Author Topic: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?  (Read 24904 times)

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My427stang

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2017, 05:54:16 PM »
No issues for me or my stuff, I am an active duty USAF officer, but I live 12 miles from the base or so,  the base got beat up badly.

Nobody hurt and non of our guys lost anything significant, so real lucky
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2017, 10:11:20 PM »
Great to hear.

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 04:28:36 PM »
Ad on Hemmings.

11,750.00  OBO
Two 427 ford fe crossbolt center oilers great for Thunderbolt or Shelby Cobra build.

https://www.hemmings.com/parts/item/Engine/other/Two-427-ford-fe-crossbolt-center-oilersgreat-for-Thunderbolt-or-Shelby-Cobra-build/12539.html

Item Description:

Category: Engine

SubCategory: other

1 engine stock removed from 1963 1/2 Galaxie over 40 yrs ago sitting in garage,stuck from sitting, needs to be taken apart and freshened up, has original carbs. The other one is disassembled down to the short block with heads removed,2 x4 intake, 30 over balanced, old hot rod engine that was in Porsche, that could not handle the brute force of these old fe dual quads and tore the car apart. no carbs needs to be taken apart and freshened up .Been sitting, in garage about same time. remote oil filter , new aftermarket vintage cal custon valve cover set, new dual point dist. 427 logo dual quad magnesium air filter asm original ? no part number , factory cast iron headers excellent shape, misc parts want to sell complete collection if possible $11.750.00 call 860-653-2438 lets make a deal

Applications:

1963 - 1963 Ford


TimeWarpF100

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2017, 06:33:15 PM »
I have a long story, but will keep it short unless you want the long.

I built a 427 Cobra years ago, and built a 500 HP at the crank 428 FE.
I've always wanted a 427 side oiler, but they were very expensive and getting at 600 HP, was even more expensive.
After winning a Best Of Class 62' to 67' trophy at a Good Guys Car Show at the Kansas Motor Speedway, two editors
wanted my Cobra in their magazines. At the time, we were still racing 360 winged dirt sprint cars and always had great sponsorships.
I wanted to try and build a side oiler mostly paid by sponsores, for advertising their company's products, and asked the editors to wait.

Well, my engine builder went bankrupted, and stole my money and all products. He also stole my "spirit for life".
Several years later I'm trying again. Because of my and my wifes bad health, and our loss of great surance, we can't afford much of anything today.
We had to sell the 428FE and Tremec tranny to help pay for my MedFlight jet flight to the Mayo Clinic. 6k then 16k of Clinic's 26 day stay.

We're trying to save and build/buy a engine again.

For years, I thought the only engine I can put in my Cobra, is a 427 side oiler or 428, but because of cost, a 460 may,....be acceptable.   :-[

I just can not, put a cheap purring kitty in a Cobra, but we want 600 HP/TQ this time. Being a sprint car racer, I need and can handle high power.
The problem is, reaching that goal is even more expensive than when we built the 428 years ago.

I prefer one of the newer aluminum or iron 427 side oiler blocks over a vintage, as their so much better built today, but cost is around 4k to 6k !

So, we are considering forgoing a FE, with a 385 series, 460/514ci.   
But, added to the cost, I'll need to trade or sell my new FE steel bellhousing, billet flywheel, clutch and, make/buy new headers for a 460. etc.

Buying 600 HP.....

427/482 side oiler is around $18,000 to $28,000

460/466ci 600 HP is around $8,995 (complete)

Ford 514  700 HP is around $12,600 (complete)

What's your thoughts, would you forgo a replica 427, 428 as original, or forget the nostalgia and go for the lower cost, larger HP/-TQ of a 514ci ?
Kevin

How about a new never fired 482? 14,500 pan to carbs. Only items not new is the Original 427 Balancer and the timing cover/pointer. And also the CJ Valve Covers. Even the tunnel wedge was NOS. 10.5 comp, CNC Edel heads, Tunnel wedge with Quick Fuel 750's, Genesis Block, all good parts. Solid Street Roller Cam. Machine work done by Barry R..  Might be just shy of 600 hp with current roller but 600 should not be a issue with larger cam. One thing you will not need to be worried about with this one is low end TORQUE>



« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 06:38:02 PM by TimeWarpF100 »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2017, 07:55:38 PM »
^best deal you'll get
Just do it.

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2017, 08:44:06 PM »
Drew, wish I could but $14,500 is too much for me.  Hell of a motor though.   :'(

What are the cam specs ?

Heads and valvetrain ?

Rotating assemby etc ?

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2017, 08:50:02 PM »
http://www.network54.com/Forum/75943/thread/1498597619/last-1498597619/View+thread

We spoke on the phone and he and the engine are great, a little on on compression. Just too high of cost, again......

scott foxwell

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2017, 07:58:41 AM »
Haven't read the entire thread and I'm sure it's been mentioned but a big ci Windsor would get you your 600hp goal real easy on pump gas with hyd roller. Since you're a racer I can guarantee that you will not be happy with a 385 series in your Cobra.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 08:01:48 AM by scott foxwell »

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2017, 08:32:17 AM »
Hi Scott, although the 351 based engine is powerful, I need a big block. If I had a replica version of the early years of the Cobra, I would like a 351/427cid small block, mines the 66 427 body style.

Why wouldn't I be happy with a  385 series 460/545 cid 600 to 700 HP ?

