FE Edelbrock 60065 Aluminum Head Porting

[Thumperbird]

Good evening everyone,

Looking for some input on porting a set of Edelbrock heads.
I am a DIY guy as much as possible so other than sourcing a multi-angle valve job I would like to port and clean up the combustion chambers on 60065 heads myself.  Building a 445 stroker good for 500tq/hp.

I intend to do some unshrouding work around the valves and plugs, don't expect to run into too many issues there, I won't be going crazy, now the other side of the valves is a different story.

Does anyone have a cross section of an Edlebrock head so I can get a better idea of where and how large the water passages are?

I am mostly interested in straightening out the bottom of the port area on intake and exhaust sides near the valve to keep air coupled to the turn as much as possible.  The one side of the intake ports also look like an opportunity, quite a  zig zag on that, is there enough material to get into that side quite a bit and straigthen it out to open up to the valve?  And to a lesser extent of course port match to intake and exhaust. 

Any tips or guidance out there?  I had so much fun going at my block to clean it up and execute the minor oiling improvements I want to dig in on some aluminum!  By the way for what it matters, the mating intake is Edelbrock air gap dual quad with holleys and FTP headers.

Thank you all.

[scott foxwell]

Sounds like you know what you want to do, so have at it.
You have no business taking out enough material to get close to a water jacket. Leave that kind of material removal to the pros.
You will see 90% of your gains within about an inch and a half each side of the valve job.
Blend the cnc openings into the ports but don't make the ports any bigger. Obviolusly blend any casting flaws and irregularities but if you start removing any significant material without knowing what you;re doing, or a flow bwnch to check your work, you are working at your own risk and most assuredly the odds are not in your favor. Porting is not intuitive.
Blend the valve job into the bowl and focus on smooth, even transitions. A little work around the guide bosses doesn't hurt but don't get carried away. Mainly, make them all look the same.
I would radius the edges of the pocket around the spark plug and conservatively blend the machine work around the valve job into the chamber. Intake ports and bowls can be left with a burr finish. Ex ports and bowls can be smoothed out with some 80G. Don't need to "polish" anything. I even leave the intake side of the chamber burr finished on my port jobs but it's not necessary. Chamber can be finished with 60g...doesn't need to be smooth. A little texture helps build up a carbon layer...gives it something to stick to.
Valve job is most critical. I would use a basic 35/45/60 (and maybe 70 if it touches) on the intake and a 35/45/radiused ex valve job. Concentricity and equal depth from chamber to chamber is most important. Guide clearances should be checked as well. I hear these two things...valve job and guide clearances are always in need of attention with most Edelbrock heads. It wouldn't hurt to take a skim cut off the surface either, to make sure it's flat.
Honestly these heads should get your power number out of the box. Make them mechanically sound and ask someone about one of the popular shelf cams or spring for a custom. I would recommend someone but I've been told I can't because it sounds like advertizing. If you want more information, send me a message. I'm glad to help.

[plovett]

How're you going to get the Holleys on the Air Gap dual quad?  Spacers?  Just curious. 

paulie

[Thumperbird]

Scott,
Thank you for the info, very informative and helpful.  What about knocking down the floor a bit near the valves, seems very sharp and deep.  Mainly why I was hoping to come up with a cross section or similar as i can't gauge wall thickness easily in that area. 

Lykins has sourced a cam and rotating parts for me, great to work with, this is an area where I likely would not get it right the first time and I don't want to be in the motor very often at all.

Paulie,
Custom offset spacers, ~1" rise and run to get the spacing, nothing fancy, carbs will face forward, barely clearing plug wire boots.  How this behaves is a bit of an unknown, there are other spacers in the mix as well for nitrous, carb signal, and to get the clearance and set a hood scoop.  Like I said, I like rolling my own if I can.

Anyone have images of Edelbrock head work they have done or had done?  Other feedback?

Thanks all.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Only feedback I have is the carbs facing backwards most likely helps distribution and isn't JUST a clearance thing.  ie placing the primary 2 venturi in the center of the intake is a good thing.

EIther way, cool project, good luck.

[Thumperbird]

Drew,

Yes, good to know, thank you.  The spacer is of course running towards the center a bit. 
I will make sure I can go either way mechanically other than simple plumbing and linkage.

[CaptCobrajet]

The worst thing you could do to the port is grind the floor lower. 

[scott foxwell]

Set I did back in 2010. This really isn't much in the way of porting, more just a good clean up with a fresh valve job, which I never did get any pics of.
Do not grind the floor. CCJ is right. Blend the radius on the short turn and make it as smooth and uniform as you can without removing much material.

[Joe-JDC]

The worst thing you could do to the port is grind the floor lower.

