Author Topic: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE  (Read 2440 times)

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kcoffield

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Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« on: December 05, 2023, 04:19:37 PM »
I don’t post here much and am really more of a 335 series guy, but have always liked the FE too, and Jay’s/FEP adapter, so this project was sort of a natural for me. I’ve been messing with Inline Autolite Carbs for many years and have sort of become the defacto support for their parts and restoration; I know, but we all deserve to be good at something fellas  :). I also love all things motorsport and really enjoy design and fabrication.

Inline Carbs were sort of still-born but have become very collectable and have a small but passionate following. I especially like folks that actually run them. Problem is, there were virtually no intake manifolds publicly available that were made for them save the CrossBoss for the B302 and adapted Dough Nash injection intake for IR use on 335 series engines. So, since it’s the intersection of many of my skills and interests, I’ve been on a quest of sorts to make induction systems available for the various performance Ford engines of the period.

I like to make them appear like an OE or Day 2 Part, maybe something you could have bought in the over-the-counter program…..no too blingy, just clean and workmanlike.

I’m an admin at a home foundry forum so the video at the link below is geared more towards how the casting was made for that forum. I make’em one at a time fellas so not quite on pace with Jay, and they’re really for period correct type builds and theme cars as opposed to racing but like anything else, can made to be run pretty well in the right hands.

I’ll have another video of the completed ready to run system in the not too distant future.

https://youtu.be/IBB8O_uUtbs

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 04:22:59 PM by kcoffield »

482supersnake

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2023, 06:15:05 PM »
Very cool and awesome job. I've watched your stuff for a couple of years and I'm amazed at  your talent. It would be cool to see this converted to a crossram set-up. Maybe with some Hyabusa ITB's?
Also If you were too revise the top for a dual carb set-up like a tunnel wedge I bet there would be a ton of interest.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 06:24:40 PM by 482supersnake »

mbrunson427

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2023, 06:32:08 PM »
Wow! thats awesome
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2023, 08:25:07 PM »
Great project. Just the other day I spotted an NOS inline carb next to an NOS Cross Boss at the Columbus Swap. My immediate thought was; what a shame, It'll never see a drop of fuel. Well, never say never! You have formidable skills and you've given the FE world another induction option. I'll be tuning into the 2nd installment of the video to track your progress. Well done and thanks!

6667fan

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2023, 08:57:10 PM »
Quite cool. What is the combined cfm?
JB


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kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2023, 09:25:30 PM »
.....It would be cool to see this converted to a crossram set-up. Maybe with some Hyabusa ITB's?

Well I already have a set of IR Inline manifolds modeled up for Jay's adapter.


Also If you were too revise the top for a dual carb set-up like a tunnel wedge I bet there would be a ton of interest.

I have a number of 351c guys chomping at the bit for a tunnel wedge....it will happen!

Best,
Kelly

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 09:26:43 PM »
Quite cool. What is the combined cfm?

Haven't had the intake and adapter on the flow bench yet..........

Best,
Kelly

Mark Bliss

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 09:31:14 PM »
I totally dig it. Functionally it may never approach a reasonable "performance for the dollar threshold", but...

Visual impact score-12/10! Out of the park!

482supersnake

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 10:58:42 PM »
.....It would be cool to see this converted to a crossram set-up. Maybe with some Hyabusa ITB's?

Well I already have a set of IR Inline manifolds modeled up for Jay's adapter.


Also If you were too revise the top for a dual carb set-up like a tunnel wedge I bet there would be a ton of interest.

I have a number of 351c guys chomping at the bit for a tunnel wedge....it will happen!

I have a buddy who would buy the 2x4 for a boss 302.

Best,
Kelly

Jb427

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2023, 09:48:22 AM »
People over here in Australia would go nuts for a tunnel wedge for a cleveland you could fit that under the hood of our falcons with out cutting any holes

I have watched your builds keep it up Great Work
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 09:50:39 AM by Jb427 »

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2023, 10:08:33 AM »
People over here in Australia would go nuts for a tunnel wedge for a cleveland you could fit that under the hood of our falcons with out cutting any holes I have watched your builds keep it up Great Work

Would need to be what we yanks would recognize as the 2V port size and position for Aussie 302c heads.....correct?

