Author Topic: Stainless Steel Headers  (Read 8673 times)

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FElony

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2018, 09:26:16 PM »
Does anyone make custom headers for a 69 mustang out of stainless? I would like at least a 2" header. Right now I have Hooker 6114 that are Swain Tech coated. I think I am leaving power on the table with 1 3/4 headers. Ground clearance is a consideration. My 464 is making about 625 flywheel hp.

From a stop, can you spin your rear tires with a full throttle launch?



Sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2hCd3FOcrU

Well, I was going to say if so, then your traction is leaving power on the table, and the small amount you would pick up with bigger headers would only add to the problem. However, at 11.87, I don't think you are making anywhere near 625 horsepower. Was this number off a dyno with no front dress? What kind of headers on the dyno?

Engine Masters had an episode where they bashed the primary tubes on a dyno motor, and the decrease in diameter had little effect on power. I'm a little surprised that none of our builders here have piped up with an A<-->B comparison, 6114's against 6375's (BTW, I can't believe how much the cost of those has gone up. We are getting hosed here big time).

If you are looking to lower ET, See if you can put that puppy on a chassis dyno, because that's a better tell than an engine dyno.




That was the previous engine with 450 rwhp. This one has 625 FLYWHEEL hp. The idea for SS headers was not more power but less rust. Even though they are coated I think they are ugly.

Well, jeez, you might have mentioned the old engine, which has nothing to do with the one we are talking about.  ::) I return to my original question about tire slippage with the NEW one. You SAID you were concerned about leaving power on the table,  not anything about having pretty pipes. Since you are not making sense to me, I'm going to back out of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bXPNy1Yn4

sixty9cobra

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2018, 09:37:05 PM »
lol 2" pipes might make more power also. The dyno headers were 2" .
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 09:39:20 PM by sixty9cobra »

KMcCullah

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 11:53:24 AM »
With that many cubes of investment, why not have a three step header specd' out by the group here. And then built at a Ford friendly hotrod garage? They would finish out the badass package that you assembled. JMHO.
Kevin McCullah


sixty9cobra

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2018, 05:04:54 AM »
Is the Tri Y better for power than 4 equal length tubes?. That maight make more room in a Mustang engine bay.

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2018, 08:41:27 AM »
Dang Harry.   My wagon motor makes 625 hp at 6500 rpm.

Will bigger headers make better power?   Ya, likely.  Though if you look at my 2" headers, they are mashed 1/2 flat on the bottom(thus the need for wheelie bars), and it made no ill effect to the way the car runs.  Unless you set your chassis up to use all that power, then the fact you might loose some from not using 2" pipes will be a moot point.

My favorite saying:  "Warren Johnson may see a difference..."   Meaning, on a Pro stock dyno, you may see an increase in power if you split hairs really, really small, but beyond that will you see an actual ET improvement after the increase(and the money outlay).

Two short stories: 
Friend built a set of headers for a '65 Fairlaine.  Billy Glidden built the motor for the car and wanted the headers to dyno the motor.  Billy gave my friend grief over a few tubes and their lengths and the loss of power(blah, blah, blah).   Well, in this car there is only so much room for headers.  Will the car really see that 5 hp difference in ET?  Likely not. But Billy looks at things like that and wants the most out of any motor combination.

Another friend with 454 Windsor motor in a '75 F100.   Spent the money to have 2" headers built with 3" pipes out the back.  Was suppose to be all that for the 600 hp he makes.  Truck did not pick up ANYTHING in ET over the generic 1 7/8" headers.  Lots of money spent, for no gain.

Just throwing this out there for food for thought from my experiences.  I get the want for Stainless so you don't have rust issues.  Size wise?  Don't sweat that as much.

My .02
Larry

sixty9cobra

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2018, 09:26:45 AM »
I was just looking for the best bang for the buck. I have Swain Tech coated headers and any thing that gets on then stains them. I had Jet hot and that after a few yrs crackled and rusted.  I realize a few dents and dings and even smashing them with a sledge like Hot rod did doesn't mean squat. But if I was going to spend 2-3k on custom headers why not get the best you can? I did not know stainless tri ys were available. So something good became of this post. I might have upset Felony though.

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2018, 10:11:41 AM »
I might have upset Felony though.

And your point being??    :o

I do realize if you are spending the money, go big or go home.  But if you can find over the counter stainless 1 7/8 or something for considerably cheaper then it is something to ponder.

I had my Crites headers coated locally.  Ya, they are stained horribly except where I grind the crap off when I bang them on the ground LOL!! 
Larry

FElony

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2018, 12:34:29 PM »
I might have upset Felony though.

And your point being?? Oh wait, that's been said already.

Seriously, I was really looking to help out. Your first post made it sound like you were wanting to go quicker. I waited for you to qualify the traction situation while I dug through Motor Trend's website to fish out the EM header diameter and coating test, which was on an engine in your power level.

You threw me a curve with the vid of an engine that has nothing to do with the performance at hand. Then your "Swain Coated" headers suddenly became rusted spaghetti instead of a cork in the flow. You want ground clearance from a big tube race header. On a budget. I had to throw in the towel. You beat my analytical side.

