FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: Drew Pojedinec on October 18, 2017, 06:13:42 PM
-
Due to the request made in another thread I'll be detailing some plating and other fun here.
This time I've been seriously busy..... work has been recalling me a lot, so I haven't had more than a few days at home. Worse yet, when I did get home I'd immediately get a call that I am "on notice to ship out with 12 hours notice" so it's been hard to prioritize my projects.
That said, I'll repost a carburetor I did awhile ago.
Just an 1850, was gross. I cleaned to perfection, drilled and tapped all bleeds as follows:
-2 Primary idle air bleeds
-2 high speed air bleeds
-4 emulsion bleeds
-2 power valve channel restriction bleeds
-2 secondary idle air bleeds
-2 secondary high speed air bleeds
-2 idle feed restrictions
-2 metering plate restriction
-2 idle feed restrictions for the secondary
I also added .140 downleg boosters
Everything got beadblasted than back to the ultrasonic cleaner, than hand cleaned, dipped in a pickle, water washed and than dipped in a dichromate to seal the metal. Replated linkage and hardware as needed and redid the base plate like I wanted it. I use SS plates that are a good bit thinner.
I've got 400 miles on this setup and it's probably the best 1850 based carb I've built. All metal appears to be holding out with no signs of fading.
-
I also do a good bit of hand polishing of the venturi prior to dipping in the dichromate.
A future project will be to build a flow bench, which will be handy for matching each venturi flow.
So I've been experimenting with a variety of chemicals to get different colors. I've probably done 40-50 bowls to get to where I'm at currently at now.
Temperature and pre metal prep is very important, so you need to be heating or accounting for the different temps.
Acid washes help open up the pores in the metal for a better "take" of the dichromate.
I have several washes:
Nitric acid
Muriatic acid
Phosphoric acid
Hydrochloric acid
Sodium Hydroxide (ok it's a base)
By using different acid washes you get a different color or tone to each type of dichromate. i currently have 7 different dichromates, so there is a good bit of variation, but these are the three main hues I'm aiming for
Below you can see the main Holley colors I can get with these dips. Gold, Olive, and the lighter grey. The composition of the original carburetor matters as well. If prep isn't perfect you get some mottled (like on the gold below). That will have to go through the whole process again in order to get an even color.
-
I'll get to zinc plating the linkage later, got a car coming to the shop in the morning I have to spend a few hours on :P
-
Looking good Drew. I just cleaned up and kitted a 2100, it looked great an hour ago. Now that I've seen this, it looks like crap. ;) Seriously though, you should be proud of making a ball of corrosion and varnish into something that looks like new again. Later, Travis
-
Nice work
-
That is really cool. Can you give more details on the chemicals and processes involved? For example, what's involved in getting a dichromate finish on the parts? Is it just a dip, or an acid wash first then dip, or do you have to heat the bath, how long do you let the parts sit in the bath, etc. etc. Bringing those old carbs back to life is a really neat project...
-
Jay,
You really need to use one of the acids to open the pores/etch the zamac, otherwise the dichromate is really streaky or splotchy. Kinda like the gold bowl how that corner didn't fully take. Probably just some oil that was still in there. Some parts absolutely will not recolor properly. That is one of the reasons I'm upgrading my plating station, I'll just go ahead and replate the whole main body/metering blocks/bowls etc and then go through the whole recoloring process again.
So let it sit in there for 15-60 seconds, pull it out and water wash it. water wash it in another bucket, water wash it in another bucket. blow it off really quick and dip into the dichromate.
This keeps you from contaminating the dichromate and also deactivates the acids.
The acids don't need to be heated, but the convertor/dichromate needs to be either an even temperature or you need to account of cold, like it needs to soak longer.
again, 15-60 seconds, maybe a lil longer. You can pull the piece out and look at the color. When done it needs to be water washed again as it'll keep darkening.
It's a zinc convertor, like ospho is for steel, so treat it in the same manner.
When done with the dip, they need to dry. You can add heat but not much, 120-140 would be the upper limit.
Again, these chemicals are pretty nasty. So wear gloves, don't touch stuff, etc.
I intended to set up a larger plating table for actual electroplating of zinc and do some photos of that operation, but just got called back to work, which sucks.
I worked through half of my time off last time, and it looks like instead of a month off, I only get 8 days off and then gone for the next 7+ weeks.
Got home, got a 302 tuned and running a 32 Ford, did yard cleanup because there was a hurricane a month ago and I got called back to work, so the trees were still there. Just spent the day tuning a 482 in a 63 Galaxie for some nice folks. No time for plating projects. Hopefully I'll get to it next time I'm home.
Either way, it's a weird hobby but a fun one. I doubt there is a ton of profit in it, but it's rewarding in it's own way. I suspect I have 10-20 man hours in each carb, mostly just due to getting everything absolutely perfect, if it isn't perfect, you pretty much have to start over. Plus saving old car parts and refinishing them keeps them out of the scrap pile, I've been less than thrilled with a lot of the new junk out there. Maybe someday I'll get decent enough at this to try proper restoration work, but I'm just messing around right now, I don't think I'm skilled enough to handle precious originals at the time.
-
Looking good Drew. I just cleaned up and kitted a 2100, it looked great an hour ago. Now that I've seen this, it looks like crap. ;) Seriously though, you should be proud of making a ball of corrosion and varnish into something that looks like new again. Later, Travis
A good bit of the look is due to my tools I have for this.
-clean the surface and loose junk
-Ultrasonic cleaner for the next step
-glass bead blast to further clean and get an even finish
-back to manual cleaning again, mostly to get the beads out of everything (it takes forever, seriously)
-Then on the metal prep and recoloring
I can see why there aren't a lot of folks doing this. If starting from scratch, you could easily spend 3-4k just to get into the game. For someone just doing 4-5 carbs a decade it'd be wiser to just find someone already doing this and pay them the $100 or whatever to redo them.
-
Have you tried walnut shells in place of the beads?
-
Have you tried walnut shells in place of the beads?
I have not. Tho I will comment, 10 out of 10 restorers I spoke with (who would even talk to me, most of them are pretty tight lipped) said they use glass beads.
-
That is surprising as race shops I know of and much 'Net talk now give a huger no-no to glass on any internal engine parts. Pics too of engine damage from glass beads they thought were removed.
-
My friend that run a Harley shop.
First sandblast with a fine sand
then glassbead to get the texture.
He says you need to sandblast first
to get all dirt out. Otherwise the glass
peen some dirt in to the metall.
Have you tried that?
Actually his process is like this. sandblast then in the hotwater
washer glassbead the another hotwater wash
-
No I haven't. But folks like Hastings and actual race piston makers advise either be 100% sure of glass bead removal or use another method. I wonder too if soda blasting could be as effective.
https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/pressure-cleaning-media-engines
-
I saw somwhere in a magazine about blasting carbs with bakingsoda
-
No I haven't. But folks like Hastings and actual race piston makers advise either be 100% sure of glass bead removal or use another method. I wonder too if soda blasting could be as effective.
https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/pressure-cleaning-media-engines
From your link:
"Your shop must establish a reliable cleaning process that will completely remove all cleaning media from the engine parts, or expensive engine damage will result."
To which I would respond, "DUH"
On another note, I wouldn't consider doing this to internal engine parts or pistons, that is just weird and I don't see the benefit. Doing and intake manifold? maybe if a ton of prep was done on keeping the media out of the ports, but an FE intake, it's literally impossible to access all the areas, so I wouldn't. I typically soda blast intakes.
-
I was offered some flathead pistons on a swapmeet. But he just had
four of them with him beacuse he had to rebuild the other four first.....
Me -Rebuild the pistons? how do you rebuild the pistons? He- Ohhh its
easy i just glassbead them look here they are just like new..... :o
Thank you but no thanks i buy new ones ::)
-
Definitely watching this thread and making my notes.Difficulties start when I'll start translate those.
-
Plain zinc gets gross in short order. Aluminum gets cloudy, I prefer it sealed.
I used a blue dichromate. The pictures don't capture a tiny amount of iridescence.
8 hours into this one.
Will assemble tomorrow.
This is a Holley 4011, List number 84014
-
I sold that 4011, so I got bored and built my larger plating station.
Some linkage
Bead blasted to get a finish.
I dunno how to do a step by step with this software.... dammit photobucket.
Anyway, I built a larger plating station. I like a more dull than shiny finish so I'm working on that. I shouldn't have strung all the pieces together as I got some shading as you can see in the later pictures.
I figure 25 milliamps per sq inch, so I ran this at 125 for about 8 minutes. After plated I dipped it in phosphoric acid, water washed, than dipped in yellow dichromate and rewashed with water. Just trying to get the larger station and rectifier figured out.
-
That last picture of the accelerator pump arm.... see how the zinc didn't hit it all? that is shading where that part didn't "see" the anode. I shoulda strung them up seperately and wiggled them around a few more times to make sure it all got covered.
#NewToolProblems
-
Yes that whats happens if two surfaces is to close together it wont take there
like inside a pipe I thougt on the small pics you had catched a crawfish in the
orange bucket :o ;D
-
Lars, this is the deep south swamp lands.... there are ALWAYS bugs. Always. Leave an engine open long enough and there will be bugs making nests, just how it is.
Anyway, now off to plate everything I own until I get it perfect. Least now with the big tank I'll be able to plate a whole main body if I need to, before I was very limited due to rectifier output.
I'm sure Torbjorn could add more to this as he is about a year further along on this journey than I am.
-
Well i guess in the swampland you need ewerything zinkplated so i dont start rusting ;)
-
Not perfect, some splotchiness, but getting better with this larger tank
-
Before and after 4777-3
I guess if no one has any specific questions this thread is dead.
Next mission is add some brightener and see if I can replicate the shiny yellow dichromate appearance like on new linkage or grade8 bolts. I prefer dull finishes myself, but ya know, opinions.....
-
Darn Drew, that looks almost new.
Really nice.
I'm interested in what you're doing but just reading and learning.
-
Darn Drew, that looks almost new.
Really nice.
I'm interested in what you're doing but just reading and learning.
Ok cool.... didn't wanna be shouting into the void (again).
Next time I'll show how to install boosters.