Best,
Kelly

Jb427

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2023, 11:16:16 AM »
That would be the problem for Australian market 2v 4v closed chamber and chi 3v's are all very popular here

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2023, 11:37:25 AM »
That would be the problem for Australian market 2v 4v closed chamber and chi 3v's are all very popular here

It's not a problem for 2v ports, it just requires some more modeling and programming. The CHI 3v are a different matter. If it was just a diffrent size port it's a similar task to the 2v version, but the face of the CHI 3v head is not in the same position as OE and every other 335 series manufacturer's heads. Consequently, that's why OE intakes wont fit CHI 3v heads because the gasket surface and bolt holes are all in different locations. Not sure but I presume that is still the case because the reason for this was to accomodate a higher than OE intake port (roof) position.

It was years ago, and before (the first?) ownership change I believe, but I had a customer that wanted an intake for his CHI 3v heads. I quickly figured out that something was off with the dimensions and when I contacted them to make sure I understood the source of the differences, they were not only unhelpful, they were the biggest jerks on Earth to me. I told the customer sorry/no, and to this day, even though I could make such an intake if I wanted to, I won't.

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 11:40:34 AM by kcoffield »

Jb427

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2023, 12:48:28 PM »
That would be the problem for Australian market 2v 4v closed chamber and chi 3v's are all very popular here

It's not a problem for 2v ports, it just requires some more modeling and programming. The CHI 3v are a different matter. If it was just a diffrent size port it's a similar task to the 2v version, but the face of the CHI 3v head is not in the same position as OE and every other 335 series manufacturer's heads. Consequently, that's why OE intakes wont fit CHI 3v heads because the gasket surface and bolt holes are all in different locations. Not sure but I presume that is still the case because the reason for this was to accomodate a higher than OE intake port (roof) position.

It was years ago, and before (the first?) ownership change I believe, but I had a customer that wanted an intake for his CHI 3v heads. I quickly figured out that something was off with the dimensions and when I contacted them to make sure I understood the source of the differences, they were not only unhelpful, they were the biggest jerks on Earth to me. I told the customer sorry/no, and to this day, even though I could make such an intake if I wanted to, I won't.

Best,
Kelly

Sorry to hear that some people are jerks. Just having the option of a tunnel wedge for a cleveland head would be very cool

427Fastback

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2023, 03:25:59 PM »
Kelly...I find it interesting that this showed up as I was looking at your stuff last week.I watched your video last night I commend you on your work. I like out of the box thinking..I do have one of Jays adapter's on my 427 and I am wondering if you have any carbs...Thanks....Cory
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kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2023, 03:34:20 PM »
..........I do have one of Jays adapter's on my 427 and I am wondering if you have any carbs...Thanks....Cory

If you mean Autolite Inline Carbs, yes I do. You can contact me at kcoffield@inlinecarb.com if that's something that interests you.

Best,
Kelly

427Fastback

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2023, 04:23:37 PM »
Thank you....I will contact you direct. I have some questions....Cory
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FrozenMerc

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2023, 01:41:22 PM »
Very Cool Kelly. 

I have been watching your videos for some time.  I am very impressed with your pattern and mold making skills. 

If you ever run short of projects, I have a MEL 6-71 Blower intake manifold I need to get cast.  Another one of those unloved Ford engines...

I will glady send CAD and cash your way. 


pbf777

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2023, 02:09:42 PM »
I have a MEL 6-71 Blower intake manifold I need to get cast.


     If you ever manage to get any of these made-up, contact me as I'd be interested in one!   ;D

     Scott.

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2023, 06:56:39 PM »
.....If you ever run short of projects, I have a MEL 6-71 Blower intake manifold I need to get cast.  Another one of those unloved Ford engines...

It sure is a nice looking model you have there. Is that a 3D print? Right when I was about to say I'd never make another, Scott chimed in. I am pretty stacked up right now, but as my mind wanders.........

Did you do the CAD work and can you easily manipulate the model?
Do you have the volume of the casting from the CAD model?
And what is the approximate dimension in the picture below?

As an aside, there is always sand printing. Although it is a very practical way of putting metal where you want it, the castings can tend to be a bit crude cosmetically

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 07:01:13 PM by kcoffield »

FrozenMerc

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2023, 03:33:04 PM »
Kelly,
   I did do the CAD work, and I can easily manipulate the model. The model in the picture is actually a CNC machining out of nylon, about 5 pieces and glued together.  That route was just as cost effective as a 3D print.  I will get the dimensions and volume when I get home later.  I found a company that can 3D print sand molds for a "reasonable" amount.  I just haven't had the time to talk to a local foundry to see if they would be willing to pour with a 3D printed mold. 

I went into this wanting to make one for my self as the old Weiand intake that I also have are race only pieces and not street friendly.  As pbf777 indicated, there is probably a total available market for about 5 or 6 of them. 

pbf777

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2023, 06:10:47 PM »
..............., there is probably a total available market for about 5 or 6 of them.