X-2.   Joe-JDC

[Thumperbird]

Great stuff, thank you all!
Scott do you recall what kind of chamber volume you ended up with, looks like lots of material was removed.

Without giving up any secrets of course, can someone elaborate a bit on the physics behind the down side to removing some of that sharp bend in the port floor?  Is it just a volume thing or flow dynamics or ?   

Thanks again.

[Joe-JDC]

The air will take the shortest distance to the cylinder, and shear.  All the flow will go there, and will not increase with additional lift, but back up and lose flow.  That is the worst place in the port to remove material.  Joe-JDC

[Thumperbird]

Not trying to be a dink here, just want some more understanding.

Keeping in mind low end torque is king for my heavy car application:

If a straight pipe is best, and I think we can all agree it is for flow for any given pressure?
(maybe this is not true in the case of an engine given desireable effects from turbulence and scavenging or ?)
Why would any bend be desireable?  If there is no chance for shear isn't this the least obstructive?
I get that the port is an extension of the intake runner but is this a specific FE head thing?
Seems like a dual plane straight runner intake would be the best of both worlds.
Airfoils improve air speed but at the expense of pressure, is that the deal?

I know, probably all silly questions and thoughts for you guys.

Thanks.

[scott foxwell]

There are a lot of variables that go into "knowing" a port and where you can and can't remove material. Too many to put in a few simple paragraphs to answer your question. It's not intuitive, like I said earlier.
I've written about five different responses to this and they all just turn into long, drawn out explanations that end up explaining nothing.
I don't have an FE head in front of me right now so I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're saying about removing material from the floor. I'm going to look at this tomorrow and see if I can come up with something. It's not ALWAYS a bad thing to do and necessary in some cases but the bigger picture has to be seen.
The chambers in those heads...I don't know what they ended up at. The customer didn't want to surface the heads and I never measured them since they were what they were.

[blykins]

Not trying to be a dink here, just want some more understanding.

Keeping in mind low end torque is king for my heavy car application:

If a straight pipe is best, and I think we can all agree it is for flow for any given pressure?
(maybe this is not true in the case of an engine given desireable effects from turbulence and scavenging or ?)
Why would any bend be desireable?  If there is no chance for shear isn't this the least obstructive?
I get that the port is an extension of the intake runner but is this a specific FE head thing?
Seems like a dual plane straight runner intake would be the best of both worlds.
Airfoils improve air speed but at the expense of pressure, is that the deal?

I know, probably all silly questions and thoughts for you guys.

Thanks.

The air/fuel charge is coming through there at high velocity.  It has to change direction when it gets closer to the valve.   If the floor is laid down further, the turn is that much more abrupt, and the air/fuel charge will overshoot the valve because it can't make the turn as easily. 

Look at the first picture that Scott posted above and imagine moving the floor of that port down.  What's the air/fuel gonna do?  It's not gonna make the turn and hit the opposite wall in the bowl.

Also, the more meat you remove from the port, the more port volume you have.  Air/fuel moves through in waves or pulses.  You have to get that intake charge moving quickly and it takes a lot more effort to get a large volume to move. 

You ultimately want to aim for a small volume, high flowing port. 

[scott foxwell]

I'm going to take a shot at this. I think this is what you're referring to:



The short turn radius is probably the most critical part of the intake port. This is where we want the air to make a sharp turn. The air wants to go straight, but there is something called laminar airflow and if we can keep that short turn shaped correctly, we can get the air to follow it helping it make that turn. The distance form the deck to the tallest portion of that short turn tells us a lot. You've heard the term "raised runner" head...well, the benefit of that is it makes that short turn radius long and subtle. The less distance there is from the deck (actually, the valve job) to the high side of that short turn radius, the sharper the bend is and the less radius we have to use to make that turn. Factory heads, because of packaging, usually have fairly low port architecture which means a very low and abrupt short turn radius, or not much radius at all. The air can not follow that curve and becomes detached from that surface which causes turbulence and an actual blockage in the port. If you do lower the floor of the port, which I often do with certain heads, then you also have to re-shape that short turn radius by moving the apex back toward the port opening increasing that radius but this is a very critical shape. A matter of a few thousandths can make or break your flow numbers. It has to work in conjunction with the rest of the port architecture; it is not an isolated condition. You don't just arbitrarily start grinding on a part of the port that "looks" like it might need improvement. The FE port, even in the Edelbrock casting, is a fairly low port that doesn't have a lot of short turn radius to work with. I'm actually surprised at how nice the shape is for what there is to work with, even on my iron heads, but it could be a lot nicer. You really don't want to mess with that other than to smooth out the bowl area below the valve job and any roughness around the guide boss.
Hope that helps.