-
Nope Drew looks great and some of us are loving it and just waiting for you to offer up your service lol.
-
Good good, I just didn't want to be spamming the place if there isn't much interest. I'll keep documenting the more interesting projects here as I go along this path.
I haven't felt the need to offer my services due to demand. Plus I'm still very much a novice and really need to do a few dozen more to where the results become more predictable.
-
Drew,
I'm here at least once or twice a day. I read everything, but usually don't comment. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to building hipo engines; I'd rather read and learn than chime in with a bunch of useless "me too" type posts that don't add to the discussion. I enjoy what you write, and this thread about restoring carbs is really interesting. Don't stop.
Take care,
Dan
-
I need a beer.
-
you need to cut down carbs in your diet ;D
Have you ever worked with a S.U Carb? genius
construction that more or less unchanged since 1906
i love them. I think you cant make a carb with less parts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU_Carburettor
-
Not an SU carb, but very much the same are the carbs folks here run on junior dragsters.
Just a slide carb with a tapered pin that sits in a jet. Open throttle and slide opens and pulls the pin out of the jet.
Doesn't get much easier really.
-
I thought I had a few carbs, jeez. :o
-
You collect carbs like I collect guns ))
-
Not really collecting them.
I mean, I get requests for about 7 different sizes/types. So I need to have at least one of each done at any time, right? Well core prices fluctuate so when i see one within my range I snag it. I have at least two of each laying around ready to be built due to this fluctuation.
So now we're up to 21 or more just laying around. Of course there is a swap meet this weekend. :P
Plus having ones around gives me time to experiment with different calibrations and come up with a recipe of sorts for each one.
-
No plating progress as of late.
Fixed Boxtop David's two 1850's he runs as 2x4's. They run a good bit smoother than previously, they literally ate 2.5 days and probably 3 years of my life..... Just simple stupid issues, but a ton of them.
A 600cfm Holley, a 670 Holley, a 600cfm Quickfuel, an 850 Quickfuel, and a quadrajet all showed up today..... This is all customer work so it takes priority over fun stuff. The 850 I tore into first, was supposed to just have a blown power valve. Looks like they pumped mud into it, I'll have to take it totally apart. Had to order Q-jet parts as I don't keep them around.
I got some zinc brightener to add to my electrolyte bath, it should make the linkage a little bit shinier when zinc plated. I also got some more soldering rods. I need to fix 3-4 cracked baseplates with those..... I've got the 5 carbs above to r&r but I'll probably get curious and try out that brightener.
Drew
-
Been home 9 days, 8 carbs built, 6 of which were for customers and went right back out.
Not all of the walk ins are in a hurry, so:
Started tearing down a 4779 that ended up here. No hurry on this one, figured I'd clean it up really nicely.
Of course 50% of the way through I got the phone call and have to ship out in 48 hours, blah.
Anyway the pictures should be self explanatory. If not, ask.
-
After cleaning it like 400 times and waiting for the loctite to fully set I dip it to get color
15 seconds in Phosphoric acid
wash in wash bucket number 1
wash in wash bucket #2
wash in wash bucket #3
Submerge in olive dichromate 30 seconds
wash in bucket #1
wash in bucket #2
wash in bucket #3
and I give you......
The poor man's Holley HP
-
Gotta say that looks darn nice.
-
Thanks Marc.
Now that I'm out of the shop and bathed, I'll add some info:
Pic 1 Wretched 4779 core
Pic 4 I ground down a punch to fit inside of the booster entrance. There is a thinner section, hammer away and hope it breaks out cleanly. Sometimes you aren't so lucky and have to work to break the pieces out.
Following pics are me cleaning up the edges, and polishing.
Now.... really, the guys at Holley are pros, I mean the engineering staff has spent decades learning what they know. It would be foolish to think I know more than them, so I'm not changing the shape or size of the venturi, entrance, or exit. Really I'm just blueprinting and cleaning up stuff. The kind of detail that a large production company can't afford to do, but some dude in his shop is willing to spend a few hours for an extra 25cfm.
Due to this being old and in this case obviously an old racer's carb, there was damage, scratches, etc. I'm not fixing these, and so even when polished, some deep scratches will remain. I don't want to enlarge the venturi, simply blend and relax the airflow.
Further down is a picture of the tools needed to install a booster. Green loctite, a swaging tool, booster, etc.
Swage tool is critical. The one I have is from BLP (AED sells them too). I can install straight leg, downleg, and annular boosters with this one.
If you really want to clean up the main body, it's kinda hard to do with the booster in the way. You cannot reuse the boosters.
I show a comparison of the stock .140 downleg, with a .152 Stepped booster.
Testing has shown they both see the same signal, but the stepped booster flows more AND atomizes better. I use the stock .140 with 600cfm carbs as they simply don't require additional atomization due to the small size. I really like the stepped on 750cfm and larger carbs.
I've seen a leveling tool for sale after installing the boosters, you use it to make certain that it is perfectly level.
I guess that makes sense, but I do it with a snap gauge. To me it seems the distance from the minor diameter to the booster skirt is much more critical as that is where the greatest air speed and fuel draw will occur. I imagine that the skirt being further away on one side than the other that it'd pull the fuel to the closer side..... this would obviously impact distribution.
The boosters I install were perfectly centered in the venturi. You have about 5 minutes to force them around with e screwdriver before the loctite fully hardens.
I hope in the future to build a flow bench so I can test each venturi and match them all. I think this would help balance the carb greatly. (I'd also like to get a milling machine so I can stop taking everything to my neighbors).
That's about it.
Dp
-
I'm another one that reads and appreciates all the information.
Thanks for putting it all up, its an interesting process and I'm and actually understanding most of it due to all the pictures.
The finished carb(s) look great.
Bill
-
Last day home and I'm probably supposed to be doing yard work or some other mundane work......
Along with the theme of "poor man's HP" I drilled, tapped, threaded all the adjustable stuff, ie pvcr, ifr, iab, hsab, emulsion bleeds etc. I set everything back to the stock spec, but being able to change these things kinda goes with the whole feel.
-
Posting pictures for John on the Network54 site:
-
Excellent Stuff Drew thanks for posting. ;D
-
Thanks Werby.
To anyone else:
The original Network54 post was regarding buying one of those secondary jet plates where you can put holley jets in. That poster was having an issue with the secondary float sticking and that is because there is a special secondary float required for usage with those jet plates.
I'd mentioned that it's a massive waste of money and you'd be better off just drilling and tapping the metering plate for set screws. JohnV didn't understand what I meant (mostly because I was less than clear in my description), so I posted some photos and a link to this thread.
Anyway:
Up top the idle feed can be tapped for 4-40 set screws, and the bottom can be tapped at 8-32. Drill the restriction you wish to, in those set screws. You can buy a 100 set screws for what one set of Holley jets cost.
-
Its cool that you can put downleg boosters in a 600 cfm Holley. That's what they have needed for a long time. Just wondering how you are handling the calibration with the new boosters?
-
It's the whole package.
Main metering timing is (somewhat) controlled by your HSAB and your emulsion bleeds. The requirements are obviously different for every booster....
This is how the Autolite carbs got away with not having much of an idle circuit, they tried to do all the metering with the annular boosters.
Finding exactly when the idle circuit becomes inactive and when the main comes online requires either an o2 or causing a lean surge and then backtracking as needed.
Once you get a pretty decent calibration down it works pretty well with *almost* any engine (especially as a baseline). Downlegs don't change things around too much, annulars mess it all up and you need to do a lot of work to get the calibration to work.
Yeah, it takes a good bit of driving around, tuning, changing, but once you have it, it works. Keep good notes.
-
Fine walnut shells do a good cleaning job where you need to be careful of leaving any residue. Any sort of hard stuff has a peening effect. Glass beads are about as hard as you can get.
KS
-
I'll have to experiment with them someday Ken.
I find for leaving a good finish having the gun about 18inches away and the pressure at 40psi does the best job.
When my beads get exhausted and I need to change them out, I'll experiment with the walnut shells.
Honestly as small as the bleeds are in a carburetor, I think the after blast cleaning process is still going to be just as involved.
That said, I think the peening/stripping action is what is required to expose new zinc for the dichromate to bite in to. I'm not blasting these to clean them.... they are already squeeky clean when they leave the ultrasonic cleaner.
-
I'll be documenting a lot of other carburetor related info and restoration stuff on my facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/AirFuelSParkTech/
-
If you're not looking to strip the old plating off, the best cleaner I have found is the Motorcraft Tune Up Cleaner. PN# PM-3. It works ten times better than Berryman's Chem-Dip, IMO. I put it in a spray bottle and apply it, let it soak for a few minutes, and use a parts cleaning brush if necessary. Nice work, btw!
-
Thanks Jared, I'll try that out sometime.
I've been using simple green in an ultrasonic cleaner at 125degrees. Typically 2-3 15 minute runs do the trick. I need to find another cleaner for aluminum as SG makes them kinda get a smut that needs to be cleaned off.
When I decided I wanted to fully dive into this the first thing I did was get MSDS's for everything and minimize future damage to myself.
So the dichromates I use tho dangerous are far better than the old ones, requiring less ventilation, etc. The cleaners I pretty much have done away with. I may use a little spray carb cleaner here or there but I regularly do complete rebuilds without anything more than soaps and detergents, etc.
-
Been busy, finally got home.... lotsa stuff to build and do.
Got to plating a pile of hardware, really getting consistent with the coloration.
I'd post more here, but I've been putting most content on that facebook page above, it's a bit of trouble to double post everything. Anyhow, trying to get the shiny but not too shiny yellow down, getting close to where I want it.
-
Nice work. Just an FYI I tried using a product called Oil Eater for cleaning carbs....worked surprisingly well. Maybe something to try in your ultrasonic cleaner?? BTW my brother is the National Sales Manager for Oil Eater so a sample could be had....
-
Its so nice to bolt together with freshly plated parts
-
Nice work. Just an FYI I tried using a product called Oil Eater for cleaning carbs....worked surprisingly well. Maybe something to try in your ultrasonic cleaner?? BTW my brother is the National Sales Manager for Oil Eater so a sample could be had....
