Oil slinger needed

[blykins]

They may not serve their original purpose and I misplaced mine during reassembly. I didn't use it and the oil seal leaked. I installed and lined up the cover with the factory crank snout tool too. I guess if you're just putting mileage on a quarter mile at a time you're fine. If you actually drive the car I feel it's better to have one.  My two cents. Maybe, just one and a half...

I'll have to show you my install tool sometime that centers the timing cover over the crank snout.   If you use the balancer spacer, there's a chance that the timing cover's weight will depress the seal on one side before you get it snugged down.

That's a good point about the engine's intended purpose.  Hard to get seal/gasket issues when the engine is only driven the equivalent of 25 miles in a season.  However, I've also got customers who drive their cars on a regular basis without issue.  Had a customer call me up this past Saturday, who I built a 427MR for 5 years ago.  He stuck it in a Shelby Cobra replica, put some break-in miles on it, then took it on several Hot Rod Power Tours, where he said he drives around 2000 miles on each of those. 

[turbohunter]

I guess if you're just putting mileage on a quarter mile at a time you're fine. If you actually drive the car I feel it's better to have one.  My two cents. Maybe, just one and a half...

Great comment.
Engines are built to a need. Select the correct parts for the desired purpose.

[turbohunter]

I'll have to show you my install tool sometime that centers the timing cover over the crank snout.   If you use the balancer spacer, there's a chance that the timing cover's weight will depress the seal on one side before you get it snugged down.

I’ve got that plastic tool from an old build.

[dozz302]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

[blykins]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

I think the difference there is that they did R&D for scenarios that were apropos 60 years ago, brought to you by the same R&D guys that used plastic timing gears.   I don't have any experience with "modern" stuff, such as the LS, Gen 3 Hemi, Coyote, etc., but to my knowledge, none of them have oil slingers on the front.   AFAIK, Ford stopped using them in the late 70's.  Can anyone verify?

[TJ]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

I usually agree with one caveat...not every decision that comes out of any given industry is based entirely on research/testing, on what works best, or on what makes the most sense, etc.  Bean counters, marketing and legal sometimes get involved.

[FE4SPDMustang]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

I usually agree with one caveat...not every decision that comes out of any given industry is based entirely on research/testing, on what works best, or on what makes the most sense, etc.  Bean counters, marketing and legal sometimes get involved.

Without a doubt the powers at be want cheap efficiency. The "slinger" serves more than one purpose in this case.  It's an oil barrier. I learned my lesson.
Not a fun job to remove everything on an FE mustang with AC to change a seal and install the "slinger" because you didn't want to spend an hour unloading a bench and cabinets to get to it after it rolled away. Ask this dummy...

[blykins]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

I usually agree with one caveat...not every decision that comes out of any given industry is based entirely on research/testing, on what works best, or on what makes the most sense, etc.  Bean counters, marketing and legal sometimes get involved.

Without a doubt the powers at be want cheap efficiency. The "slinger" serves more than one purpose in this case.  It's an oil barrier. I learned my lesson.
Not a fun job to remove everything on an FE mustang with AC to change a seal and install the "slinger" because you didn't want to spend an hour unloading a bench and cabinets to get to it after it rolled away. Ask this dummy...

I can promise you it wasn't the slinger's fault.  You got the timing cover crooked on the first try and nailed it the second try. 

[jayb]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the oil tins that go under the rocker assemblies do actually work pretty well.  I tested this as part of the R&D done for my book, and on pages 233-234 there are pictures of the oil level in the pan while the engine is running, first with no restrictors and no tins, then with only restrictors, and then only with the tins.  The tins performed the best at returning oil to the pan, based on the level in the sight gauge while the engine was running.  Prior to this test I had always just thrown the tins away; now I use them whenever possible.  More oil in the pan is always good...

[FE4SPDMustang]

After skimming thru all this, I'm sure Ford Motor Company didn't spend millions of dollars in research and development for nothing.
Unless anyone can produce the kind of research that Ford did > I'd use the little thingy. It's just commonsense.

I usually agree with one caveat...not every decision that comes out of any given industry is based entirely on research/testing, on what works best, or on what makes the most sense, etc.  Bean counters, marketing and legal sometimes get involved.

Without a doubt the powers at be want cheap efficiency. The "slinger" serves more than one purpose in this case.  It's an oil barrier. I learned my lesson.
Not a fun job to remove everything on an FE mustang with AC to change a seal and install the "slinger" because you didn't want to spend an hour unloading a bench and cabinets to get to it after it rolled away. Ask this dummy...

I can promise you it wasn't the slinger's fault.  You got the timing cover crooked on the first try and nailed it the second try.

That may be possible. I put it on BEFORE the oil pan that time. I did use the Ford tool with factory ( AMK) bolts. I also used a speed wrench to snug them. It may have moved the cover.  I just know I don't want to do it until the engine has to come back out.
Thanks for the input. I just don't want to see others suffer my misfortune. 

[blykins]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the oil tins that go under the rocker assemblies do actually work pretty well.  I tested this as part of the R&D done for my book, and on pages 233-234 there are pictures of the oil level in the pan while the engine is running, first with no restrictors and no tins, then with only restrictors, and then only with the tins.  The tins performed the best at returning oil to the pan, based on the level in the sight gauge while the engine was running.  Prior to this test I had always just thrown the tins away; now I use them whenever possible.  More oil in the pan is always good...

I'd have to do some testing on my own to back that up because it's not what I've seen in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfhEuGwkYb8

That's a video, where I was unfortunately trying to find some water leak issues, but I ended up verifying that there's not the flood of oil up top that everyone thinks there is.  No rocker tins in this one, just the correct oil pump and the correct restrictors.  I find it hard to believe that there would be a copious amount of oil that didn't find its way to the oil pan, just from the fact that there's not that much up top. 

As you've probably seen (even with your new cylinder heads), there are combinations where the use of the rocker tins is not feasible (Victor intake, T&D race rockers, etc, etc.) and the engines are no worse for wear because of it, no oil pressure issues, no starvation issues, etc.   I have no issues carrying oil pressure all the way past 7000-7500 rpm and if there was an oil return issue, it would surely show up there.  You could also argue that more oil in the pan could also cause some windage issues in more performance oriented builds. 

[cjshaker]

You could also argue that more oil in the pan could also cause some windage issues in more performance oriented builds.

Good grief, now you're going to insinuate that keeping oil up top is a good thing?    That's probably why you didn't understand the "jab".

[blykins]

You could also argue that more oil in the pan could also cause some windage issues in more performance oriented builds.

Good grief, now you're going to insinuate that keeping oil up top is a good thing?    That's probably why you didn't understand the "jab".

Yes, in a lot of situations I’d rather have the springs oiled and oil kept away from the crank.

Everyone keeps saying how the rocker tins are so important for getting oil back to the pan, but did Jay make provisions for them on his new head design?  I don't see any provision for them on any of the race head/rocker systems (such as Blue Thunder heads that use T&D paired rockers, etc.) either.   Seems to me that on an engine that's going to be turning a lot of rpms for a longer period of time, you'd want the oil back in the pan.....

[blykins]

FWIW, here's Edelbrock's instructions for all FE/SBF double row timing sets:



Maybe someone should tell Vic Jr that he doesn't have any common sense either.

[My427stang]

That's very interesting, wish they would have said why.  I have never used an Edelbrock gear set, probably the low end Cloyes.  Maybe the gear is thicker?