FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Cobrajet2 on March 10, 2020, 09:54:37 PM
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How much "extra" lash does it take to send up a red flag that a cam/lifter is going bad?
We broke in the cam for the 445 in my Fairlane Hardtop with no issues. Solid flat tappet, nitrated cam, EDM Crower lifters, break in oil and inner springs removed.
2-2500 rpm for 20 minutes, or so. All went good. Currently, I am at break-in plus about 50 street driven miles. Easy on the rpm's, but plenty of accel and de-cel.
This past weekend, we pulled the rocker assembly's and swapped out the break-in springs for the ones called for by the cam we are using. Everything looked fine upon inspection and going back together. I run through the valve lash adjustments and all seem fine, most are a hair loose...a couple .001, 3,4,5 thou. maybe, from their original setting. I think, okay, wearing in a little. I reset them and move on. I got to #5 Intake and it was .025 off it original setting. I was setting them at .016 and this measured .041.
Should I reset it and put some miles on the car, and remeasure. Or should I dig into it now? As of now, I have not cut open the oil filter. I am working on getting a cutter.
Anyones thoughts appreciated.
Mike
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One thing went through my mind, you might be able to answer from how you did the adjustment. Could it be you didn't have it adjusted correctly to begin with, or it came a little loose?
You should be able to check the cam lift and ramp with a dial micrometer and put your mind at rest, especially if you have it open and the rockers off.
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You need to cut open the filter.
If clean, readjust and run it for a 50 miles then recheck
If dirty (with iron particles), dig deeper.
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I'd agree with above. Check the filter and check a couple lobe lifts using the pushrods and a dial gauge. That should give you a definite answer if it's the cam or something else, like maybe the rocker. It would still be possible to get correct lift and increased lash if it were digging into the lifter though, but a filter check would show signs there also.
I've had issues before with stock adjustables. I had to put Crane locking nuts on them and that cured that problem.
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Reset that valve and Run the engine with the valvecover of and check if the pushrod
is rotating. If not you know that lobe is wiped
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^^^^ This. I put a stripe with a China marker (not the coronavirus markers, those are bad) to make it easy to see the rotation.
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This is the reason I finally ordered a good filter cutter. Well that and to hit the $100 free shipping from Speedway...
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Yep, already got the pushrod marked, ready to go. Just waiting on the filter cutter from a friend, and the result. Will take it from there. Pretty sure everything was adjusted correctly at initial start up, and the lock nut was tight on #5 when I went through them.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone been able to fish #5 intake lifter from its bore, and reinstall, without pulling the intake?
Thanks for the reply,
Mike
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Depends on the intake. Should be able to fish a magnet down the pushrod tube and maybe hand it off to the distributor hole though.
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Yes it depends on the intake.
I have done it with a 428CJ iron intake on - telescopic magnet thingy my dad had in his tool box.
Still was a pain in the a.
Cheers
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It would be a factory P.I. intake, so very close to the CJ intake.
Thanks
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Yep, already got the pushrod marked, ready to go. Just waiting on the filter cutter from a friend, and the result. Will take it from there. Pretty sure everything was adjusted correctly at initial start up, and the lock nut was tight on #5 when I went through them.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone been able to fish #5 intake lifter from its bore, and reinstall, without pulling the intake?
Thanks for the reply,
Mike
Well...even if you can fish the lifter out, I'd be much more concerned about the lobe's condition. Mighty hard to tell w/o the cam being removed.
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I had the push rod lower ball end go bad on me on a 390 Mustang. While changing the push rod I changed the lifter also, was able to do it with the manifold on using a pencil magnet. Lota patients when you're in your twenty's. Took about three hours and that's counting getting parts and V/C Gaskets.... Hope you're as lucky
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Due to having to replace a block on an engine with less than 400 miles that I wanted to save the custom cam on. I ran it on the outer springs for 25 minutes then on the inner for 25 minutes per advice here and was lucky enough that the lifters seated with no issue. I also cut the filter open and inspected it. I changed the oil with another seven quarts of Brad Penn 30WT break-in oil and changed it again at 350 miles. I again cut the filer. I used a ton of Isky cam lube as a precautionary measure as well. Almost 1,000 miles since with only a couple quirks.
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Cut the filter open last night and there is enough trash in there to warrant digging deeper into the valve train. Not gonna fire it up again until I can get a better idea of what is good/bad. Had a Jomar no-by-pass filter on it, so maybe dodge a bullet as far as the rest of the motor goes. Gonna pluck that lifter out tomorrow night and try to look at the cam lobe with a bore scope.
Maybe I get lucky like 67428GT500. I don't feel so lucky right now, though.
Mike
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I think you have a good plan.
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I wish you luck. Nothing worse than the in-out scenario and not being able to enjoy your vehicle. Other good advice is to know your machinist all but intimately. Because when they screw up you take it in the backside EVERY damn time.
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I pulled the suspected bad lifter out last Friday night and had my brother stop by to look things over, since he knows a lot more about engines than myself. Ended up having a normal pattern on the bottom of the lifter, however, there was some question about the wear pattern on the cam lobe, what we could see of it. So, I put it all back together, doubled checked the lash and am going to monitor everything the best I can. Spun the engine around with the plugs still out to build some oil pressure, and I could see the black Sharpie mark I put on #5I pushrod spinning quite well. So that is good. Go to start the engine and no spark. Either not enough voltage to the Pertronix because I have been working the battery pretty hard, or it has crapped out all-together. That's where I'm at.
Mike
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You gotta keep digging. Start by determining what the “trash” in your filter consists of.
Is it magnetic? What color is it? What size are the particles? Are they all the same size/color?
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You gotta keep digging. Start by determining what the “trash” in your filter consists of.
Is it magnetic? What color is it? What size are the particles? Are they all the same size/color?
Yep, gonna monitor that, too. Have a new filter on it, and will cut that open after the motor restarts and I recheck the lash. Original trash from the first filter dissection were non-magnetic, tiny flecks that looked like aluminum foil. There was one small "chip" of steel/iron that had some shine to it. Finally, some small pieces of what looked like gasket material, or possibly silicone sealer?
Mike
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I kept finding a few specks of aluminum in my filter each time I inspected it after an oil change. I could not figure out or trace where it was coming from and I had no other signs of any distress or anything else in the engine. I finally figured it out the last time I changed oil. The cheaply made repro valve cover breathers had a sharper edge to the flat blade that locks it in place. The original Ford ones are contoured carefully and deburred on the edges to keep that from happening. Each time I twisted it on, it would lightly shave a couple of small specs off of the valve covers holes (original CJ covers). I only found it by seeing a spec of aluminum right at the hole when I took it off, and after looking closely, I could see how it was digging into it. Sometimes stuff is hard to track down!
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I would assume the worst. Continuing to run it guarantees more catastrophic damage if there’s a real problem. Now is the time to dig deeper, not later.
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good tip Doug ,, thanks could save someone , like me , down the road .