I might try it someday, It's roughly 6 times more expensive than La Awesome Cleaner, which is what I'm currently using with great success. Cheaper is better as of now as after I dunno maybe a dozen carbs the cleaners have enough carbon and junk in them they need to be retired otherwise they will stain the metal.
-
Did a 3310 I really liked.
I used a black dichromate on the choke post after plating it.... I really like the contrast.
-
Sorry for the large photos, I got a new camera.
Anyway, bout to leave offshore this week so packing up the stuff I built this month and trying to get it all shipped out.
I seem to have gotten the consistency I've desired.
-
They look really good, Drew. Great job!
-
Thanks for posting (most of) the pictures small enough to see and enjoy. It's very aggravating to want to view a picture so large that you have to move to to the right several times. I like what you're doing with the carbs Drew. Keep pictures coming.
-
Yeah, I know, I haven't figured it out with the new camera yet. I could host them somewhere, or just check out my facebook page, they resize automagically there.
-
aaaaaand google images doesn't allow linking. Lemme try somewhere else.
-
Try postimage.org Drew. I use the second to largest size.
Works great
-
Well I uploaded some to flickr, it sucks but we'll see what happens.
I liked this project..... I was wanting to turn early 600cfm carbs which I can get fairly cheaply into reliable, good running 2x4 carbs.
So I start with junk 600's
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4710/24720293667_510865d823_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DErY4M)IMG_0054 (https://flic.kr/p/DErY4M) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4615/38691936335_52842444f6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21X5hEB)IMG_0055 (https://flic.kr/p/21X5hEB) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
I realized a lil while ago that it is super hard to hold screws and bolts in the blasting cabinet. A few folks suggested tumblers, and all sortsa other stuff, I figured I'd stay simple, I drilled/tap'd an aluminum plate to hold all the hardware needed for two carbs.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4662/38691963575_c108e07951_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21X5qLg)IMG_0058 (https://flic.kr/p/21X5qLg) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Plating
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4701/24720464717_3b6a0961e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DEsQUV)IMG_0065 (https://flic.kr/p/DEsQUV) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Plated
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4673/38879395374_7ff5fd03ef_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22eD4H1)IMG_0073 (https://flic.kr/p/22eD4H1) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
So the next mission... the proper throttle shaft setup for factory progressive usage. Ok so Carl's has the shafts for $60 each. Well that is $120 added to a low buck operation, nope. So I have some early Ford throttle shafts, I needed to find some throttle trunnions that'd work with the progressive linkage. Well shoot, those are $20 each just for a lil bitty piece of metal, no good.... My neighbor's shop was locked so I didn't have access to his lathe. I decided to make the parts needed with a drill chucked in the vice and a hand file. I measured the trunnion size and made two. Later when I had access to the lathe I made like 25 more.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4654/39558886542_7ae67c7fb7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23gFCKY)IMG_0084 (https://flic.kr/p/23gFCKY) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
So it looked like this
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4758/25717826108_da809a14fe_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FbAzGY)IMG_0087 (https://flic.kr/p/FbAzGY) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
When plated you can't tell the steel from the brass. The trunnion is held on by an 8-32 screw into the backside.... drill press needed for that. I used a low profile screw head, on the secondary carb check for clearance with the screw head hitting the accelerator pump lever, some grinding may be needed.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4673/27811282799_8974d96248_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JnA6rR)IMG_0092 (https://flic.kr/p/JnA6rR) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
I've been taking to double dipping plated throttle shafts.... hit the yellow for 15 seconds and the black for 45seconds.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4705/38879539804_b261d6c91d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22eDNDb)IMG_0098 (https://flic.kr/p/22eDNDb) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Coming together
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4611/25717878718_8a2c82268e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FbARm3)IMG_0100 (https://flic.kr/p/FbARm3) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
I used two different bases.... one is from an 1850-1 and one is from an 1850-3. This way you have one pcv hookup and one full time manifold vacuum for automatic transmission usage.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4624/24720616967_e9a154c636_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DEtCaV)IMG_0107 (https://flic.kr/p/DEtCaV) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
The primary carb has a ported vacuum barb available. In the secondary carb I drilled and tapped for a 6-32 x 3/16 set screw so the port is plugged internally.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4748/27811337149_239f131df3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JnAnAV)IMG_0111 (https://flic.kr/p/JnAnAV) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Ok the rest are just glam photos
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4709/39558993882_efa78020b8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23gGbEE)IMG_0112 (https://flic.kr/p/23gGbEE) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4759/39559011382_184a2193c0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23gGgSo)IMG_0113 (https://flic.kr/p/23gGgSo) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4719/24720684927_8f9fa57363_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DEtYnD)IMG_0114 (https://flic.kr/p/DEtYnD) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4718/24720699597_e729d2c77b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DEu3Jz)IMG_0116 (https://flic.kr/p/DEu3Jz) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4671/38692277255_e36249eb1c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21X731x)IMG_0133 (https://flic.kr/p/21X731x) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
I think it's a pretty neat project, I'm about to leave for work and won't get to test these out until I get back. It's ok, the customer who requested them asked me to wait as he had some sorta money set back or whatever.
Either way, I've made up enough parts and have enough cores to knock together about 6 sets of these.
To be honest, this set is a little too bright and blinged out for my liking, but it's kinda what was desired by the fella that wants them. I'd like to do one with more mellow colors and one with more of an old cad type color, I'll try to do a few different types when I get back, it'll be cool
-
Carbs look great, Drew. Re-plating makes them look 100x better. Just my opinion, but I think I'd be a little concerned about using soft brass on those trunions. Not just for reasons of wear, but for possible breakage when somebody's foot slips and "accidentally" mashes them to full open. Of course nobody here would do stuff like that, but there are a few goons out there. ;)
-
I considered that Doug.
I made up a test setup.
I let the loctite set up and beat the snot out of the trunnion while the throttle head was chucked in a vice.
I made some of these trunnions out of steel, but it was much more trouble drilling the hole for the cotter pin.
If the brass was 4 ft long I'd consider this sort of thing as an issue, being .675 of an inch long I'm not as concerned.... I'll play around with it and try to break it on the car in another month.
The only weak link I'd suspect is the overly large sized original sized hole. I'm thinking about filling that hole with jbweld and redrilling it smaller so there is less side load/sliding possibility.
This brass is rated at 15000psi Rockwell B75. if that helps.
Anyway, I'd appreciate some input from the braintrust on that.....
So, out of boredom or just as a proof of concept I made some early Ford type throttle heads out of .100 plate steel.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4720/39568950032_ddcb28c558_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23hzdhq)IMG_0230 (https://flic.kr/p/23hzdhq) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4628/39598006371_dd9eece84e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23k98HM)IMG_0231 (https://flic.kr/p/23k98HM) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4667/39568929522_f437db8a6f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23hz7bN)IMG_0232 (https://flic.kr/p/23hz7bN) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4701/27821172949_82ae284f2a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JosMrF)IMG_0234 (https://flic.kr/p/JosMrF) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4713/38702021005_523bd4e2b5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21XXYue)IMG_0235 (https://flic.kr/p/21XXYue) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
One thing I'd really appreciate from folks here..... guys that were there in the early 60's.
If any of you have color photos of Holley's from that time period I'd appreciate them
I want to figure a way to plate the linkage to look like it did in 1963.
It was plated, but wasn't shiny nor bright gold, but it's really hard for me figuring out the exact hue based on black and white photos or by looking at 54 year old carbs.
Thanks
-
Nice work Drew. They look great.
-
You can buy those throttle shaft arm studs. I think Summit and Allstate have had them.
Welding those holes up on the arm is a pain. We used to call them "Chevy holes" because it meant some GM guy got a hold of the carb and drilled it to fit his Camaro.
-
The ones I bought before were about $10 each, and they worked fine on the top hole, but the lower hole for the secondary carb the stud/nut hits the accelerator pump arm as the throttle is opened.
Maybe there is another type out there? I dunno. Either way, If I have to, I'll just make them out of steel. I can call my suppliers as well and see what they think.
Anyhow, the first row of carbs had been test run, boxed up, and shipped.
Here is hoping to a long life on happy engines for the new owners. This was the same picture as before just resized. Headed offshore tomorrow, so progress is going to stop for now.
Just another $3-4k before I break even :P :P :P Hobbies.... ya know? Of course now, I'm considering making another plating station to handle the more dull cad type appearing hardware which will set me back a lil on the economic progress.
Only other update, I've gotten a better take with the olive dichromate by using a Hydrochloric acid soak instead of phosphoric. Also air drying them in a very specific way seems to give a better finish.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4742/27837995219_df5af110cc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JpX17P)IMG_0216 (https://flic.kr/p/JpX17P) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Drew ,
"In the day" the levers were a bit lighter. The levers were plated before being added to the shafts. This left the end of the shaft ( done with some for of roller forming die) natural steel. The spring was also silver . Shafts were black oxide or in many cases (possibly) hard chromed or nickel plated. The accellerator pump lever , secondary linkage and choke rod were all shiny black oxide plated. There's more but it really only applies to a concourse situation. Yours are VERY nice looking.
An automatic screw machine could turn out a few hundred linkage pins for pennies each ( well under a dollar anyway). Holly used another "roller die" form on the back side to attach them originally.
Randy
-
Thank you very much for the information Randy, I really appreciate it.
First hand input sure beats the "carburetor archeology" I've been doing by buying old carbs and trying to figure out what wore when.
(thinking out loud here, so bear with me)
-Realistically I shouldn't be removing the throttle heads from the shafts to plate the parts individually as I don't have the proper tools for it to be installed correctly, and I'll make more of a mess.
-I can't really do black oxide yet, but the black dichromate over zinc plating looks decent and is easy enough that I'll probably stick with it for now. If nothing else the benefit of zinc plating is it can't flake off.....
-From what I can see of old originals, the cad/zinc plating was super thick and well done. What some people think is a dull metal finish is just the very light coating of dichromate that wore off and the zinc/cad coat remained as it was thick enough to withstand 55-60 years. I'll need another plating station to replicate that cad look..... obviously for environmental reasons I am not going to be doing cad plating. Ya see, with my current chem situation, once I add "brightener" to the electroplating bath you cannot remove it, only wait for it to wear out or be used up. By having too baths I can have one for nice pretty bright parts and one for lighter/duller matte finishes..... just another $500 to setup, I'm ok with that if need be.