Missing information: Is this now a strip-only car? Roll bar/cage? Full exhaust system? Size? Do you NEED the extra bit of power to hit an index or something? If not, consider just removing the 6114's, have them blasted, and look at some of the DIY spray coatings currently available. A switch from an OEM fan to an electric will yield as much or more than a header change. EM has that video, too, in the same location.

cjshaker

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2018, 02:25:25 PM »
I get the whole 'want it to look good' thing. It's your car, your baby, so if you want the best stainless headers (while looking for the best bang for the buck), don't let anybody talk you out of it. I hate the look of rusted headers, but that's just me. It doesn't bother me a bit to see them on another persons car, or a drag car, it's just something that would grate on me, on my own car, every time I opened the hood. I know it's nit-picky and a money drain, but hey, it's my car. You have a really nice car, I don't blame you for wanting it to look as good as you can get it.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 03:25:31 PM »
I totally agree on good looking headers.  I hate the rusty, oil coated headers on the wagon, but not many people see them.  The pickup has a fresh set of coated Hookers on it so we'll see how long it takes to mess them up.  If these old motors didn't leak like a siv, then maybe they would stay nicer, longer.
Larry

sixty9cobra

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2018, 03:42:45 PM »
I might have upset Felony though.

And your point being?? Oh wait, that's been said already.

Seriously, I was really looking to help out. Your first post made it sound like you were wanting to go quicker. I waited for you to qualify the traction situation while I dug through Motor Trend's website to fish out the EM header diameter and coating test, which was on an engine in your power level.

You threw me a curve with the vid of an engine that has nothing to do with the performance at hand. Then your "Swain Coated" headers suddenly became rusted spaghetti instead of a cork in the flow. You want ground clearance from a big tube race header. On a budget. I had to throw in the towel. You beat my analytical side.

Missing information: Is this now a strip-only car? Roll bar/cage? Full exhaust system? Size? Do you NEED the extra bit of power to hit an index or something? If not, consider just removing the 6114's, have them blasted, and look at some of the DIY spray coatings currently available. A switch from an OEM fan to an electric will yield as much or more than a header change. EM has that video, too, in the same location.



Felony
   My apologies I thought you were being a wiseguy asking me if I can spin my tires by punching it. That is why I posted the video. That motor spit a rod bearing at the 2017 FE Reunion. This motor was finished in February this year. I had a heart attack in March and triple bypass in April. So that is the last video I have of the car.

This is a street car 3500lbs with out my butt in it. No roll bar, full 3" Magnaflow exhaust, full interior, stereo etc. I have had this car for 45 years and paid 400 dollars for it. I have been taking it up a level when I can.  I have dual electric fans most of the goodies for saving power.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 03:55:00 PM by sixty9cobra »

gt350hr

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2018, 04:05:12 PM »
 With traction , I assure you that you will need a roll bar with that kind of power if you do go tot the track. Nice work beautiful car. "If" you are only concerned with street performance 1-7/8ths tubes are still OK. Just this old guys opinion.

sixty9cobra

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2018, 04:10:21 PM »
I missed something where did 1 7/8s headers come from?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 04:12:01 PM by sixty9cobra »

66FAIRLANE

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2018, 05:37:13 PM »
Interesting experiences with the coatings. Mine are Jet Hot coated & I am just about to have them re-done after 20 years. They looked pristine for well over 10 of those years and there is still no cracking or rust. I hear stories that 'this coating is better than that one' & 'that coating is no good'. I suppose like a lot of things it depends on how well the process was done by the operator. But I could not be happier with the finish & longevity of my Jet Hot coating. I certainly never want to make them again.

FElony

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Re: Stainless Steel Headers
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2018, 07:01:47 PM »
I might have upset Felony though.

And your point being?? Oh wait, that's been said already.

Seriously, I was really looking to help out. Your first post made it sound like you were wanting to go quicker. I waited for you to qualify the traction situation while I dug through Motor Trend's website to fish out the EM header diameter and coating test, which was on an engine in your power level.

You threw me a curve with the vid of an engine that has nothing to do with the performance at hand. Then your "Swain Coated" headers suddenly became rusted spaghetti instead of a cork in the flow. You want ground clearance from a big tube race header. On a budget. I had to throw in the towel. You beat my analytical side.

Missing information: Is this now a strip-only car? Roll bar/cage? Full exhaust system? Size? Do you NEED the extra bit of power to hit an index or something? If not, consider just removing the 6114's, have them blasted, and look at some of the DIY spray coatings currently available. A switch from an OEM fan to an electric will yield as much or more than a header change. EM has that video, too, in the same location.

Felony
   My apologies I thought you were being a wiseguy


Oh my goodness gracious! I can't fathom how anyone in this forum could possibly think that little old me could or would be a wiseguy about anything at all.  ::)  I am crestfallen. Dejected. And I suddenly lack gastrointestinal fortitude.   :-[

Understandable, really. The downside of being FElonious is that nobody takes anything I say seriously. And, many/most/butnotall of my own questions never get answered. A little better lately. Must be pity.

I agree headers should look good. Personally, not fan of stainless/shiny. But, as said, it's your car.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+header+coating

https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/all_headers/parts/6114-3HKR