FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: comet2 on September 05, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
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hi guys, been a long time since i last posted ! i have maybe a dumb question! on my 390 torino it had a history of running hot on 85and up days so installed a stewart emp thermostat with bypass holes i put the vacuum adv on full vac to cleanup idle problem solved ran best it has ever ran! then i installed felony heads car still runs great noticeable power increase! but now runs to cool it will warm to normal temp and stay there while driving 30 mph stop and go stuff but any stretch without stopping it ends up cold idles like its cold stinks like bus garage! apparently people behind me dont like it! it has been a cold wet summer here in wny so i am relutant to change my set up for fear of overheating in warm weather did the aluminum heads really suck this much heat out of the engine?
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What temp is the thermostat opening? Can it be so simple (hopefully this easy) that you have a 160 deg thermostat and need a 180?
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You can always block a small portion of the radiator with cardboard and try it.If that cures your problem you will know where to go.
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thanks guys , the stat is a 180 that i drilled two.078 holes i tested it prior to installing. the stewart emps were 180 and 195 and have 3 .188 holes drilled in them worked great iron heads 88 degrees outside not good at 67 degrees!
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i was thinking about blocking rad . maybe i can go back to a normal stat now i just cant wrap my brain around the heads dispersing that much heat! thanks again
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Do you have a temp gauge with temperature markings? If you don't, then you're just guessing at the temp. Otherwise it sounds like you may just need to adjust your choke setting. Is it electric or thermally operated? If thermal, make sure the tube is actually good and drawing heat from its source. If electric, make sure it's not losing power somehow while driving. If it actually is running too cool, I'd step up to a higher thermostat, or one like you have only without drilling the holes. I would not block off your radiator because when you NEED that cooling, it won't be there.
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thanks guys , the stat is a 180 that i drilled two.078 holes i tested it prior to installing. the stewart emps were 180 and 195 and have 3 .188 holes drilled in them worked great iron heads 88 degrees outside not good at 67 degrees!
Why are you drilling holes in your thermostats?
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I always drill one small hole in my thermostat and align it so it's at the top. Now that I think about it, I think some thermostats come with a hole already there. I think it is supposed to help prevent an air pocket at the thermostat which could prevent the thermostat from opening. Anyway, it's never once caused any problems for me.
On the other hand a too cool thermostat is not a good idea, in my opinion. A long time ago I was so afraid of detonation with my high compression engine that I thought I needed a 160 degree thermostat. I have a decent cooling system so I was driving around with the engine too cool 90% of the time. I always ended up with condensation in the oil. It was hard to get the engine hot enough to evaporate all the moisture, most of the time.
I finally switched to a 180 degree thermostat and have never had a problem since then.
180 degrees is the sweet spot for 99% of old school hot rod engines, in my opinion. I know new cars run much hotter than that, but it hurts the power on our old school engines. Okay, maybe 180-190 is okay.
paulie
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I always drill a small hole in mine too. They all have a bleed hole for air, but they're so darn small that they take forever, if they bleed at all. But one small hole is sufficient. 3 is overkill and probably hurts the correct function of the thermostat.
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Yeah, three holes is too much. I also drill a small hole in mine ('70 351W 'Stang) for easy filling w/o trapping air. But, I'd do what was mentioned before and slap in a stock 180 'stat and give it a go. Noted too is that many modern 'stats do have a hole,many covered by what I'll call a flapper valve. The cardboard trick will also work to show you what may be wrong.
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I agree, I drill one 1/8 hole and glue the stat in to make sure it stays at 12:00 to allow any trapped air/steam to pass quickly. I have tried those Stewart stats and although they are high quality, they flow a ton of water at idle. I'd almost bank on it being the stat
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I drill a series of small holes all the way around the thermostat so I don't need to clock it. I don't mind having a bit of bypass when the thermostat is closed, but it is not my daily driver. Over cooling is not an issue in the desert!
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thanks guys got a new 195 starts to open at 195 drilled 1 .062 hole in it installed had to help brother do water pump on 3.5 doch taurus under timingchain cover really !!!! hope my ranger lasts 179000 it wont be mine then! well see what happens sunday!
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ok, ran new thermostat today. little bit better but not what it should be. i think im gonna back the vacuum advance out 12+18+34 at idle down to 9+18+34 total i did find i am somewhat close on timing though i needed gas asap had 10 bucks so put 87 octane in instead of 91 from 25mph roll 2nd gear acceleration gave me preignition 3! rocks in a can! outsandingi never thought this engine could do that ! been running 22 years and never could get it to ping on 89-93 octane sunoco at least i know my timing curve is close to optimum!!!
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I drill 2~4 holes in the perimeter of any thermostat I use - 4 .125 holes are not going to pass so much water than the engine will run too cool. Look at the size of the bypass hose on a SBF, that never closes - unlike a 351C.
If you hear it rattling, it was detonating well before it reached your ears. Best keep a close eye on the plugs, not a close ear.