-I'll make up a few sets of 2x4 600's when I get back home and try to make them look as original as I can, I'll submit photos for you guys to critique in regards to their appearance for originality sake. I mean, I'm not doing concours restorations or anything, this is all more just for personal satisfaction, 99% of the people out there wouldn't know the difference anyhow.
-Still not overly concerned about the brass vs steel trunnion thing as when I tested them out with a hammer, the throttle head bent and the brass remained solid when I was beating on it all with a mini sledge, but I'll notify customers so if they are concerned they can buy the shafts from Carl's or aftermarket trunnions.
-
Drew ,
"Most" restored carbs I see have too many parts done in gold. Both the screw and nut for the float adjustment "were" silver as were the screws into the throttle shafts for the choke and secondary diaphram. "One" way to do the throttle lever is time intensive but involves the use of candle wax to "cover" areas that you don't want plated. NOBODY wants to pay for the time it takes to do this but it is "A" way that I have used on my own. I haven't successfully removed and replaced a throttle lever yet without a tack weld. Lucky for me this was a "field fix" for some of the SK numbered carburetors I have when the levers loosened up in use.
-
I've been lucky with a gentle punch/hammer to tighten up loose throttle levers, but the weld was my concern after plating..... It'd ruin it.
Great info on the candle wax.... I considered using painters tape but wasn't sure how that would hold up......
I'm not sure if just raw zinc or zinc + blue dichromate is the perfect answer for some of the screws, I've played around a little with it, I think it's close to perfectly in between the two :P I'll have to play with a super short dichromate dip and see what it looks like.
I dunno if you do plating, but the speed that something dries and temperature seems to matter as well, so that might be worth experimenting with.
Here is the raw "bright" plating with no dichromate dip
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4761/38724752575_bdb2d97b71_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21ZYtMR)IMG_0144 (https://flic.kr/p/21ZYtMR) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
And here is one with a variety:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4658/25749764158_bfe7801ae4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FeqgM1)IMG_0140 (https://flic.kr/p/FeqgM1) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Close up of the blue and closeup of the short yellow dip which requires a very slow, low temperature drying. If the drying gets hurried in any way it gets iridescent which I despise. At the same time any moisture left on it promotes streaking.
I have been using the blue for the needle seat adjuster and really really like the result so that isn't a problem.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4721/38913026184_a794cf9c30_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22hBqYy)IMG_0143 (https://flic.kr/p/22hBqYy) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4706/25749865718_c5d0b733f7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FeqMY3)IMG_0142 (https://flic.kr/p/FeqMY3) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
As I've stated in the past, I have a good job.... I work 6 months a year to make more than I need.
This is just strictly for fun and in some way just to strive for perfection with these things.
Obviously bright gold is super easy as the parts can be batched and all done at once. If some Ford brother needed a perfect restoration, I'd like to be able to provide.... i don't care if it takes me 3 days to do a set of carbs, it'd be worth it to do it "right" if that makes sense. Most of you guys are my friends, I think it's cool to learn the processes and make these things perfect. Input like yours in valuable in a way I cannot express, so thanks for that.
Drew
-
For FE Power member David here I did a 3310 recently....
I tried to do a lighter yellow, but the secondary lever still turned out bright. A decent light yellow vs and bright gold is often the difference in a few seconds of the dip and a few minutes to perfect drying. I really need a small oven that I can control air flow and temp from 90-120 would be useful for this.
I also did the needle and seat parts with the bright zinc and blue dichromate.
I also in the last picture plated the throttle plates and soaked them in the black dichromate, which I think left a nice finish.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4767/25750045018_3664df24db_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FerHgq)IMG_0173 (https://flic.kr/p/FerHgq) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4745/25750028808_068a5271bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FerCrW)IMG_0174 (https://flic.kr/p/FerCrW) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4717/38913157904_e7fde10572_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22hC78A)IMG_0180 (https://flic.kr/p/22hC78A) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Dig it.
-
The extra effort shows Drew, nice job!
-
I think the canooter valve is crooked.
-
You shoulda seen the canooter valve before.....
holes drilled in the choke horn so it was a homemade double pumper.
and the carb appeared to be sitting in some sort of epoxy. I had to soak it for a day to get the stuff gooey enough to peel off.
I had to clean it like 40 times to get all that black stuff to stop oozing out.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4608/24770179087_3065183457_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DJRDge)IMG_0145 (https://flic.kr/p/DJRDge) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4649/38930053764_2d98e32d7c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22j7GFw)IMG_0151 (https://flic.kr/p/22j7GFw) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4695/25767080188_8027d443b2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FfX2ef)IMG_0152 (https://flic.kr/p/FfX2ef) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Probably a leaking permatexbottle,there is
evil gnomes loosening permatexbottle lids
and tipping them over when you look in the
other direction.Preferably on your camcard,
the jacket you put aside to not get it dirty
Or your gasket set
-
hah, more likely paint.... tho your permatex story sounds like it *may* have happened to someone :)
-
Atleast paint dries and dont stay sticky for eternityhttp://
The p-tex incident may have happened to me a few times ::)
Anyway beautyful carbs Drew
-
Thanks Jared, I'll try that out sometime.
I've been using simple green in an ultrasonic cleaner at 125degrees. Typically 2-3 15 minute runs do the trick. I need to find another cleaner for aluminum as SG makes them kinda get a smut that needs to be cleaned off.
Drew, I've heard that PineSol is a good alternative.
-
So a fellow Ford brother sent me a 390 GT carb to redo.
It isn't perfect, and getting the black dichromate to look right takes a ton of work. The secondary link just didn't want to take, had to redo many pieces a few times to get them to look decent. I might need to figure out how to do black oxide to make them look more original.
Anyway here is my attempt:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4780/39896585435_51cdf3b2e4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23MwqSF)IMG_0336 (https://flic.kr/p/23MwqSF) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4785/40791315051_741fd4b4b1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/259A9Pn)IMG_0337 (https://flic.kr/p/259A9Pn) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4786/40081399984_33afe6de3f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/244RDNq)IMG_0338 (https://flic.kr/p/244RDNq) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4782/40791287681_7424b93b0c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/259A1Ft)IMG_0341 (https://flic.kr/p/259A1Ft) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4778/25919699947_252a0e0847_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FureLp)IMG_0342 (https://flic.kr/p/FureLp) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
That GT carb looks really good, Drew!
Just a month or so ago I traded away two of those carbs for GTs; a C7 and a C6. The C7 was in really good shape, didn't appear to have ever been a core or rebuilt. It still had the Autolite tag on it but was missing the transfer tube. Very clean inside and no schmutz on the outside. Kept hoping that I was going to stumble across someone restoring a correct Fairlane that just "had to have" that carb....didn't happen.
The C6 was a little rougher and had been through a rebuilder shop, could see the remains of the adhesive tag on it.
The inside was a bit beat up on the C6 as well.
Didn't seem as though there was much of a market for those as cores and I needed a nice steering wheel, soooooo away they went.
-
Looks excellent!
-
Well I appreciate all the input from the folks here on trying to nail the looks of these original factory carbs.
There were one or two things I did wrong color wise on this GT carb, but forgivable ones.
Finished plating your BJ/BK hardware a few minutes ago, trying to get those just so as well..... I think most of the hardware on those are like a light silvery/grey cad. I'll see what they look like when they all dry, I can always give em a light yellow tint if needed or if it doesn't look right.
-
Looks great, Drew! The only thing missing is the ink stamps! I don't recall original carbs having the shiny look to them, so yours look perfect.
-
I considered ink stamps, but honestly I have no clue what they mean at all :P
This one had a very very faint 17 on the driverside of the choke horn.
-
Not sure Drew but methinks they were some Q.C. control stamp added at the very end of assembly. Anybody really know?
-
Like most all of Ford's assembly procedures, they would stamp for inspection at various stages of assembly. I've had some NOS BJ/BK and various other carbs, and they all had a stamp on the choke horn and one on the float bowls. Just a guess, but I'd venture to say the choke horn stamp was an inspection of the main body for flaws. Only problem is finding identical original or NOS carbs to match the stamp with each style of carb. But unless someone is going after a Gold certificate for show purposes...who cares. They still look awesome. :)
-
Hvywrench's carbs:
https://business.facebook.com/pg/AirFuelSParkTech/photos/?tab=album&album_id=218648388873900
And no ink stamping! doh
-
They look beautiful.
I wonder if hvy' is going to use those on his Galaxie or are they for another project?
Inquiring minds want to know. ;)
-
They will go back on the car.
I'm pretty impressed with how they look, saving as much of the original finish as possible was the right way to go, and I'm sure that Drew probably had a lot more time in those than on a set that he refinished to his level of detail. Very easy to work with and I appreciate his efforts.
Keeping them as original as possible was a lot more work but keeps them consistent with the rest of the engine.
-
tested many of the carbs and shipped them out,
built foxwell some 3310's, they tested great, need to get them boxed up.
Started with some junky 3310-4's
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/804/39224867980_c0c64dd183_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22LaGFf)IMG_0410 (https://flic.kr/p/22LaGFf) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Put in different boosters and cleaned them up A LOT
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/806/41033753361_f45bebc20d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25w1Hhe)IMG_0475 (https://flic.kr/p/25w1Hhe) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Bill's bj/bk's tested funky, so I'll be messing with them a good bit more tomorrow when it's warmer, kinda cold and dreary today.
I'd left for the weekend so I mass batched about 7 carbs so they could dry/cure while I was gone.
Built a 600 for Marc/turbohunter
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/793/26163068327_6049fb41a5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FRWyGX)IMG_0518 (https://flic.kr/p/FRWyGX) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Build thread for that is here:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/AirFuelSParkTech/photos/?tab=album&album_id=223810655024340
-
Thanks for another carb Drew. It's really great to be able to tell you what we need and you build it with the utmost care. My last carb was darn near perfect out of the box. I'm sure this one will be the same. Thank you.