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2017, 10:35:17 AM »
Ok, if you guys like to "Bench Race" like I do, lets figure out my wants, needs and budjet for my 427 Cobra.
Different combinations to best suit a patcular engine.

What to do about blocks, heads, valvetrains, rotating assembly's, products, manufactures, specs and where the best prices can be found.

I'd much rather,....have a powerhouse low rpm torque monster FE, for street fun, yet high rpm HP for some, track racing.
Would like to rev over 6,000 rpm. With the light weight Cobra, it suprised me just how fast the rpm's come up to 5,000 (+)
A lot of it is setting up the suspention for traction. I used a set of electronic scales to get all four corners equal in weight and almost 50/50 front to back, even with a hipo weight FE. With street slicks it launches hard, yet not dumping the clutch and using 2nd gear.

Although I need a lot of power, to a point, I need some decent gas milage, I don't want a 8 mpg like I had with my Pro-Street Camaro either. lol

Being a sprint car racer, I need it to fricken rock & roll. I can't express this point enough,..ROCK & ROLL guys !  (like Van Halen) lol
To each it's own, but that's what a Cobra is all about. Hearing a smooth kitty purrrrr,.....in Cobra's I've seen is silly, plus using comfortable high back seats and stereo's ?   Come on ! Lol....

So to start off, let's talk about a block. 1st I'd like a side oiler, 2nd is a 428FE, third a 390, 4th is a 385/460.

Pro's & Con's- (I could talk all day on this point, but will get you thoughts)

FE-

PRO'S

Original to the later years of Cobra's.
Blocks look great.
Sound.
Praises from people. (yes, it matters, sorry)

CON'S-

COST !
If you want to change the intake, you must remove the heads. Pain in the ass !)

Other than that, can't think of more.

385 series-

PRO'S-

Huge power capable. 600 and even 700 HP/TQ is easy.

I'm excited about all the full range power of power of say a 460/545 (other cid's) and lower cost !)
The torque down low is incredable.

Low cost,.... even with steel crank, pistons and good aluminum heads.

I have a brand new steel scatter shield, bullet flywheel and two disk clutch.

CON'S-

Not original to the Cobra's.

Although from the charts reading the FE and 460 are equal measurments, except the 460 is 2 inchs longer, but that dooesn't matter.
I'm concernd about the 460 being too tall for under the hood. I'm getting mixed results from Cobra owners. I looked at some Cobras on youtube that have 460's, their hood scoup's are taller than most Cobra's.

I may,.....have to cut out the scoop and build/buy a taller one, do a bunch of body work on and under the hood, sand the hood and repaint the body color and the custom mixed white with added pearl paint of the stripes, from the nose of the body, the hood to the windshield. Not only a lot of time because of my bad health, and the expense.

Would need to sell the FE parts I have, for 460 parts. (shield, flywheel clutch) etc.

So is the lower cost and huge power worth all the time, money and work to the hood worth it ?
(If,....iit needs it)

With there was a plastic 460 engine to mock up the engine bay !














'


« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:41:02 AM by 427HISS »

thatdarncat

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2017, 11:21:54 AM »
They do make a plastic 460 for mock-up. I'll warn you, it isn't cheap. Link:

http://www.payr.com/Big-Block_c16.htm

Price through Summit is a little less.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:24:48 AM by thatdarncat »
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2017, 11:43:03 AM »
Lol,...if I were a hot rod builder, maybe,.?.....I'd spend 500 bucks on the block, plus the heads, valve covers,, dampner, fan, oil filter, carb, etc.....
Ya know, for all the hot rods, street rods, resto mods, daily drivers, movie cars  I'd be mocking up with 460's.  Then I may break even on the cost.   ;)

scott foxwell

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2017, 12:13:49 PM »
Hi Scott, although the 351 based engine is powerful, I need a big block. If I had a replica version of the early years of the Cobra, I would like a 351/427cid small block, mines the 66 427 body style.

Why wouldn't I be happy with a  385 series 460/545 cid 600 to 700 HP ?
Because they handle like crap and look like ass in a Cobra. Other than that, they're fine. :) (The looks part is just my never to be humble opinion ;) )
Seriously, though...if you're willing to stick a 460 in a Cobra, then there's no sense in the "big block" vs "small block" argument based on body style. Trust me, if Carol Shelby had a big inch Windsor in his day, the FE would have never been in a Cobra. They were ill handling and very hard to drive. Their only saving grace was one of the best braking performances on the track. Drag race to the corner, then hang on for dear life!
I don't know which replica you have but trust me, stuffing a 385 series in even the best ones isn't going to be fun to drive other than a straight line. Very few FE big block cars handle very well at all. About the best handling one I ever drove was the Arntz/Butler but it was far from a purist replica with the engine set back 6".
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:50:16 PM by scott foxwell »

427HISS

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Re: 600 HP FE $18k VS 600 HP 460/514 $13k ?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2017, 01:26:31 PM »
In this thread I won't get into what makes a Cobra and what doesn't, as that can go on & on & on. I just don't want a small block.
If I was going to road race mine quite a bit, I would have built it differently, with a tube chassis, high rpm small block, 4-speed and a IRS, but since I'm not, and wanted a tough strong driver for the street/strip, I'm happy with my car and they way I built it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:34:26 PM by 427HISS »