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ok, ran new thermostat today. little bit better but not what it should be. i think im gonna back the vacuum advance out 12+18+34 at idle down to 9+18+34 total i did find i am somewhat close on timing though i needed gas asap had 10 bucks so put 87 octane in instead of 91 from 25mph roll 2nd gear acceleration gave me preignition 3! rocks in a can! outsandingi never thought this engine could do that ! been running 22 years and never could get it to ping on 89-93 octane sunoco at least i know my timing curve is close to optimum!!!
Keep in mind that the vac. advance only kicks in on closed or closing throttle...and never has, unless the dashpot's lever is sticky, caused detonation. Easy to check: take the pot off and work the lever by hand. Be sure to the point plate (point equipped or not) moves smoothly by hand w/the dashpot off.
I'd burn off the low octane gas b/4 doing any timing changes. Then, with your normal higher octane fuel, I'd drop your 12 initial down to 10 and see what happens.
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thanks again guys! i sure wont put 87 in anymore but it was an emergency! what was weird was air fuel at idle went up from 13.5 13.7 to 14.5 or more. i kinda wrote my timing stupid my initial timing is 18 with 34total vacuum gives another 12 at idle gets vacuum to 15-16hg carb is a 3310 cheapie no dash pot like the 600 oem carb but what you were saying about it sticking: i was thinkin about were the vacuum pod letting off and mech timing going up may have crossed early or high and caused pinging ? maybe? but im not gonna do that again i was showin my brother how his 351c 4v is inferior at layin rubber from 10 mph than my boat anchor \ dumptruck motor. my real concern was the engine gettin cold on the open road. imean its acually running like 3mins after starting it no temp gauge needed it is cold and spittin the rad is luke warm drive at 30 or 40 for a while it warms back up never had any problem on 80 or 90 degree days just on 60 to 70 degree days when you want to take a cruise ! could it be timing 46 all in or do aluminum heads lose that much heat?
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thanks again guys! i sure wont put 87 in anymore but it was an emergency! what was weird was air fuel at idle went up from 13.5 13.7 to 14.5 or more. i kinda wrote my timing stupid my initial timing is 18 with 34total.
-34 is about right. Playing in up or down 2 degrees (32/36) for a test on your better gas may be wise.
vacuum gives another 12 at idle gets vacuum to 15-16hg carb is a 3310 cheapie no dash pot like the 600 oem carb.
-where is your vacuum line, at the carb, to the distributor's dashpot, hooked up? It should be plugged into a steel nipple on the side of the primary metering block. That site gives zero vacuum at idle and only activates the dashpot on deceleration and steady cruise speeds. If the line is hooked to a all-the-time vacuum source then yes, the vacuum advance is working at idle.....meaning you may have way too much total advance at idle.
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/rodbrady/media/cGF0aDoxOTY5IE11c3RhbmcgQ291cGUvMDU4NkRDQTEtMDMwMy00MkI1LTlGQkEtRTdGREQzQTU4RkEwX3pwc2IwdXBhMnFzLmpwZw==/?ref=
but what you were saying about it sticking:
-the dashpot's lever (going inside the distributor) and hooked on a point plate stud, actually moves the point plate (points or electronic module) to supply vacuum advance or not. That plates must move smoothly back and forth for the vacuum advance to work correctly. You can take off the dashpot and move the plate by hand to ensure it's working correctly.
https://www.hometownbuick.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/1955-buick-vacuum-advance-mechanism.jpg
i was thinkin about were the vacuum pod letting off and mech timing going up may have crossed early or high and caused pinging ? maybe?
-yes, that is entirely possible.
could it be timing 46 all in or do aluminum heads lose that much heat?
No, aluminum heads do not lose much heat. I think you need to get your timing right 1st and then revisit the cold running situation. After a run and shutdown, are the heads hot to the touch? The radiator's fins on both sides s/b hot as well
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hi bob, i have a duraspark distributor that is hooked up on manifold vacuum i cut a piece off another advance pod and attached with 4-48 flat head cap screws to adjust the amount of advance. the early style pod in your picture wouldnt fit but is a better piece from a tuning standpoint. i set the timing to 16-32 adjusted rod to give additional 6 degrees at idle and 38 all in . if this shows some improvement maybe slow the timing curve down some? i remember joe craine mention something about slowing the advance curve to help an engine rev smoothly. my car at 60mph is around 28-3000 timing is all in at 3000 maybe go to 3200,3400. the only time the engine gets cold is when the outside temp is below 70 degrees and dont have to stop for 10 miles at 60mph or so. heads are pretty warm rad is luke warm it is running like when it s almost ready to back out of garage! when driving in town it stays in normal operating range no problem! anyway bob thank you very much for trying to help !
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what size pulley do you have on your water pump ? might be turning wrong rpm for the rpm of your engine at 2800 . turning fan faster if you have mechanical fan , pumping water to fast ?
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Good idea,tomorrow I will take a set of calipers to the garage and measure thank you sir! ok i got a 6.770 dia crank pulley and a 6.640 wp pulley idid see a post from a while back about pulleys gonna investigate that!