-
Urchinhead asked me to redo some linkage for him.
The piece is too large and more importantly with the shadows and stuff it'd be really hard to plate evenly. Plus black dichromate is a bit of a pain, the coating needs to be perfect and even then I need to redo easy parts 3-4 times to get them perfect.
So I did the sensible thing and bought a kit for black oxide. The only annoying part about this stuff is the "off color" is rusty brown (it's not rust). Anyway here is my attempt, the throttle rod is zinc plated and dipped in a blue dichromate, the large part is dipped in a black oxide.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/816/41125239342_997f367d42_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25E6ASJ)IMG_0616 (https://flic.kr/p/25E6ASJ) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/902/26297016777_f40a112e89_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G4M5UZ)IMG_0617 (https://flic.kr/p/G4M5UZ) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/815/26297002747_b84f2dd002_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G4M1K6)IMG_0618 (https://flic.kr/p/G4M1K6) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
It's a weird material to work with.... unlike old school black oxide it is a cold dip. You media blast and clean the parts, set them in the liquid and let them sit for 30 minutes. When done you dip them in a penetrating sealant, and once dry you kinda polish it with a rag and reseal it a few times as the stuff soaks in. It looks nice, but I have ZERO clue as far as how it'll do in the long run.
Either way, hope you like it Urchinhead.
-
I like it already! Thanks again for all of your efforts. I bought a Skat blasting cabinet a few weeks back and will have few questions for you in the relatively near future.
-
Sure ask away.
This is the Caswell black oxide kit with their penetrating oil (which smells remarkably like expensive mineral spirits)
The black part I cleaned, media blasted, cleaned.... blew with air for hours while spraying with carb cleaner to get any stray media out of the joints.
Set it in the black oxide mix for 20 minutes, pulled out, and immediately wiped down with the penetrating oil. an hour later I polished the part with a rag and reapplied the penetrating sealant. Not too bad really
-
I haven't been posting much here.
I've been kinda fine tuning my 2x4 calibration, aiming for perfection. Just funny how much each set seems to want something a little tiny bit different.
Had my plating tanks get contaminated which sucked.... took several days to get back into operations. Really a science/black art this plating stuff. Once I got it all worked out I turned out four sets of 600's and a handful of other single 4v's.
Figured I'd share because I'm bored offshore at 11pm.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1749/41707888145_0a4eebcd44_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26xzQ4K)IMG_0674 (https://flic.kr/p/26xzQ4K) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1746/42607910561_61744829b2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27V7FnB)IMG_0677 (https://flic.kr/p/27V7FnB) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/41707884585_eb97c5a371_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26xzP1n)IMG_0679 (https://flic.kr/p/26xzP1n) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/41889473674_a5877d245d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26PCv7J)IMG_0780 (https://flic.kr/p/26PCv7J) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1729/42607912341_0bb4c38c40_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27V7FUi)IMG_0669 (https://flic.kr/p/27V7FUi) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/28735425498_73bda1e8bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KMfySE)IMG_0688 (https://flic.kr/p/KMfySE) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/41889479374_7c0170de19_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26PCwP1)IMG_0690 (https://flic.kr/p/26PCwP1) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1724/41707953225_df51937150_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26xAapP)IMG_0775 (https://flic.kr/p/26xAapP) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
Yes, I could tell you what this last one means, but then I'd have to kill you...... :P
-
FE Power member Mike wanted me to toss together some 600's.
The build is here:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/AirFuelSParkTech/photos/?tab=album&album_id=389934358411968
Here are the cliffnotes, it's dark in my shop but the pictures come out ok:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4904/44674632880_ea41d41060_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b4KaV3)IMG_1109 (https://flic.kr/p/2b4KaV3) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4869/44674638500_d0a8d8530f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b4KczW)IMG_1110 (https://flic.kr/p/2b4KczW) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4820/45578438335_e53f9c562a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2crBpMH)IMG_1203 (https://flic.kr/p/2crBpMH) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4857/45578437275_917fdc1729_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2crBptr)IMG_1204 (https://flic.kr/p/2crBptr) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7877/45578436125_379d9740df_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2crBp8B)IMG_1217 (https://flic.kr/p/2crBp8B) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Did three sets of 3x2's as well.
The one set was in a fire, and the other looks like they sat in water for a time.
Anyway, they turned out nicely. For pre 67 I like using this greener chromate, post 67 the yellow looks more appropriate.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7842/46440191472_bf9664a189_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dKL7Yq)IMG_1032 (https://flic.kr/p/2dKL7Yq) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4918/31551782557_e32e8779a2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q588GZ)IMG_1033 (https://flic.kr/p/Q588GZ) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7852/46491693791_8e92cbdb52_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dQj5Pr)44905007_357947574943980_4193905963905843200_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dQj5Pr) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
I've got some other neat stuff on the horizon. Crossram with Lemans BE carbs, 3x2 500's, a drop in low riser setup with -C carbs, etc.
-
Very nice, I like the color too. Looks very traditional to me
-
+1 The colors look pretty good Drew great job! At some point I need to get in line and get you some to play with.
-
I've yet to master getting that early greenish look and keep the iridescent swirls.
I can do it by making the solution super weak, but it comes out a good bit greyer. Other attempts either end up grey or matte olive drab, which although it looks neat, doesn't look totally right.
I really need to keep my one green batch as it is now, and start playing with the ph of another batch, or trying different presoaks. It'll be funny, citric acid presoak will work great for one chromate, and have zero effect with another. Phosphoric acid will work great with one, and be highly variable with another, etc. Same thing with different cleaners that are used to prep the castings before etching. They have a dramatic effect on the end product.
Part of it is the yellow I have can be dried at higher temps which aid the rainbow effect, but if I do that with my greenish chromate it ends up killing it, as that chem is considerably less heat tolerant.
Still a work in progress, but I've officially been doing this for 14 months now, roughly 120-125 carbs restored.
I now have about 12 different chromates, (maybe more) and haven't really figured them all out yet, just need more time experimenting with different presoaks and drying techniques, but it's hard when buying a batch often costs $600.
Either way, just updating this thread since my last post was in June :p
Luckily, I had a customer send some carbs from Joe Bunetic, and I've had a few others sent to me from other restorers as most of those folks apparently do not test out the carbs on an engine. It's been nice to compare their results and try to figure on how they did what to get what effect.
My actual zinc plate has gotten considerably nicer on the steel hardware. I gave up using a "commercially prepped" formula and went ahead and made my own chloride solution. At least this way I know what is in it.
Herb Geduld wrote a great book on zinc plating, a worthy read for anyone into learning this. Sadly it's a very expensive book.
-
Drew,
One of my friends used "Alodyne" for the gold coloration . I only remember the name as I had nothing to do with the "coloring" process. I remember he said if he left it in too long it would get very dark ( on aluminum). Can't say anything about strength of solution or any of that. wish I had paid more attention now that he has passed on.
Randy
-
Yessir, I have 5 gallons of Alodine 1201. It works ok, It's designed for aluminum, so I tried to not use it overly much as I'm not certain what kind of protection it provides on zinc casting over time.
I should probably whip up some cheap generic carbs and play with Alodine more.
The green chromate is somewhat forgiving in regards to time, but it's also somewhat more variable in action.
The one yellow I have doesn't work on castings at all but it's fantastic on plated hardware, tho the temperature and prep needs to be totally perfect. The other yellow is very touchy. 6 seconds and it does nothing, 8 seconds and it comes out nice, 10 seconds and it comes out brown. Really can't even time it, just have to keep pulling the piece out and inspecting it as I go.
-
Been playing with the yellows more.
Finished this -U carb this morning.
Hasn't gotten fully to where I want it yet, but it's certainly not bad...
On another note, whoever came up with that BorgWarner needle and seat setup should be beaten. Every dang CJ or GT carb I get in with them is stripped out. Really annoying to have to redo every one of them.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4854/32630303728_05dc78de99_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHqQtA)IMG_1142 (https://flic.kr/p/RHqQtA) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4830/32630297758_0a497f17dc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHqNGE)IMG_1227 (https://flic.kr/p/RHqNGE) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
All I can say is....you do an awesome job. That looks fantastic and makes me wish I had something that needed restored. I might have to come up with something, just because.
-
All I can say is....you do an awesome job. That looks fantastic and makes me wish I had something that needed restored. I might have to come up with something, just because.
Clearly the answer is that we need more cars.
I could use another vehicle that runs a 3x2 for "testing purposes" obviously.....
-
x4000 or so on that needle and seat deal. Absolute junk that destroyed many good carbs.
One of the challenges is that Holley themselves were not real consistent on the coloration. The dichromate was considered as a functional, protective coating and not really considered as a cosmetic item. I saw a lot of them in the 1980s where the bowls did not match the main bodies, etc.
-
Yessir. Made worse by it being an alloy and I suspect different casting runs look differently.
I have a good repair procedure for the primary bowl needle and seat, but it still adds $10 and 30 minutes of time.
One of my next projects is to take generic vintage bowls, drill and tap them on the mill, and use a die grinder to open the fuel entrance. Will be super nice to make my own cj primary bowls.
The transfer tube tightening procedure must cause a lot of fuel inlet strippings as well. I have a 7/8-20 helicoil repair setup as well... but honestly, I’d rather not when dealing with fuel.
-
All I can say is....you do an awesome job. That looks fantastic and makes me wish I had something that needed restored. I might have to come up with something, just because.
X2 Doug, I was thinking that I was the only one that was trying to come up with a reason, any reason, to ship Drew another carb.
Good to know that I'm not alone in that.
I have the original 735 from my PI...it was rebuilt a while ago and never installed on anything.
I pull it out of the box from time to time and try to justify sending it down to GA to be rebuilt 'better'.
Still might.....just need to talk myself into it.
Bill
-
The transfer tube tightening procedure must cause a lot of fuel inlet strippings as well. I have a 7/8-20 helicoil repair setup as well... but honestly, I’d rather not when dealing with fuel.
Yeah - not a lot of cross section there for threading/rethreading in a zinc casting. Never liked that deal even though they made a gazillion of them. Guys using a gigunda wrench to tighten the fitting and starting it crossways probably killed a few bowls...used to sell a bunch of self threading repair fittings for Q-Jets back when I was working a parts counter.
