FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: wayne on May 30, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
-
Jay you have done a lot of work with the fe when you checked how much oil is in the pan when running. It was very low do you see a tray doing any good.I am building a cj and have the tray but not sure if i want to use it maybe i want the crank to throw as much oil on the flat tappet cam as it can.
-
I like running a tray on a factory pan and then adding another quart to the system capacity.
-
+1 on that, I always use the windage tray.
-
I'll throw this out there...I'm not a fan of flat windage trays. Windage screens, scrapers, louvered windage trays that wrap the crank...all OK by me but flat trays in reality do more harm than good. First, they refelect oil back on the crank and increase drag on the rotating assembly, second, they keep oil from getting back in the pan. However, because they raised the oil level instead of correcting the real problem, that tray is probably necessary. I'd look at a different pan that gets the oil level down to "stock" and then run a screen and not a tray.
JMO.
-
Jay do you still have the video you did showing how much oil is trapped in the engine? I seem to remember 3qts becomes unusable pretty quick over 3000rpm and 1 1/2qts is hiding out even at idle.
I have the Canton Road race pan and autocross my FE Mustang with it, advertised at 7qt system. I run 8. At 8 the oil just touches the windage try engine off ,knowing 1qt is upstairs as soon as the engine starts I dont worry about loss of pressure on the autocross course.
-
I'll throw this out there...I'm not a fan of flat windage trays. Windage screens, scrapers, louvered windage trays that wrap the crank...all OK by me but flat trays in reality do more harm than good. First, they refelect oil back on the crank and increase drag on the rotating assembly, second, they keep oil from getting back in the pan. However, because they raised the oil level instead of correcting the real problem, that tray is probably necessary. I'd look at a different pan that gets the oil level down to "stock" and then run a screen and not a tray.
JMO.
You're aware that the factory tray has louvers, right? Just on one edge, but they are there. I actually like to use the Moroso tray, which is louvered all the way across, but the Ford tray has worked for me when using the stock oil pan.
-
Jay do you still have the video you did showing how much oil is trapped in the engine? I seem to remember 3qts becomes unusable pretty quick over 3000rpm and 1 1/2qts is hiding out even at idle.
Its on youtube.
-
Jay do you still have the video you did showing how much oil is trapped in the engine? I seem to remember 3qts becomes unusable pretty quick over 3000rpm and 1 1/2qts is hiding out even at idle.
I have the Canton Road race pan and autocross my FE Mustang with it, advertised at 7qt system. I run 8. At 8 the oil just touches the windage try engine off ,knowing 1qt is upstairs as soon as the engine starts I dont worry about loss of pressure on the autocross course.
I wouldn't be concerned about how much oil you have in the pan as long as you're not sucking it dry or losing oil pressure at WOT. In the racing world, you don't want a higher level of oil anywhere near the crankshaft as it introduces windage and aeration. EMC guys end up with VERY deep pans so that the oil level is kept far away from the rotating assembly.
If the oil pressure is steady at WOT, then I wouldn't give a second thought as to how much oil is in the pan.
-
I consider the CJ windage tray a "pan lid" more than a real windage tray. That being said, I use them when I have them. On my 489 I used it as delivered, on my 445, I drilled a bunch of holes on the "downward" side. My reasoning on the 445t was with a rear sump pan that didn't need the lid as badly and I was trying to make it peel off a little more of the windage. No idea if it did anything more or less, but if nothing else it gave a little more area to drain
That being said, the most important thing IMHO if you want to use it, is to trial fit and clearance the dipstick area on the passenger car style front dipsticks. In many cases, the dipstick can hit the tray, requiring sort of a twist or wiggle when putting the dipstick in, or even pushing the dipstick upwards toward the crank instead of down to the oil
-
Jay do you still have the video you did showing how much oil is trapped in the engine? I seem to remember 3qts becomes unusable pretty quick over 3000rpm and 1 1/2qts is hiding out even at idle.
I have the Canton Road race pan and autocross my FE Mustang with it, advertised at 7qt system. I run 8. At 8 the oil just touches the windage try engine off ,knowing 1qt is upstairs as soon as the engine starts I dont worry about loss of pressure on the autocross course.
I wouldn't be concerned about how much oil you have in the pan as long as you're not sucking it dry or losing oil pressure at WOT. In the racing world, you don't want a higher level of oil anywhere near the crankshaft as it introduces windage and aeration. EMC guys end up with VERY deep pans so that the oil level is kept far away from the rotating assembly.
If the oil pressure is steady at WOT, then I wouldn't give a second thought as to how much oil is in the pan.
There are some Super Stock guys set up so that they cross the line with zero oil pressure; no oil in the pan. ;)
-
Those super stock guys must be using Prolong or Z Max in their oil. Why not use a "squirt can" to oil the engine like they used to do in the early days at Indianapolis? What's next helium in the tires?
-
Those super stock guys must be using Prolong or Z Max in their oil. Why not use a "squirt can" to oil the engine like they used to do in the early days at Indianapolis? What's next helium in the tires?
If they thought there was a hundredth in it, they would.
-
Thank you all i will use the tray i always run a extra ot of oil.
-
Those super stock guys must be using Prolong or Z Max in their oil. Why not use a "squirt can" to oil the engine like they used to do in the early days at Indianapolis? What's next helium in the tires?
If they thought there was a hundredth in it, they would.
Saw Glidden's 351C Pinto at the Grove (Union Grove, WI) pair off in the finale with Dyno Don's similar Pro Stocker. They were pitted next to us. My bro' James saw them draining all the contents of the 9" Ford rear and about 1 qt. of tranny fluid from the Lenco tranny. Jim asked the Glidden team member (think it was young Billy G.) why? Said the rear would be fine for the final run and the lessened drag on the Lenco and rearend would drop the e.t. (IIRC) about .002! Glidden won that final race too.
-
[quote author=gt350hr
Saw Glidden's 351C Pinto at the Grove (Union Grove, WI) pair off in the finale with Dyno Don's similar Pro Stocker. They were pitted next to us. My bro' James saw them draining all the contents of the 9" Ford rear and about 1 qt. of tranny fluid from the Lenco tranny. Jim asked the Glidden team member (think it was young Billy G.) why? Said the rear would be fine for the final run and the lessened drag on the Lenco and rearend would drop the e.t. (IIRC) about .002! Glidden won that final race too.
We did that a lot of times in the 70's. We usually saw around 1/2 tenth gain with no negative issues.
-
Wayne, I hope my question is ok, as it's related and was going to start a thread until I had seen yours.
I bought a new 428FE complete engine and has the (front sump for my 427 Cobra) Milodon pan, but I did not ask if it had a tray, screen, scrapper etc.
I also have a Canton RR pan with all the fixins.
The Canton holds 1 more qt than the Milodon.
Is the Canton a better pan ?
My last 428 I used the Canton with the rounded mesh screen. (don't recall if I used the crank scraper)
Which is the better setup ?
Mostly spirited,.... street driven and a few track days.
So like Wayne asked, what would be best to use for my needs and oil ?