Author Topic: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found  (Read 9160 times)

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WConley

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2021, 09:20:28 PM »
I built a similar smoke tunnel in undergrad school for a GE aircraft engine project.  We were looking at improving fuel mixing in afterburners.  The smoke really helps you visualize turbulence and vortex action.

I can tell you that it's quite hard to make smoke work at high flow velocities!  I had to make a mineral oil burner that ran at high air pressure for that tunnel.  It finally worked well after many re-designs, and we got lots of cool data.  I like to think the improved F-14 D was able to go just a bit faster on less fuel thanks to our work  :)
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

427mach1

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2021, 09:59:04 PM »

I can tell you that it's quite hard to make smoke work at high flow velocities!

Yes, it is!  I worked for 34+ years at the Lockheed Martin Low Speed Wind Tunnel and over half of our testing was automotive (see my avatar photo).  Our smoke generator was good for about 40 mph, anything higher and the smoke plume becomes too thin.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 10:03:31 PM by 427mach1 »

frnkeore

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2021, 03:03:42 AM »
Maybe testing back cuts and/or turbulence flow over the valve head.

I would guess you are right, Frank.  I just don't know how much I would be able to tell by the smoke pattern.  That is, how would you interpret it, since it is visual?   Would Smokey just be looking for the smoothest flow and assume that is best? Or something else?  I don't know. 

paulie
I think the way Smokey approached things, he tried to leave no stone, unturned and my only guess, as I stated, was he was looking for clues, in how the back cut and valve head worked, if it was me, I would also have been testing different margin shapes, too and I doubt that he would over look that either.

Whether or not, it would be directly applicable to a port, I can't say as port velocity is much higher and differently shaped than his a open tunnel.  That said, aero flow has been well documented, since the '30's and most aero flow has the same basics. We wouldn't still be using poppet valves if, there was a more reliable way to open and close the opening.

Between '78 & '80, I worked at ELLCO Engineering (AKA Experimental Engineering), in Irvine, CA. In those years, we worked on the stealth and cruise missile R&D programs. I wasn't a Model Maker but, work directly with them, doing the machining needed. I made supersonic wind tunnel models, out of solid PH17-4 SS for the Tennessee wind tunnel and templates, used in "splining"  the subsonic models. It was extremely interesting stuff and I went on to study aerodynamics, while I work there and to make the plug, mold and the finished rear wing, on my race car below.

Two of the things that I learned, that apply to porting, is that all transitions need to follow a radius and when transitions exceed 12 deg, stall will kick in at that point or  shorty after, w/o something else to control it. In wings, that would be a slot or slat. Another thing that impressed me, is the difference between subsonic and super sonic flow. They need COMPLETELY different designs and I assume, what you hear in a port, when it gets "noisy" is the turbulence of transonic flow, if it's approaching that speed or just turbulence, if not. As I understand it, good port flow, is <300 fps and transonic is around 8-900 fps. I'm not a porter and have never ran a flow bench, maybe Joe could speak more to that.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 12:58:40 PM by frnkeore »
Frank

plovett

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2021, 06:22:24 AM »
Maybe testing back cuts and/or turbulence flow over the valve head.

I would guess you are right, Frank.  I just don't know how much I would be able to tell by the smoke pattern.  That is, how would you interpret it, since it is visual?   Would Smokey just be looking for the smoothest flow and assume that is best? Or something else?  I don't know. 

paulie
I think the way Smokey approached things, he tried to leave no stone, unturned and my only guess, as I stated, was he was looking for clues, in how the back cut and valve head worked, if it was me, I would also have been testing different margin shapes, too and I doubt that he would over look that either.

Whether or not, it would be directly applicable to a port, I can't say as port velocity is much higher and differently shaped than his a open tunnel.  That said, aero flow has been well documented, since the '30's and most aero flow has the same basics. We wouldn't still be using poppet valves if, there was a more reliable way to open and close the opening.

Between '78 & '80, I worked at ELLCO Engineering (AKA Experimental Engineering), in Irvine, CA. In those years, we worked on the stealth and cruise missile R&D programs. I wasn't a Model Maker but, work directly with them, doing the machining needed. I made supersonic wind tunnel models, out of solid PH17-4 SS for the Tennessee wind tunnel and templates, used in "splining"  the subsonic models. It was extremely interesting stuff and I went on to study aerodynamics, while I work there and to make the plug, mold and the finished rear wing, on my race car below.

Two of the things that I learned, that apply to porting, is that all transitions need to follow a radius and when transitions exceed 12 deg, stall will kick in at that point or  shorty after, w/o something else to control it. In wings, that would be a slot or slat. Another thing that impressed me, is the difference between subsonic and super sonic flow. They need COMPLETELY different designs and I assume, what you hear in a port, when it gets "noisy" is the turbulence of transonic flow, if it's approaching that speed or just turbulence, if not. As I understand it, good port flow, is <300 fpm and transonic is around 8-900 fpm. I'm not a porter and have never ran a flow bench, maybe Joe could speak more to that.

Interesting stuff.  Thanks!

Anybody know if Smokey used flow benches as we know them today, on a cylinder head measuring flow quantitatively?

pl

gt350hr

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2021, 11:49:09 AM »
   Ford had a flow bench in '62 or 63 IIRC.

Joey120373

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2021, 09:50:49 PM »
I still remember reading one of Smokey’s books back in high school. In that book, he talked about his his flow bench and how unique it was.it’s been way to many years ago now but what I do remember is that it was not a conventional “bench”, rather it was an engine block, modified to let him test the heads and intake while it was bolted to a real block.
At least that’s the way I remember it. But that was 30 years ago so.....

gt350hr

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Re: Best actual Ford cast 4V intake found
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2021, 02:57:41 PM »
 One of the first "out here" in Ca was Jerry Branch , Branch Flowmetrics. he was known mainly for motorcycle work but Ak Miller and other V8 guys used him. Larry Ofria at Valley Head Service was also one the early guys to have one. I think Ford set him up with his.
  Randy