-
Coloration looks good!
-
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln6qZW9L/20190101-193946.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln6qZW9L)
-
Just learning this postimage thing now. This'll be pic HEAVY. I got this carb at the Pomona Swap Meet 25 yrs. ago. Even then, FE seemed relatively scarce. 406c.i. B-Code 4bbl. New. Hopefully Drew will get a feel for the colors. Feel free to reach out for more pics, daylight pics, etc.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9RTb26M/20190101-194104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9RTb26M)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mfzn5Pyk/20190101-194502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mfzn5Pyk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VrQrrLvk/20190101-194648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrQrrLvk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/f30SR0wP/20190101-194706.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f30SR0wP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/75RT4Ny7/20190101-194735.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75RT4Ny7)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKFrZzZB/20190101-194801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKFrZzZB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zV0gtrtx/20190101-194818.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV0gtrtx)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XpV5kJ8Z/20190101-194854.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpV5kJ8Z)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gryRhRvF/20190101-194926.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gryRhRvF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QVZ1VSKJ/20190101-194935.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QVZ1VSKJ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/k6Qm4jrH/20190101-195007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6Qm4jrH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/47kGsD0t/20190101-195050.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47kGsD0t)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dhfvSkm5/20190101-195104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhfvSkm5)
-
Awesome. Thanks Val, I've gotten a few like that and can replicate that exact look. I certainly appreciate the photos and if I run across one of those, I'll revisit the images to make sure I've got it all right.
I can do: 1970's shiny yellow, pale green/grey, the bronze like in your picture, and a light iridescent yellow that looks pretty good. Hit or miss is the iridescent green which is what I'm really trying to get nailed down.
The differences sometimes is a minor surface finish texture, or a chromate temperature.... really splitting hairs.
examples of the one that eludes me:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4867/44746986620_cf93000914_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bb91aj)IMG_0629 (https://flic.kr/p/2bb91aj) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7925/31623716867_600f9e23d3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QbtPgH)IMG_06282 (https://flic.kr/p/QbtPgH) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4900/44746986380_0d114ea374_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bb916b)IMG_06301 (https://flic.kr/p/2bb916b) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
2X to pretty big color variations on new ones right from Holley. Even a brand new, unused carb sitting on a shelf (heated spot or not) for years does change its color.
-
Beautiful work Drew! Your attention to detail on coloring is awesome.
Randy
-
I just love 660's.
This set is going on a tunnel port.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/46554888972_a6830d7bbf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dVTYxw)IMG_1171 (https://flic.kr/p/2dVTYxw) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4830/32732848878_3e3deb195e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RSupzq)IMG_1259 (https://flic.kr/p/RSupzq) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4878/32732847438_8f511be7f6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RSup9A)IMG_1260 (https://flic.kr/p/RSup9A) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7899/46554885422_bca287b3d3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dVTXuj)IMG_1265 (https://flic.kr/p/2dVTXuj) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Drew do you have a FB account for the carbs ? I was wanting to show you some pictures of a chevy 396/375 427/425 carb with adjustable idle air bleeds
-
My personal account is my name.
Carb stuff is found at "Air Fuel Spark"
I document most of my builds there.
Yeah the adjustable air bleeds.... a lot of Chevy carbs had those. I normally drill them out at the main body face and install a restriction there.
-
We had a discussion a little while back on needle and seat Orings.
The old wisdom was "buy Holley parts" because they are superior.
Here is a brand new Holley needle and seat, straight out of a trick kit.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4858/45812673015_3c5bd073b5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cNiVAF)50285464_399245827480821_5923743800882102272_n (https://flic.kr/p/2cNiVAF) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Apparently the "trick" part is getting it to seal. ::)
That seal tells me that the kit has been sitting on a shelf for a good deal of time.
-
Drew,
You do many secondary metering block conversions for the 660's ? I realize this is modern mostly made on all out race carbs and also that for alot of the 2x4 street setups there's just not enough room on the standard manifolds commonly used on the street.
Just a curious question, no rime or reason.
-
Nope, can't say that I do. As you mentioned, most are being used inline, so space is more critical.
-
I have used the #4841 secondary metering block on sideways 660's and it works fine. There are special secondary plates that accept replaceable jets out there. The '60s version was made by Eelco and was pot metal like the carbs. Newer versions ( Quick fuel and others) are aluminum. I have used both on my Ford inline intakes ( non high riser) with no ill effects. Replacable jets are FAR better.
Randy
-
Hi Drew sent you a message for a pair of 600s . Thanks Marc
-
I replied but it didn’t go through. Probably this bad cell service.
Anyway they’ll be done the first week in March.
I’ll be home the first week of February and will most likely msg you when I get close to completion.
-
To keep this back on a technical level....
If you roll through this whole thread you will see the main bits changing in color somewhat.
I’m using most of the same chemicals, just in different strengths and combinations.
There is no “correct” way that I’m aware of yet, but the acid etch to open the pores is different for each chromate. I have officially tried out a handful more since I’ve started and the results are wildly different.
PH monitoring has become an hourly process while working with both the acids and chromates.
Surface prep and cleanliness is much more specific now. I’m using a cleaner that is designed specifically for zinc die cast. E163, Epik, and EPrep have been added to the roster.
I wish I knew what if any presoak Holley originally used. I’m inclined to believe that they wouldn’t need to since the castings were fresh and already clean on a molecular level.
The only reason I think they did use a presoak/etch is you can often see it’s tell tale trace of washing out the chromate in a few spots.
On another note, I’m only a handful of carbs away from documenting the calibration of every Ford Fe performance carb of the 1960’s. I hope to make this information available in printed form in a year or two. That isn’t for any glamour on my end, I’d just hate to see the information lost to time.
-
...On another note, I’m only a handful of carbs away from documenting the calibration of every Ford Fe performance carb of the 1960’s. I hope to make this information available in printed form in a year or two. That isn’t for any glamour on my end, I’d just hate to see the information lost to time.
Which ones are you missing? Any we can help with?
Thanks in advance for making the info available.
-
Some of the early 390 and 406 carbs. I’m cutting a deal for a few of those. Not a bad thing tho, as most of those cores are under $400.
I’m woefully inadequate on the CJ carbs, mostly due to them being too expensive to just outright buy. So I pretty much wait for customer stuff to trickle in.
I’ll eventually post a list on my page offering a seriously reduced rate to restore the ones I’m missing.
It wasn’t even something I thought about until roughly a month ago when I was asked to restore a few different 2x4 sets and realized when I’m done with those I’ll have done every 2x4 set ford made for the Fe. Got my wheels turning.
As always, if anyone wanted a specific calibration, just ask.
-
On another note, I’m only a handful of carbs away from documenting the calibration of every Ford Fe performance carb of the 1960’s. I hope to make this information available in printed form in a year or tow. That isn’t for any glamour on my end, I’d just hate to see the information lost to time.
That would be one of the most useful things I've seen in a long time. I'd get in line to pay for the information.
-
Drew how about a C3AE-B early 427 Q code? I plan one of these days to get your info and send you it along with a set of BJ/BK's.
-
I’ll msg you.
-
CU CV carbs....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4879/40065960513_8c168e4346_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/243uwbD)IMG_1016 (https://flic.kr/p/243uwbD) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4849/40065959993_bbe1a3b944_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/243uw2F)IMG_1496 (https://flic.kr/p/243uw2F) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7890/40065959543_e549ae2768_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/243uvTV)IMG_1497 (https://flic.kr/p/243uvTV) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Beautiful :)
-
The whitish/grey specs you see all over the surface in the first picture is honestly the worst thing.
It's water based corrosion.
I had to re clean many parts multiple times and polish for hours to get it out. Kinda like rust, it's a soft corrosion, so moisture and debris can get inside of it. Chromate will NOT take to that. You need to clean inside the corrosion to get a good surface. With junk carbs, no biggie, just buff or sand the corrosion off. With valuable originals like this, that isn't an option.
They came out pretty well tho. All original parts, nothing substituted.
-
Drew ,
Try white vinegar on the white corroded stuff. Same guy that told me about alodyne told mer about white vinegar removing that crap.
Randy
-
I'll try it for sure. Acids like that work on the white fluff, just melts it. I dunno about the surface stuff, I think I'll still see it wicking in. Either way, vinegar is cheap.
-
Yes they look like they have been stored in a
very damp place
Fortunately where i live the air is very dry so
we don't have corrosion like that unless you store
things in a potato cellar or something like that
-
That white fuzz can be a real disaster in newer stuff running with the alcohol in current fuels. The alcohol absorbs/holds water and if it sits in an old bowl with marginal plating it grows tons of that fuzz. I've seen it render a metering block irreparable.
-
I had a heck of a time recently with Mr Charlie's AM carb just because of this.
It had the corrosion eat into the secondary side of the metering block. I was able to flycut that surface. The primary metering block kept leaking into the intake tho. I couldn't find it.... plugged the power valve, nope, still leaked, saw it leaking out of the transfer slot just on the driverside.
After many hours, finally figured it out.... the casting between the accelerator pump passage in the metering block was leaking into the idle well right there between the passage and transition slot hole in the block. This was slowly draining the bowl as the engine sat.
No way to fix it, so I replaced the metering block. Hate to see it on a classic. Thankfully the CU/CV were just external corrosion, the innerds looked fine, and hopefully I'll test them out tomorrow, they've got an appointment with a Lightweight :P
-
Very nice Drew
-
I run across the white/gray sh*t often on marine carbs, both externally and internally especially carbs that have used dock gas, usually has a lot of water in it. I've had good results using "CLR", the stuff that just about every supermarket carries. Soak in 100% for as long as the bubbles and foaming continues.
-
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7820/46407185764_d22ba38fa8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dGQXwu)52389985_417971008941636_5504906862283194368_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dGQXwu) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
That's a lot of time and effort sitting there. And a pretty cool picture.
-
That is why I took the picture, just looked right
The coolest part is hearing about all the cars they are going on.
-
Is this were we poke fun at Drew for needed an intervention for an addiction?? ::)
WOW. That’s a lot of carbs. They look great too.
