I guess it depends on whether you can fit a 4.75" or 5.00" stroke crank into an FE block if so then you might be able to generate the broad flat power curves the 620 inch engines can,I think its a matter of being able to use the limited traction of the tires wherever you can get it on the track,and not having to wait for your combination to get into its power band.

[frnkeore]

You might be able to do a 4.88 stroke, with a 1.88 crank pin. I would think 4.70 for sure.

[C8OZ]

No factory lightweights allowed, so it doesn't seem like there'd be a spot anywhere for a HR.

[hbstang]

i watched a video on the orange zl1 69 camaro/black corvette, and they shave the tires down to zero tread and run them like a slick.really?i would think the tech would want some tread for safety reason,the tire must be pretty thin at that point.it really does look like a slick to.and they are running 9s on those.
as for cars,my vote would be 67 fairlane med riser dual quad,or for fun,1969 boss 429 mustang.i think you could get it pretty light and in the low 10s pretty easy at 620 cubes.also had f60 15 from the factory.down side on that is the 735 carb.but hey,super stock 68 cj mustang went 9.56 in legal trim with a 735 factory type carb!actually,a 68 coupe with a max size fe and max ported cj heads may do pretty good if there is no weight minimum.
not a cheap form of racing thats for sure!

[JERICOGTX]

The killer to most combo's is the carb choice. You can build the biggest engine you want, but the cork is still going to be carb CFM. The Combo Dave Dudek is running now in the Cuda, makes nearly 1000hp, through ex manifolds, stock type carbs, and original head castings. It's a VERY tough combo to compete against.

[machoneman]

The killer to most combo's is the carb choice. You can build the biggest engine you want, but the cork is still going to be carb CFM. The Combo Dave Dudek is running now in the Cuda, makes nearly 1000hp, through ex manifolds, stock type carbs, and original head castings. It's a VERY tough combo to compete against.

What carbs then? Tri-power for big cfm's?

[427LX]

 Carbs have to LOOK stock. You can open up the venturi and use larger throttle bores.  Some engines have better factory intake manifolds to start with and you can only port them so much and same for exhaust manifolds. Regarding the factory light weights such as the T-bolt and 68 Hemi Darts and Cudas....the factory pull smallest cheapest tires on them since it was only for transport purposes. Would be hard to hook up in 2nd gear!

Now why can't the 65-67 427 Cobras run in FAST? There were a total of 206 427 Cobras built.  There were only 216 L-88 Corvettes built from1967-69.  Only 2 1969 Z-L1 Corvettes were built.

[Hemi Joel]

Now why can't the 65-67 427 Cobras run in FAST? There were a total of 206 427 Cobras built.  There were only 216 L-88 Corvettes built from1967-69.  Only 2 1969 Z-L1 Corvettes were built.

The Cobras are not considered a muscle car by class rules. There was a lot more than 2 69 L88's built. 214 between 68-69. '67 was the year of only 2

[SSdynosaur]

  Regarding the factory light weights such as the T-bolt and 68 Hemi Darts and Cudas....the factory pull smallest cheapest tires on them since it was only for transport purposes.

Can't speak for the Darts and Cudas but, supposedly, all T-bolts left DST equipped with Firestone Lightning 7" cheater slicks mounted in the rear (drive) positions. Examples of those would be very difficult to find in modern times.

[The Real McCoy]

Corvette L88 breakdown is as follows....,

1967 is 20.
1968 is 80.
1969 is 116.

Total L88 production for 1967 to 1969 is 216.

1969 ZL1 production is 2, this is the aluminum block "L88".

[Hemi Joel]

Corvette L88 breakdown is as follows....,

1967 is 20.
1968 is 80.
1969 is 116.

Total L88 production for 1967 to 1969 is 216.

1969 ZL1 production is 2, this is the aluminum block "L88".

How are we supposed to mess up the internet with flawed information with you here?

[427John]

Now why can't the 65-67 427 Cobras run in FAST? There were a total of 206 427 Cobras built.  There were only 216 L-88 Corvettes built from1967-69.  Only 2 1969 Z-L1 Corvettes were built.

The Cobras are not considered a muscle car by class rules. There was a lot more than 2 69 L88's built. 214 between 68-69. '67 was the year of only 2

I don't understand why the Cobras are barred from the series,if it's not considered a musclecar why is the Corvette?They raced in the same classes in drag racing and road racing.The top end Corvettes were no more affordable than a top end Cobra.If the Corvette were excluded then I could see the reasoning,but singling out the Cobra makes it appear as if they are just ruling out a car that they know has the potential to dominate the series.kind of reminds you of Nascar in the Big Bill France days.

[The Real McCoy]

Corvette L88 breakdown is as follows....,

1967 is 20.
1968 is 80.
1969 is 116.

Total L88 production for 1967 to 1969 is 216.

1969 ZL1 production is 2, this is the aluminum block "L88".

How are we supposed to mess up the internet with flawed information with you here?

