Jay, where does the strength come from in your Shelby block?

[Qikbbstang]

I was thinking on your mentioning offsetting the cylinders to fit larger bores, the block being aluminum and studs hold the heads on.  Just seems aluminum blocks could only be just so strong in that they are not all that different from a production iron FE block that was fitted with sleeves in all bores, with water jackets and relatively fixed exterior dimensions. Just hard to comprehend where the strength comes from in an alum FE block?
     I've seen steel encased into aluminum castings such as cast pistons in the pin support areas and in days of old iron bores that looked to be cast into Honda motorcycle cylinders. Do they ever cast steel supports into aluminum FE blocks ?

[cammerfe]

I'm not Jay, but I know of no FE aluminum blocks that have cast-in ferrous reinforcement.

My ECTA engine is a good example of an aluminum engine designed from scratch with performance in mind. It's a varied-displacement V-8, used in several Ford-owned marques to good purpose. When Ford bought Jaguar they were faced with engineering from the nineteenth century. They, therefore, created a completely new facility where they designed, from a clean sheet, a new engine---the first Jaguar V-8.

Originally they used the Nicisil process for the bores but there was a lot of sulphur in the European gas for some months at that time and the sulphuric acid created by the combustion process caused many engine failures due to bore damage. The manufacturing process was altered to include cast-in ferrous liners and that holds true to this day.

Other features of the design include water jackets that are only a couple of inches deep around the cylinder areas so that the block is largely solid, overhead cams so there's no cam tunnel, and head bolts long enough to reach the entire lengths of the cylinders.

For what it's worth, I'm participating in a design exercise that'll bring all these features to availability in an aluminum block specifically for the Cammer. (More later!!)

KS

[turbohunter]

Oh you tease

[cjshaker]

The Shelby block is stronger in nearly every aspect. It has solid main webbing with caps that are machine fit the full length vertically with dual side bolts, thicker decks than any other block with head studs that go the full distance and tie into the main bulkheads. They also have full support for the dry installed cylinder liners. But the majority of strength comes from the very thick bulkheads at the main supports. The block is just stronger in every single area.

And Ken, it surprises me that anyone would invest in another block design specifically for the cammer. I'd almost have to assume it would be a low volume deal. Sounds interesting though.

[HolmanMoodyStroppeGang]

SHELBY block strength is for many reasons Robert and friends,

First, Nick Arias has built more winning blocks than most and is an engineering genius. He has designed many winning engines that are his own designs for example.

We all got the news this block was in the works and FOntana Engine works was where it began. Fontana made a bunch of winning blocks and heads

So, FORD got involved too. SHELBY got the key engineers to help, many friends spent time doing whatever they could to build a great platform

Robert Rice has been a racer for life, and the Foreman and close to SHELBY, he had huge experience racing, and had his hand on every block from day one

Mike LeFevere trained under Wally Cartright, years after I did.  Wally was one of the best FE guys Ford could hire into Stroppe. He built Les Ritcheys famous FE's until we lost Les. Stroppe felt sorry for his best guys and hired them

Wally built FE's like a swiss watch, raced them and won over and over.   He had key insight to the entire FE design, construction and race use.  He went on the build for Ed Pink and others

The block ended up almost identical in key ways to a JP1 block

For guys who don't run blown fuel stuff, JOE PISANO poured his decades of winning tricks into this block for Top Fuel and Floppers, so in the 80s-90s, the records fell with a JP!...like, 1st to go 300 MPH and more

The JP1 was from the same or similar bones, so when a max effort blown FE was done lasts Summer close by, the block just yawned at 1500 horses, then the screws got turned up and it approached 2000 with a bunch of boost, intercoolers and special gas.  Again, the block yawned

The strength comes from the caps as mentioned, they fit like a glove and are top quality USA billet

The block is made where the famous FORD parts were too, BUDDY BAR

Only the best certified ALCOA aluminum is used. ALCOA aluminum is the best in the world

Special treatments are employed too, but besides the thicker webs, these blocks have studs way down to the bulkheads, well into the webs and close to the mains basically

They have the longest and strongest studs in any aluminum FE block

They don't cheap out on the sleeves either. The best are used in blown fuel, DARTON fine alloy iron, centrifugal cast, aerospace quality.   Really tough and inter locked.   These help too

Another huge aspect is attributable to ARIAS, Ford actually fought it at first

Nick and the engineers redesigned the oiling to make the mains the first circuit and first bleed or priority. The cam is now second, not first.   This is a huge benefit under hard use like the 1,000 HP gas burners we do today

The bottom end stays together better this way and it is race proved on hundreds of top shelf blown cars making huge power....

To me, this was the block everybody dreamed of when the SOHC was winning a lot at the Drags

So about 30 plus years of building race tasked blocks that win and live is inside these basically

There are many inside tricks too, about where to add metal and where to not add metal

And they have the highest strength to mass ratio I know of, at only 124 lbs..

They are also easily fixed if you pitch a rod or something, drop a valve

Very common to weld, re machine and race a hurt race block like this with little down side

we have also done them out to 4.440 bore....using a big bore kit

I like them a lot and usually keep a few around. If a fast guy needs one I try to help the guy go fast

It is kind of funny, if you just mount one on an engine stand, they boys just stare and stare at one usually. They are really pretty because the machine work and design looks fast just sitting there to many of us.

The dimensions remain very stable after use too.  It is also pretty obvious, they demand a high price but you never ever find them for sale used...that says a lot.  People like them and keep them.  They are an investment like many top tier things, but you get your duckets back when you turn it some day

Hope this helps you ponder your issue

But to be clear, I like and appreciate any and all new FE parts.   

Kind regards

[cjshaker]

Nick and the engineers redesigned the oiling to make the mains the first circuit and first bleed or priority. The cam is now second, not first.   This is a huge benefit under hard use like the 1,000 HP gas burners we do today

I realize the oiling circuit is raised in the Shelby block to ease fixing if it throws a rod out the side, but the mains priority is hardly the design of "Nick and the engineers" seeing as how every aftermarket block has main oiling priority, as Ford designed it FIFTY years ago.

[cammerfe]

...it surprises me that anyone would invest in another block design specifically for the cammer. I'd almost have to assume it would be a low volume deal. Sounds interesting though.

Actually not much of a new design. We simply intend to leave off some of the characteristics that are necessary for putting a cam in the block and also removing the lower parts of the water jacket sand. Other items are still under consideration, but will be of the sort that mostly requires differences in machining. Main oiling will come through the side of the block as is now done with some TF motors and we'll be making use of a dry-sump system. The ultimate goal is to have a block strong enough to take a pair of snails without the necessity to keep the wick turned down.

And again, more later!

KS

[900HP]

The Shelby block is stronger in nearly every aspect. It has solid main webbing with caps that are machine fit the full length vertically with dual side bolts, thicker decks than any other block with head studs that go the full distance and tie into the main bulkheads. They also have full support for the dry installed cylinder liners. But the majority of strength comes from the very thick bulkheads at the main supports. The block is just stronger in every single area.

And Ken, it surprises me that anyone would invest in another block design specifically for the cammer. I'd almost have to assume it would be a low volume deal. Sounds interesting though.

Jay's block is no-longer dry-sleeved.  The bores are large enough and moved far enough that there be water on the other sides of those sleeves

[jayb]

Actually, I broke through into the water jacket on 3 of the sleeves; the other 5 are still dry.  But the hard-block up to the water pump holes adds a significant amount of support, especially to the 3 sleeves where we broke through.