-
I don't have the problem, you have the problem...... :P
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7922/46416712344_047641be39_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrS)52320363_418422392229831_670823399999668224_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrS) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7890/46416712334_43683889bf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrG)52365713_418422418896495_8052688458772119552_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrG) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Drew: if I read my screen correctly about 24 carbs per level and at 3 levels, around 72 carbs? How many more are you hiding in plain sight?
My madness' are FE Valve covers and after market Distributors. Seems like Jay B's are any thing he can dream up !!!!
Richard >>> FERoadster
-
Yeah, I still have all the 2v, and the intake/carb combos. I’m just trying to organize and make inventory easier.
-
Ok, I was going to show a table with a few of my carbs, but NOW, you win! I had one table covered, but not THREE racks. LOL I thought maybe I was addicted, but you got me beat three times over. Joe-JDC
-
So uhhhh got any for sale Joe :P (just kidding, I'm broke)
The bottom rack are just 1850-1's for 2x4 usage
Second rack are vintage double pumpers on one side and 750VS on the other.
Top rack are Ford specific carbs, Shelby/CJ/GT stuff on one side and center squirters on the other.
I've got probably 20 carbs taken apart and cleaned in boxes, and about as many customer carbs in process.
I also have 4-5 complete intake/carb setups. I had intended to make available full drop in intake/carb/fuel log/linkage/air cleaner assemblies. Just haven't had the time really.
Back to tech info, my plating tank finally took a dump. Can't get any useful plating out of it, so I've been chromating all the customer stuff and waiting for some new chems to show up.
Really frustration to have 14 carbs ready to go, just pending linkage/hardware and assembly.
On a brighter note, I've invested in a Hull Cell tester and professional plating chems, so hopefully I'll be able to better trouble shoot the plating bath.
The "hobby" type kits are cool, but without technical papers you are at best guessing on the chemistry. The basic start up kits are decent if you are just doing a few bolts, but with no ability to titrate or test plating is at best hit and miss. Hopefully I'll be able to have better quality control, consistency and even make up a "back up bath" so if in the future I have an issue, I can work on it in peace while I'm still able to turn out good parts.
-
I don't have the problem, you have the problem...... :P
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7922/46416712344_047641be39_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrS)52320363_418422392229831_670823399999668224_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dHFMrS) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
My problem......I have one shelf with 3 carbs that no one may ever want!!! :-[
You on the other hand look to be running out of storage space and will have to add two more shelves to your rack. :o. :o.
Glad you can get a laugh, my warped since of humor isn’t always well received, especially in written form.
-
I'm a sailor, I have to have a good sense of humor and tough skin by nature. There are a few idiots on this group that get to me, but *shrugs* I just ignore them.
Funny you mention two more shelves.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7800/40185513823_f072337c5e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24e4gdB)IMG_1397 (https://flic.kr/p/24e4gdB) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/40185512673_f226b43378_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24e4fSM)IMG_1398 (https://flic.kr/p/24e4fSM) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
I was just planting a seed with the shelves!!
-
Now that's a formidable collection of Holley carbs! No madness there, just some real deal carb building. Heck, the only carb shop I know of with a hotrod '63 Galaxie carb dyno. 8) Nice shop, Drew.
-
Now that's a formidable collection of Holley carbs! No madness there, just some real deal carb building. Heck, the only carb shop I know of with a hotrod '63 Galaxie carb dyno. 8) Nice shop, Drew.
I do try.....
as far as the Galaxie and F100 test mules, I see them as essential. Not tooting my own horn by any means, but I got 14 carbs this past year from three highly respected FE carb builders because they didn't run right. Most times it was a minor setting or a leaking needle, something that would have been caught if the carbs were tested.
-
new plating station is working out nice. It can't take the same amps per square ft load, but the quality of the coatings are super nice.
The other side benefit of this new bath is the "throw" of it. What I mean, I can plate the inside of a pipe almost perfectly. This is very cool as previously it was hard to plate springs, pipes, and ever screws if the threads were deep, the tips of the thread would take most of the zinc.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7823/46319819685_4dc972aac5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dz8bCM)52800477_423009711771099_3224628967294107648_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dz8bCM) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7814/46510749674_4a4b60ff1d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dRZKt9)53036277_10216502514628939_1601682751667306496_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dRZKt9) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7862/46319819635_9059bd8fa7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dz8bBV)53495608_422580138480723_5685362795147689984_n (https://flic.kr/p/2dz8bBV) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Very impressive. Those parts look brand new! Are you able to do parts like factory fuel logs for 2x4 & 3x2 setups?
-
I did some fuel logs a couple months ago. Came out quite nicely.
That was a 3x2 set I did that was in an engine fire. Took some work to get that black smut off everything.
-
Really nice looking parts Drew.
-
Thanks to folks like you Marc that helped fund my project early on.
-
JayB wanted me to fix up his 850 center squirters.
So I did.... the whole build is here on my page:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/AirFuelSParkTech/photos/?tab=album&album_id=423427608395976
If you prefer the cliff notes, they are below.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7847/46326316725_a51515abe2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dzGtYH)IMG_1362 (https://flic.kr/p/2dzGtYH) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7802/32298770457_b88c4021e3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8DbH)IMG_1443 (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8DbH) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7814/32298769837_bb7a85e7ce_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8D12)IMG_1444 (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8D12) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7824/32298769247_e74bbff654_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8CPR)IMG_1447 (https://flic.kr/p/Rd8CPR) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
and lastly, lets compare my process to brand new in the box Holleys
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7874/33365135138_5c52ece345_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SQn3fE)IMG_1448 (https://flic.kr/p/SQn3fE) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7821/46517283454_987af6f9dd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dSzeJw)IMG_1449 (https://flic.kr/p/2dSzeJw) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
That is some nice plating. The Holly one looks like it was done by a one
thoted guy in a rickety shack down by a swamp in comparison;D
-
It's called "burning the plate" it's from trying to plate too quickly with too much current. Even tho there is math to figure how much current you are supposed to apply, really it's a feel kinda thing, would be hard to teach without just doing it and messing some stuff up to find the upper limits.
-
You are welcome Drew can't wait to get them . I'm starting the engine with the old ones Saturday morning. I'll gey a few picture and maybe a short video if I can,not to good with those things.
Marc.
-
Drew,
If you don't want the throttle shaft , or only the end of it to be plated , try applying wax ( parafin type) to those areas before plating and it should keep the natural steel from being plated. Holley plated the throttle levers before they attached them to the throttle shaft. One more little trick towards absolute perfection in a restoration. Your attention to detail is second to none and better than some of the "biggies" out there. Beautiful work.
Randy
-
Thanks Randy....
What I have done for the ones with brass ends that have plain colored throttle shafts is carefully buffing the end after plating so the original color comes out.
I know you mentioned the wax before, I actually bought some to try it out but haven't gotten around to it.
I've been getting told I need ink stamps too, I'm just lazy and haven't done it yet. I think it's kinda cheesy, but whatever folks want is what they want. Well I say lazy but I'm working on carb number 24 and it's day 23 of my time off. Have to go to work Tuesday, so I better wrap all this up.
-
Drew, I have a friend that is interested in a 390'GT' carb, would you have a number that he could call you at???? thanks..............Tom
-
Sure, I've got almost all of the GT carbs. Might be missing one or two.
I'll pm you my number, I get enough spam phone calls.
-
Hi Drew,
I've been follow this thread for awhile and want to commend you on your efforts. I have been playing around it may self and haven't been satisfied with my progress.
PM me I would like to discuss your plating process.
I won't be near a computer this weekend so hopefully next week.
Thanks,
Rob
-
Sure, msg me any questions you have. I'm kinda bad at just explaining everything, would be best if ya just stopped by the shop for a day or two :P
I won't lie, 6 months a year that I'm home I'm in the shop 7am-10pm or later. I won't even say how much money I've wasted trying things that never panned out. Plating has been the best/worst thing i ever decided to get into. It's 30% chemistry 30% artwork 30% voodoo and I haven't figured out the other 10% quite yet.
-
The responses (to me) show how much people appreciate your "I give a damn" attitude. "Half a$$ed" is not a part of your vocabulary and it shows. I wish I could do what you do.
-
The responses (to me) show how much people appreciate your "I give a damn" attitude. "Half a$$ed" is not a part of your vocabulary and it shows. I wish I could do what you do.
I try, sure I miss the mark once in awhile.
Last time I made a hobby into a business it took me 7 years to realize that I hate paying bills with something I love (or formerly loved) to do. It's far to easy to rush when the electric bill is due Monday..... My bills get paid by my day job, this is just for fun and any profit is turned into more expensive cores to study and document.
All that said, for the Shelby guys out there, I recently took ownership of a S2CS-9510-H carb, list 3948, dated late 1966. Does anyone have a clue what this may have gone on? My searches have brought up little to nothing.
Thanks,
Drew
-
I looked in my Shelby performance parts book dated 4-1-66 and did not see it there. The only 2 listed in this version is S1MK-9510-A 715cfm and S1MK-9510-B 780cfm. Unfortunatly there are no associated ID's listed. Jim
-
If Shelby's common numbering applies, the S2 (vs S1) makes it a 427 part (vs 289) but I haven't found a specific listing for that carb, either.
-
Thanks for the feedback guys. I have searched through all my Shelby data and can't find anything. Seems an odd one, I've emailed a bunch of Shelby folks, will be curious what we figure out.
A quick look at the venturi show it to be a 780, lemans bowls, transfer tube, etc. Part of the reason I'd like to know is due to it having a universal throttle shaft, I can change it as I have plenty of the original types laying around, but I'm not sure which one it should be.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7919/47281841531_211eb3a2f4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f38Ndk)53402698_541183333035992_2815879807361875968_n (https://flic.kr/p/2f38Ndk) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7825/47229825522_77cce80593_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eXxcEA)53396379_372344490271269_9049265938259509248_n (https://flic.kr/p/2eXxcEA) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7897/47281842061_14a1a5392f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f38Nnt)52987299_1028000420720747_5915881493879586816_n (https://flic.kr/p/2f38Nnt) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
If Shelby's common numbering applies, the S2 (vs S1) makes it a 427 part (vs 289) but I haven't found a specific listing for that carb, either.