Geez Joel, I’m really sorry for pointing out your minor infraction. I spent quite a bit of time on the dark side until I figured out these old Galaxie’s are more fun than Corvettes. My 30 year collection of Corvette Black Books made it pretty easy to point out your little error. Maybe a point of interest is a 69 Corvette coupe base price was $4781.00, add in a L88 for $1032.15 and if you have a lot of extra cash the ZL-1 option (aluminum block L88 version) would cost you a mere $4718.35.

When you start throwing out facts on MOPAR’s, Duesenberg’s or even Maytag’s you will probably notice I will be very quiet and won’t be making any corrections. LOL

[JERICOGTX]

Could you go down to your local Ford dealer, and order a new Cobra, or was it through a special dealer only?

[427LX]

They are getting over 800 HP at the wheels now with this Hemi at 820 @9000 RPM.     https://youtu.be/Kcuhbjw9if4

[mbrunson427]

With a medium riser 427 punched out to 530-540 cubes, I would assume the same results could be had. You'd have as much money into it as a super stock engine though.

I'm afraid I would spend my money in a different manner.....somebody on here should do it though! 

[frnkeore]

Now why can't the 65-67 427 Cobras run in FAST? There were a total of 206 427 Cobras built.  There were only 216 L-88 Corvettes built from1967-69.  Only 2 1969 Z-L1 Corvettes were built.

The Cobras are not considered a muscle car by class rules. There was a lot more than 2 69 L88's built. 214 between 68-69. '67 was the year of only 2

I don't understand why the Cobras are barred from the series,if it's not considered a musclecar why is the Corvette?They raced in the same classes in drag racing and road racing.The top end Corvettes were no more affordable than a top end Cobra.If the Corvette were excluded then I could see the reasoning,but singling out the Cobra makes it appear as if they are just ruling out a car that they know has the potential to dominate the series.kind of reminds you of Nascar in the Big Bill France days.

I have to agree and while the Cobra's are lighter the BBC has many more cubes available, over the FE.

FAST doesn't want to become another NHRA, does it, like it did in cutting out the 385?

[JERICOGTX]

The Cobra is excluded because it wasn't built on a factory assembly line. They were hand built cars. The Corvette went down an assembly line just like a boring Impala, or Nova. The rules basically say it must be a production vehicle, that wasn't some special option, no one knew about, and had to go through hoops to get it. The Aluminum block ZL-1 WAS advertised as a option on the cars. Just were not many made, as that option was very expensive in the day.

[frnkeore]

Still, they competed directly against each other in SCCA and at the drags and like the L 88 & ZL 1, all you had to do, is have the money to buy one and it was yours.

Now, if you had a rule that said a minimum of 1000 cars had to be made, I could see excluding cars because they were "special".

Even 1000 cars isn't very many cars, in a Big 3 line up.

That said, it is JMO and I don't race in the organization but, it does seem a little unfair.

[Rory428]

I would think that ever if a 427 Cobra was allowed, I doubt that a fiberglass replica would be acceptable. Are the Corvettes required to retain the factory IRS? If so, and the Cobra needed to retain it's original IRS, I doubt that would be a good thing, especially with a 4 speed. Could be tough finding a real Cobra owner willing to make a race car out of his Million $+ investment.

[JERICOGTX]

Are the Corvettes required to retain the factory IRS?

Yes they are. That is another thing about FAST, cars must retain factory suspension. No slapper bars, or Cal Trac type bars allowed. Cars must look like they just rolled out of the dealer showroom.

[428kidd]

FAST doesn't want to become another NHRA, does it, like it did in cutting out the 385?


FAST cut out the 385?

[JERICOGTX]

FAST doesn't want to become another NHRA, does it, like it did in cutting out the 385?


FAST cut out the 385?

Nope.

[frnkeore]

My statement about the 385, was only a analogy of what the NHRA did, to hold back Fords performance (limiting bore centers, while not saying it was eliminating Ford) in drag racing and not that FAST was banning the 385.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Hemi Joel]

Now why can't the 65-67 427 Cobras run in FAST? There were a total of 206 427 Cobras built.  There were only 216 L-88 Corvettes built from1967-69.  Only 2 1969 Z-L1 Corvettes were built.

The Cobras are not considered a muscle car by class rules. There was a lot more than 2 69 L88's built. 214 between 68-69. '67 was the year of only 2

I don't understand why the Cobras are barred from the series,if it's not considered a musclecar why is the Corvette?They raced in the same classes in drag racing and road racing.The top end Corvettes were no more affordable than a top end Cobra.If the Corvette were excluded then I could see the reasoning,but singling out the Cobra makes it appear as if they are just ruling out a car that they know has the potential to dominate the series.kind of reminds you of Nascar in the Big Bill France days.

Because it for American cars only. Foreign built cars do not qualify as muscle cars in the FAST rules.

[427LX]

Do you really need slicks?  The boys will be in Maryland Oct. 22-23

[StarlinerRon]

What track will they be at?

Ron.