     And as a MEL guy, and much as it hurts my feelings to say it: This is even probably optimistic!    :-\ :(

     B.T.W.,  I also have one of the Weiand LM671's, but other than the 'minor' issue of the distributor doesn't fit in the O.E.M.'s standard location with it's installation, what other concerns might you have for it being not "street friendly"?   ???

     Scott.

FrozenMerc

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2023, 08:05:06 PM »
The distributor is definitely the biggest issue.  No provision for a thermostat (easily solved) and very small water passages.  I also don't like the large open plenum.  That results in very short intake runners that would likely cause problems, especially lower in the RPM range where a street car spends most of its time. 

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2023, 11:04:56 AM »
Merc, the short answer is I’m not in a position to take it on at this time. The longer answer for other’s curiosity……

…..I did do the CAD work, and I can easily manipulate the model. The model in the picture is actually a CNC machining out of nylon, about 5 pieces and glued together.  That route was just as cost effective as a 3D print.

Those are all the steps I would use to produce the polystyrene pattern. You represent a unique subset of people that make casting inquiries of me being you not only have a solid model, it has been used and presumedly produced a gcode file to cut the pieces. Most people that approach me do so with a loose description or a “looks like” picture. The reverse engineering of all the dimensional and feature data for a new engine family is a big effort that is rarely done accurately enough by the uninitiated. I’ve learned some hard lessons relying on data provided by others. You on the other hand have design validation.

……I will get the dimensions and volume when I get home later.  I found a company that can 3D print sand molds for a "reasonable" amount.  I just haven't had the time to talk to a local foundry to see if they would be willing to pour with a 3D printed mold.


The reason I asked for that dimension is I suspect it’s too large for my present casting flask (<16” diameter), so even if I was inclined to cast it, I’d have to make a larger molding rig, which although not out of the question, I wouldn’t be inclined to do so at this time. I also think it becomes just a little too large for me to machine because of available height under quill with the fixture on my mill. I asked for volume to estimate casting weight. Blower intakes get a bit chunky. Right now I can pour <60lbs include sprue/gating…….I suspect this part is still well within reach of that.

……I went into this wanting to make one for my self as the old Weiand intake that I also have are race only pieces and not street friendly.  As pbf777 indicated, there is probably a total available market for about 5 or 6 of them.

You mentioned sand prints. I suspect you already know all I’m about to say, but for those considering things like this, there should be no reason to source the casting separately. Not sure who Jay uses but Hoosier pattern for instance will deliver you a heat-treated casting from your solid model. Last I checked, they had one-time charges for CAD related mold mods of $750-$1000, and foundry charges of $750. Then you pay for the (each) mold by the cubic inch, which for parts like this could be in $1500-$2500 range.
With the quality of your model, you may do better on the CAD charge and if you were to procure multiples, the economics improve considerably, but at the end of the day, you’ll get a raw casting, and I mean raw.

Attached is a photo of an example an acquaintance did with them within the last year. He did a ton of finish work on the exterior of the casting. Though it isn’t terrible, neither I nor any of my typical customers would ever except it as delivered, and spending days with burrs and cartridge roles isn’t on my bucket list.

My casting process yields far better fit and finish, comparable or better to quality aftermarket castings. Other than light media blast, the casting pictured in my original post is as it came out of the mold. Although I do charge, I do this as a hobby, but mostly because I enjoy engineering the turn key induction system because it’s fun, interesting, and keeps me current by exercising many disciplines, and I meet some great people. Repetition becomes work and I can assure you, I didn’t retire to become a short run foundry. Even if you were to get one from me, you’d never get five.

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 10, 2023, 11:07:25 AM by kcoffield »

CDXXVII

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2023, 08:31:54 PM »
I watched the great video in post #1. Is there another video that goes into detail about the sand compaction?
I understand that it is vibrated but it seems as though the pour displacing the foam around the intake runners would disturb the 'column' of sand inside the runner.

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2023, 08:10:27 AM »
I watched the great video in post #1. Is there another video that goes into detail about the sand compaction? I understand that it is vibrated but it seems as though the pour displacing the foam around the intake runners would disturb the 'column' of sand inside the runner.

That is pretty much everyone's initial thought, including some experienced foundrymen.

The best way I can describe it, is even though it is "unbound" dry sand, it isn't totally unbound. When it is vibrated, it compacts about 15% by volume. That causes all the sand granuals to nestle together and interlock due to the irregulaities in their shape. So mechanical interference and friction is the binding mechanism. If I mount an object on the end of a stick, and burry it in a bucket of sand, I can just grab the stick and pull it out. But if I vibrate the bucket after doing so, I can pick the entire 80lb bucket up by grabbing and lifting with only the stick.