My understanding of the Shelby part numbering system is that Shelby American started using “S1xx” in the 1965 model year when the ‘65 GT 350 Mustangs came online, then went to “S2xx” in the 1966 model year. In the 1967 model year when Ford started sending more Ford personnel to advise Shelby American someone realized that more closely following the Ford part numbering system would make more sense, and part numbers started changing to “S7xx”, and then in the ‘68 model year to “S8xx”. So it really didn’t have anything to do with 289 or 427. As some examples of that the picture below is a partial list of ‘66 Shelby GT 350 part numbers from the SAAC ‘65-‘67 Shelby Registry, and you can see all the “S2xx” numbers starting to appear, and of course there was no 427 or GT 500 option on the Shelby Mustang in the ‘66 model year. The “S2xx” on Drew’s carb also fits with the 1966 date code his carb has. I have notes on a couple other Holleys that aren’t on the usual production lists, but I don’t have any info on that carb, it will be interesting to see what turns up.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2cwcCXx/747-D1-B9-E-0-A8-A-4-E78-A835-41-A3-FC8-BD11-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJNXptQ5)
-
Looking through the catalog I have everything listed that fits only 427 is "S2". Everything that fits 289 or 289 and 427 is part numbered "S1".
-
Please pardon my ignoramusness, but what is the trick thing about LeMans fuel bowls? Better for?
-
To not get fuelstarvation when taking a fast curve ,or so i have been told
-
My understanding of the Shelby part numbering system is that Shelby American started using “S1xx” in the 1965 model year when the ‘65 GT 350 Mustangs came online, then went to “S2xx” in the 1966 model year....
Ah, thank you for the education! That makes sense.
So many of the 427 parts got the S2 numbers that it looked like that was the difference.
-
Please pardon my ignoramusness, but what is the trick thing about LeMans fuel bowls? Better for?
"Side hung" float bowls don't like to turn corners like road racers have to. The LeMans bowls were created to keep fuel slosh from causing flooding on left turns with high G loads. The center pivot float bowls that we use today followed that original design.
-
The Holley date code is DEC 4, 1966 which is for the '67 model run. In following SAI's logic , the S2"C"S would be second generation Cobra ( 427) as the GT350 carburetors were S2"M"S 9510-A numbered (list 3259). The normal carburetor used on a 427 Cobra was a list 3255 and C5AF 9510 BV on the air horn. This carburetor , being a list 3948 was a later design as evidenced by the later list number. It is not a common number and one I haven't seen on an original SAI vehicle in the 50 + years I've followed and owned them. I'll look at what I have on it tonight when I get home. There is a smaller carburetor S7SK numbered that is also out there and not a "production line " installed carburetor.
Randy
-
The BV is shown as a race carb for a 65-67 High Riser. Lots of HR's on the road circuit?
-
Randifer, the BV is shown as a race carb for a 65-67 High Riser. Lots of HR's on the road circuit?
Thinking [I know, I know], there were not a heck of a lot of "production" High Risers in 65-67, so maybe Ford sold them over-the-counter with a single quad option?
-
I know HR's were '64 out of DST and OTC for several years afterwards. I refer to the mustangtek site, which claims the BV as "65-67 427 Hi riser Race". The Cobra applications are shown as unverified. Why would they say Hi Rise if they are talking about a carb? Obviously, the '66-'67's are MR's, but they don't say that. A person such as myself might think that BV's were "also" used on a single quad HR, which, as I mentioned, might only have been available OTC, maybe in a package with an intake.
Why am I trying to clarify this? I have a cherry BV sitting on an equally cherry C4-G intake. The carb has a 603 date. I do not see a date on the intake. I'm trying to figure out if the carb and intake were born together, that's all. If there was a chance that there was a carb/intake combo OTC for the HR, or if there was a complete High Riser 4V DP crate engine available (I'll bet there was), then I would consider my parts to be possibly mated from the factory.
-
To those watching, having just restored a BE and a BV the calibrations are vastly different.
The 3255 is a very tame street calibration. The 3255-1 is a much richer calibration that elongates the idle circuit for a good bit more while bringing on the mains sooner. Conclusions are easy to draw based on this.
The -1 also has all four boosters with cutouts, it was obviously designed for a specific intake manifold.
This is info gathered by studying the calibration, running both of them with an O2 sensor and noting the circuit activity. Mustangtek is a neat resource, but like many things errors are possible. On another note, just because a carb was designed for a specific purpose doesn’t mean they didn’t sell a pile of them over the counter or for other uses.
Thanks for looking into the mystery Shelby carb. Artis sold it to me and I’ve been trying to figure it out. When I get back home in a month I may tear into it just to see if there are any clues there.
-
Randy, could a 3255 also be stamped as a "BE" with a mid 65 date, short air horn and Le Mans bowls ?
-
Randy, could a 3255 also be stamped as a "BE" with a mid 65 date, short air horn and Le Mans bowls ?
I am not Mr. Gillis, but a 3255 is BE and a 3255-1 is BV. Randy was in error referring to a 3255 as a BV.
-
The BE is a 3255 and a BV is a dash 1. Dash one indicates a revision to the original design and appears to be calibration as Drew said . The 3255 series is somewhat unique in that the list number was used on side hung AND LeMans float bowls , secondary metering blocks or jet plates. That was not a normal Holley practice. Because of this "I" go by the Ford number and apologize for any confusion. Simply going by the list number "could" be confusing as you can see. With most of the "in the day" Holley engineers having "passed on" , it is difficult to get the reason why this happened. While books AND the MPC may list the BV as a high riser carb , it is the carb I have seen on Q code 427 Medium Risers.
Randy
-
Did this get started from autocorrect of FElony to Lony??
-
If anyone feels the need to contact me ever, my email is
AirFuelSpark78@gmail.com
Otherwise I’ll be hanging out on the fanatics page which is moderated or on my own business page.
-
Drew,
Since the list 3948 carb does not appear in conventional Holley printed books OLD or current , it is one of the specialty carbs made for Ford that never reached "production" status. List numbers missing from the Holley manuals were produced and I too have many that do not appear in the Holley manuals. I "may" have information on it in my experimental part number log book. There is no mention of this carburetor in any of the extensive Shelby American information I have. Oddities DID get out of Holley as I have a 3255 variant main body with no numbers on the air horn that came directly from Shelby American when they were out here in LA. It was a complete carburetor when I got it .
Randy
-
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/20190307_163501_zpsikr7vo8r.jpg)
Holley list number assignment book for parts released to production
-
Holley list number assignment book for parts released to production
Where's the 3555 BE?
-
Holley list number assignment book for parts released to production
Where's the 3555 BE?
Great question. You will need to ask the guys that wrote on that document. In the 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s & up until they moved from Warren, MI to BG, KY.
Assignment book was hand written the whole darn time. I am fairly certain that the engineering folks had a similar document for development number assignments that may not have made official production status.
-
I meant 3255, of course. Seems like this whole Holley sub-hobby is hazy at best. Not sure how much it impacts the overall value of a vehicle. I mean, if you are looking at something "rare" in the 75k and up range, how much more are you really going to pay for a BV over a 3310 or a -U, when it comes down to it.
-
My apologies for letting this thread get a little out of hand, I've been buried in CNC stuff and haven't been watching as closely as usual. I've deleted several posts and edited others that really don't conform to forum rules, and some other follow-up posts. A civil tone is required here. Thanks, Jay
-
My apologies for letting this thread get a little out of hand, I've been buried in CNC stuff and haven't been watching as closely as usual. I've deleted several posts and edited others that really don't conform to forum rules, and some other follow-up posts. A civil tone is required here. Thanks, Jay
Nice work on the editing. Did I say that out loud? Anyway, isn't there someone here who is an expert on Hi Riser production? Has a bunch of internal memos and stuff. I forgot his name, maybe starts with a K. For sure on the N54 forum, not certain if he moved over here.
-
Randy, as always your posts are accurate and to the point thanks for sharing your experiences here.
-
Those Le Mans (Lee Ma) carburetors have been reproduced for many years so there's a bunch of the re-pops floating around.
-
One final note in regards to this journey.
If you or someone you know wants to learn this trade, maybe this thread will help, at least I hope it will.
It has now been 2 years since I first experimented with plating and chromate work.
It's been 1.5 years since I got serious about it. Really only the last 6 months have I started being happy with the results and getting some consistent results that I could expect.
I've still got a long way to go in regards to getting chromate to take on corroded castings, etc. I've probably had 150 or so carbs through the door since I started messing with this, the first 3/4 were all hit and miss, if I could go back with what I know now and redo them, I would. Maybe someone will try this and succeed right away, but I think my progression is probably more realistic, so don't be discouraged if it takes a ton of time and material to start getting things decent.
To those here and elsewhere who entrusted me with their precious carbs, I thank you all. I may have missed the mark (especially with my early stuff), but I always tried my best. It was all of your material headed in and out the door that helped me learn all this.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48105802848_3d2dc09b42_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWPcW)64626206_483412015730868_5880840011057725440_n (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWPcW) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48105870952_4dbcf02358_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghXas9)64631840_483411919064211_7784700989335928832_n (https://flic.kr/p/2ghXas9) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48105748976_ace146717e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWxc7)64832461_482882609117142_991049109253128192_n (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWxc7) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48105802753_d48429a05d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWPbi)65158546_483411942397542_2676085708573114368_n (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWPbi) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48105748961_b27004e634_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWxbR)65187123_483411972397539_8391890905497337856_n (https://flic.kr/p/2ghWxbR) by Drew Pojedinec (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154777202@N07/), on Flickr
-
Looking good Drew! I need to save up and send you a couple more.
-
Looking good Drew! I need to save up and send you a couple more.
I have the ones you already sent taken apart and cleaned, I only had 20 days off this time, so just didn't get to them.
-
You are an artist, very rare these days
-
No rush Drew. I'm of the "Don't rush the monkey if you want a good show" mindset. I did get my Galaxie shortblock back from the machinist earlier than I expected. But my Mustang engine has been waiting on me for awhile now, so you won't be holding me up.