Keep the shorty headers, or move to FPA Tri-Y on my 428?

[drdano]

My 428 in my 62 Galaxie is currently set up with a set of shorty Sanderson tube headers.  They are decent, but not awesome.  The passenger side is impossible to remove without pulling the engine or the bellhousing rearward....really a crummy deal. 

What gains, if any, would I expect if I move to a set of FPA Tri-Y's?  Jay's 428CJ test mule has some good Tri-Y data, but I don't have a shorty tube header to compare to, unless someone can suggest one of the other headers in the chapter as probably being what the shorty Sandersons flow.

Motor details:

428 +0.030
10:1 Static comp.ratio
C4AE-G heads with no chamber mods
Duraspark red connector ignition / Faron built duraspark dizzy / blaster 2 coil / 8mm wires / Autolite 45's .040 gap
Hyd. Roller 242@50 / .633 lift @ valve 110ICL installed at 104.
4.11 posi / 26" tall tire / TKO600 / 4200lb space wagon

Thanks all.

[steinauge]

I have no experience with tri Y headers on an Fe but I can tell you that a good long tube header like   Hooker will produce more power and torque than the shorties .

[fryedaddy]

the hooker supercomps should fit right on a galaxie and should be all you need on your setup,imo

[fallguy72]

Like my FPA tri y in the Fairlane

[Yellow Truck]

I don't claim any expertise, but I had to make the choice when I replaced the 410 with a 445 - the exhaust ports were too big for my old headers.

It was going to take too long to the the FPA Tri-Y headers, but I remember the guy at Sanderson insisting that they had done long and short tube comparisons and found no difference on the dyno. He also said they had beaten the crap out of a set with hammers, and tested them before and after, and found almost no difference.

I'll never be able to call him a liar since I won't be changing out the shorties.

[machoneman]

 
...but I remember the guy at Sanderson insisting that they had done long and short tube comparisons and found no difference on the dyno. He also said they had beaten the crap out of a set with hammers, and tested them before and after, and found almost no difference.

Paul, did the Sanderson guy say they ran mufflers while on the dyno? I ask since my reply is with even a well-thought out exhaust system with street mufflers, I doubt the header choices noted above would make much difference. Note too that the bigger improvement was dumping the OEM cast iron manifolds; once that was done and assuming a pretty good downstream set-up, the diff between shorties and long tube headers, again always capped up, is minimal IMO. This also assumes no dedicated drag race engine (with street mufflers, it wouldn't be) nor 6,500+ rpm hole shots! 

[Yellow Truck]

Bob - He didn't and I didn't press him. My mind was made up by the shipping dates. In the end it was a false choice because the Sanderson headers showed up on time but they hadn't put the dimples in the pipes at the flange to allow the bolts (or nuts if I had been using studs) to pass into the flange holes. Had to send them back for replacements. The FPA Tri-Y headers (assuming no mistakes) would have actually been faster.

[drdano]

Not sure why I never got notifications about this thread getting replies...but thank you all for the responses.

I'm not a big fan of the Sanderson shorties that are on there now.  The drivers side is a-ok.  The passenger side I loathe entirely.  I cannot remove the manifold without pulling everything behind the motor out, it just will not come out.  That totally sucks.  The guys at Sanderson told me to raise the front of the motor a few inches, but to do that means breaking the cooling system, which also is a pain and a huge mess everytime.  The collector dumps out right beside the starter, and can only be clocked one way so that you can actually get the bolts in there to the exhaust.  The passenger side also does not seal against the head well at all lasting maybe 250 miles before one tube starts to "tick" with a leak.  I'm tempted to have the face of the header flange machined flat to remove the raised bead of weld that Sandersons has in their "leak free" design and see if it helps having more than 1/8" of metal there to seal against the head.

This isn't a drag car, it's a hotrod that maybe goes to the strip once a year.  The exhaust is full 2.5" with a 3" x-pipe with straight-through steel-pack Porter mufflers way out back.  The rest of the exhaust is pretty free flowing I'd say, the only change I plan to make there is find something a bit quieter at idle/cruise that screams at full throttle.

Sounds like the consensus is that the Tri-Y's are nice, but maybe not going to out-flow what I have currently to justify the cost.  However, I could take the easy ($$$) way out, can the Sandersons and have Tri-Y's from FPA that *should* fit a-ok or at least be removable and have a better ball/socket connection to the exhaust.  Decisions decisions...hmm...

[shady]

I have Sandersons on my 62 & had no problems. Any headers are a pain in the ass to me, but I think all I did was remove the starter & motor mount frame bolts on both sides & jacked up the motor. Can't remember if they went up from the bottom or down from the top, most likely up from the bottom. Took a lot of jiggling. Trust me they will go in ( A lot of swearing helps). They are real close to the starter & I'm using the big coffee can original type starter. The problem with hooker super comps is you have to cut the inner fenders & they supposedly don't fit power steering.  If I had to do it over I probably would have ponied up for a set of factory cast ones.

[drdano]

Shady, interesting reading your experience with the Sandersons.  Are you Auto or manual trans?  If manual, which bellhousing are you using?  Are you using sealing gaskets on the flanges to the block, or using the 1/8" bead of high-temp silicone they say to use?

[shady]

c.o.m. auto with p.s., & just the bead of the copper silicone. When I put them on I didn't have exhaust mocked up for them yet. If I have to get them out I will no doubt have to pull the exhaust apart to get it out of the way. I also used only one of Sanderson' s offset collectors & a straight one from Summit. Again I don't know which side I used the straight one on. I did this on car ramps & it was a lot of in & out from under the car with just about every tool I own on the floor.

[My427stang]

My hunch is you'd see some gains, but if the current ones leak and re-leak, that'd be reason enough for me.  The power could have some peaks that are significant, having a better collector, and longer tubes that complement the build of the car, all should help a bit.  If you have a marginal exhaust, gains will likely be less though.

If the budget and time allows, I'd go FPA plain, fit them, and then have them coated.  I just did that on a 67 GTO and although it's twice the work, the end result is beautiful and you aren't afraid to shape a tube or two.

Another thing I would look close at is if the Sandersons match the C4 port, at least then you could explain why they keep losing gaskets. I haven't lost a header gasket in over 20 years on countless vehicles, assuming the port and gasket match and I tighten lubed bolts evenly and slowly.  Could you be using a truck/GT gasket on C4 ports and headers?  That'd do it too.  Another thing I do is road test, then immediately retighten hot. I usually get a quarter turn on every bolt.