You can think of the areas where sand enters and exits the runners as core prints. The runner sand in between is the core. As the metal advances, there is a thin layer of liquid then gas between the polystyrene pattern and molten metal front. The gas escapes into the mold as the metal advances evaporating and consuming the pattern, and the hydrostatic metal pressure exerted on the mold walls keeps the sand in place.

I make these videos to describe the resulting induction systems but also the casting process. I'm just about done with the induction system and that video and I posted here mainly for that but if you are interested in the casting process, attached is a picture of automotive water neck that got me started with lost foam casting 7 years ago, and below is a link to a thread about them. The post that link takes you directly to has many links to processsteps and the equipment I've built and use to perform them. You'll have to join the forum to see full sized pictures. Have a happy read.

http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/automotive-water-neck.90/page-2#post-45738

.....and here's a 20 second video showing how the sand is fluidized, moves, and packs under vibration.

https://youtu.be/cghkvqN99r0

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 09:18:21 AM by kcoffield »

pbf777

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2023, 01:36:49 PM »
I also don't like the large open plenum.  That results in very short intake runners that would likely cause problems, especially lower in the RPM range where a street car spends most of its time. 

    I understand your concern for the short inlet runner, but as simply stated: "it's a blower intake"; and since the typical Rootes style blower is pretty much, at any R.P.M., participating in the effects of air and fuel (particularly if the fuel is entering above the blower) motion that although some runner length could be considered as having an advantageous purpose, in the end it often just over complicates matters, utilizes otherwise valuable area, and in example if one understands that often the discharge from the blower proves unequal in density particularly in length, that a more generous plenum below providing a chance for the volume of atmosphere to equalize somewhat lends for better distribution cylinder to cylinder.   :)

    Although this may be a bit of apples to oranges in comparison, but my point (with minimal effort on my part  ::)) is that this is a forced induction manifold from a major O.E.M. for an obviously "street" application vehicle:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234670445290?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=AfmBOorSkWh1aWq_M9DSCL9C20i_JTXjXCFvnzb7VSpwbtJpMhBWgM2NlJ0

    Of course, the really bad thing about have all that plenum area under the blower & carburetors is that if (when) a backfire takes place it sure can exacerbate the problem!   :o

    Scott.

    P.S. And I apologize if I've strayed from the intent of this thread and the fine workmanship execution of Mr. Kcoffield; but someone said M.E.L., and I got all excited!   ::)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 01:42:01 PM by pbf777 »

FrozenMerc

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2023, 02:17:08 PM »
Kelly,
   Thanks for the reply.  I completely understand wanting to keep it your hobby and not turning it into a bigger thing.  I was working with Hoosier on the printed mold, and I will likely continue to do so.  I need to just finish this project up, but others seem to keep getting in the way.

Keep up the good work.

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2023, 07:47:05 PM »
Got this one finished up.

Here's video and a couple of pics.

https://youtu.be/sHzYRwFfSu4?si=UuikMMuNhHWLfxRX

Take care,
Kelly

Mark Bliss

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2023, 10:01:29 PM »
I have to admit, that is one of the coolest looking FE induction systems ever IMO!

To be clear, is the base adapter proprietary? Or is that some variant of the Cleveland adapter?

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2023, 10:07:39 PM »
I have to admit, that is one of the coolest looking FE induction systems ever IMO!

Thanks Mark Much appreciated.

To be clear, is the base adapter proprietary? Or is that some variant of the Cleveland adapter?

The FE to 351c adapter is Jays (this forum owners) product. They can be purchased through FEPower.net. Other than the Inline carb, the rest of the hardware is by my hand.

Best,
Kelly

Jb427

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2023, 10:11:43 AM »
Kelly not sure if you said but was there a build this intake was made for? it would suite a hotrod/ratrod so well.

kcoffield

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Re: Inline Autolite Intake for an FE
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2023, 11:14:28 AM »
Kelly not sure if you said but was there a build this intake was made for? it would suite a hotrod/ratrod so well.

No specific build for this one. I made it as low profile as I thought I could without dorking up the performance but with the deck height of an FE, and the positioning required to align a 351c intake properly on your adapter, it is pretty tall.......likely too tall for OE hood height of most street cars, so would require a scoop. Of course as you mention, moot point for an open engine compartment car.

Though my SPF GT40 MkII should have one, I don't own an FE car at the moment. It will be for sale in the near future. I'm onto with my next project.

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: December 14, 2023, 11:20:27 AM by kcoffield »