[427LX]

They will be at MIR

[hbstang]

the big question i have is there a minimum weight for each car?or just a general rule?the 800 hp 385 engine would be fast enough,if the car was lighten up enough.
also,i see that lane is on this and other ford forums,so maybe he can add his knowledge base to the discussion.

[JERICOGTX]

the big question i have is there a minimum weight for each car?

No minimum weight.

[e philpott]

Lighten the front end and add as much weight that you can safely mount in the trunk , is that how it goes ?? I can't imagine any traction without some added weight in back

[frnkeore]

the big question i have is there a minimum weight for each car?

No minimum weight.

That sounds like it could get VERY expensive!

[427LX]

I was at one of the races several years ago looking at Dave's 69 Hemi RR and got a laugh when it took a lot of effort for him to raise the trunk lid!
No minimum weight and put it where it will do most good.

[frnkeore]

So, then my question is, do they allow foreign made parts and metals to be installed in the cars and the cars still be be legal?

Are aluminum and fiberglass body panels legal? How about acid dipping? Titanium headers and suspension pieces?

[allrightmike]

  I have visions of aluminum & titanium fasteners everyware possible. Would weight high in the car be a traction, or more correctly, a weight transfer aid?

[e philpott]

Doesn't appear to have a maximum weight limit or a limit of how much trunk ballast either

[427LX]

Yep light weight fasteners too! A certain white 1968 Firebird supposedly had a bunch of titanium fasteners.

[Hemi Joel]

...Are aluminum and fiberglass body panels legal? How about acid dipping? Titanium headers and suspension pieces?

Frank, the cars never see a scale. One of my very favorite things about FAST is that it is REAL RACING with no break-outs, no index, no handicaps, no weights, no HP/LB rules, and you can never lose by going too fast. There is no attempt by the organization to create "parity". No classes, all run together. The better cars have an advantage, just like the day they were built, and they will not be punished for being better.
 No aluminum, glass, of carbon fiber body panels are allowed. No headers are allowed, F.A.S.T. cars must run the correct, original, cast iron exhaust manifolds, as well as correct, original intake manifolds and heads. Titanium suspension parts are not forbidden by the rules, nor are lightweight fasteners or acid dipping the correct steel panels, but they would have to be stock appearing.

Here are a few pics from my FAST GTX build

[frnkeore]

Joel, I'm sorry to keep nit picking at the rules but, they are very odd to me.

1. It doesn't seem right to only allow cast iron manifolds and aluminum and titanium fasteners, as well as aluminum and titanium, in other parts of the car.

2. If you can replace the petal assembly with aluminum why can't the steel body work, be replaced the the same material?

3. I don't know what the parts are, in the last picture but, they wouldn't appear to me as being "stock appearing".

They are your F.A.S.T. rules but, as a logical guy, they don't seem consistent.

[Hemi Joel]

Frank, I can empathize with your confusion, because you probably don't know the history of FAST.
The rules make perfect sense when you understand. The rules do not allow aluminum fasteners or titanium fasteners or aluminum petal assemblies. They simply do not prohibit them.

So here is why the rules are the way they are: there is a race called the pure stock musclecar drags.  https://www.psmcdr.com/  FAST developed from that. There was a point in time where the pure stock muscle car drags had only a visual inspection of the cars. So some racers were cheating (allegedly). They started to do all the sneeky stuff to their cars that they could to make them faster that would not be revealed in this visual tech inspection.
Then one year the PSMCDR decided to tighten up their tech inspections. At that point a bunch of the alleged cheaters got together and started FAST. So the concept was that the car would need to pass the visual inspection. All of the stuff that they checked for at the pure stock drags, like correct heads, carburetors, manifolds, wheels, tires, body panels, interior, exhaust, ignition, and a whole bunch of other stuff that could easily be checked in a visual inspection were also required of fast cars. As the rules were created and evolved, they built on that concept. For clarity certain things for defined, and certain things were required, and certain things were prohibited. it was also clarified from what vantage point to the underside of the car would be inspected, how the engine compartment would be inspected, and everything else. Considering all that, it is up to the racer to understand those concepts, to understand the letter of the rules, and then to use their creativity to make improvements to the car that are not prohibited.

Have you read the fast rules? If not that would provide some clarity as well. https://www.fastdrags.com/fast-rules

[hbstang]

i dont think you could run tunnel port heads,as the casting numbers have to be a production engine.
and no,i dont think the car has to be an original as long as it looks correct.IE,a real hemi cuda or boss 429?not going to see that.to me,its a rich mans folly to run this class,as it would cost $100k to build a competive car.

[Hemi Joel]

i dont think you could run tunnel port heads,as the casting numbers have to be a production engine.
and no,i dont think the car has to be an original as long as it looks correct.IE,a real hemi cuda or boss 429?not going to see that.to me,its a rich mans folly to run this class,as it would cost $100k to build a competive car.

Correct on your first 2 assumptions, dead wrong on the 3rd. Of course everybody thinks that about everybody else who plays on a different level than they do,

[StarlinerRon]

Anyone going to M.I.R. tomorow?

Ron.