FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: bsprowl on October 02, 2023, 09:59:48 PM
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I have saved my money to build an FE powered gasser. I've decided to purchase many of the parts for it now before inflation devalues my money any more.
I'm probably one and a half years maybe two an a half years from getting it to the track (I'm old and slow). If I've read the rule book correctly many safety item have to be recertified annually. Seat belts/safety harnesses and scatter shields come to mind immediately. If I buy the scatter shield and don't use it for two years will I have to replace it when I get my car inspected.
I've tried to ask NHRA this question but their office (626-914-4761) told me they didn't know; they suggested I become a member and the contact my division tech director. (I'm in Alabama what division is that in?)
Does any body know how the certification thing works for new but unused parts?
I've got a couple of Lakewood scatter shields that are like new but useless except for mocking up the drive train layout. I really don't want to throw away another $1000.
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NHRA.com for division info, rule book is under competition tab. Everything you need to know is there. A lot of manufacturers will re-certify their parts that haven’t been damaged or modified. Contact manufacturers directly.
What et do you plan to run? Makes a difference in the amount of SFI safety equipment and certs.
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Like Mike said, ET thresholds effect what safety requirements are applicable. Concerning seat belts, if you are running slower than 11.99 ETs, your stock or expired SFI belts are OK, but if quicker than that, yes, you need to replace the 5 point safety harnesses every 2 years, unless you are able to have the original manufacturer reweb them, and put on new SFI tags. Scattershields have the same ET cutoff, SFI 6-1 & 6-2 scattershields have a 5 year period of certification, but many can be sent back to be inspected and recertified, but if the bellhousing has been cut, welded on, or otherwise modified, they most likely will not re certify it. Lakewood stopped making new FE scattershields several years ago, not aware of anybody making SFI scattershields for FEs, other than QuickTime, unless you want to spend much more for a custom bellhousing from a company like Browell . Also, be aware that the SFI dates are issued at the time of manufacture, NOT at the time of sale, or any other time. So it is possible to buy a brand new scattershield or safety harness that has been sitting on a shelf, and is already expired, or at least is closer to the expiry date than your may be aware of. So such things should not be ordered until you are actually close to being ready to put them into service. Other SFI dated items can include the clutch and flywheel, helmet, and for automatics, transmission and flexplate shields. Always seemed silly to me, that a 12.00 car can use factory 50 year old seat belts, but at 11.99 ETs, new, 3" wide, 5 point harnesses are no good after 2 years, or how a 1/4" thick steel scattershield is no good after 5 years.But, I don`t make the rules, NHRA does.
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Like Mike said, ET thresholds effect what safety requirements are applicable. Concerning seat belts, if you are running slower than 11.99 ETs, your stock or expired SFI belts are OK, but if quicker than that, yes, you need to replace the 5 point safety harnesses every 2 years, unless you are able to have the original manufacturer reweb them, and put on new SFI tags...
I’m sure just an oversight by Rory, but the seat belt rule changed to 11.49 a few years ago. Just a FYI.
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I don't know how fast I can get a '66 Falcon gasser to run. I'm hoping for 700 plus HP from a 486 stroker 427 with 13:1, compression very good heads, big solid roller cam and 2x4s on a tunnel ram via Jay's adapter. Maybe low 10's. I'm 78 so my reflexes are shot.
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Depending on weight and how well the car is setup,and driven, should be deep in the 9 second range with 700 actual HP. My 3100 pound Fairmont ran 9.9-10.0s with a flat tappet 454 FE with stock iron 428 CJ heads and a 780 vacuum secondary carb, and a 4 speed, with only 550 HP.
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If the Hp is in that range, I think your going to need a 8.5 Cert.
There is quite a bit of up grade from 11. to 8.5 (I just did one) and they will look closely at the chassis that you start with.
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8.5 wow! I would like that, we'll see.
I spent all morning in the rule book. The Gasser class is missing. Nor did I see a summary of what the 8.5 spec or 10.0 spec requires. Lots of places mention each so building to those will require very close reading and lots of notes.
Dual disc clutches have a 1 or two year SFI approval deal which is set by the manufacturer.
I need to build my chassis myself (funding issues). I bought a rotisserie to make that easier. I have never done this before so I suspect I'll have a deep learning curve. I've welded since I was a boy and have MIG, Gas and stick welders. I've been trained on front alignment so the straight axle conversion should be jkust matter of getting it where I want it. There are rear tubs in the car already but I didn't notice that the frame rails are INSIDE the tubs so that will have to be redone.
Building the cage to a 8.5 (or 10) spec will be the challenge. Both my son and I have a tendency to over build things so I'll probably have a heavier cage that what a professionally built one would weigh.
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Bob, NHRA has not had a "Gasser" class since 1981, so you need to follow rules for the ET Bracket classes, like Pro or Super Pro categories. The specs for minimum tubing diameters and thicknesses , and how tubes should be run are in the NHRA Rule Book. Best to familiarize yourself with that stuff before cutting the first piece of tubing.
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I jus spent almost an hour in the NHRA rule book.
Most of the classes don't allow dual four barrel carbs. I don't want to race any body, I just want to set some personal best times with a car I've wanted to build for may years.
Section 3.4 requires that I have radius rods on a tube axle, never heard of radius rods; the straight axle kit I bought from Speedway motors didn't include them and they don't have radius rods as an option. WTF
I have no idea what they want for a roll cage for my Falcon. The pictures of roll cages are not clear to me. I can't find how they want the tubes to be connected but they must be "properly notching the components", they don't say how or show pictures of what they want.
I guess I build what I want then get an appointment for a tech inspection in a year or so and they can tell me what I did wrong.
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Bob, search Rhodes race cars or Alston chassis for falcon roll cage. It will give you a good picture of the roll cage required by NHRA under rules section 21 general requirements. You really only need to follow section 4A for ET cars and use section 21 to check requirements for the ET you plan. Basically under 4A it’s run what you brung bracket racing as long as it meets general requirements.
Any induction is allowed, any suspension from sprung to solid mount as long as it meets general requirements again.
How is your straight axle mounted, something needs to control the for and aft movement?
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This is what the basic configuration will be for 8.5 cert.
1 3/4 DOM tubing .120 wall. You can have removable door bars. Rear bracing (I think) has to be 30° or more. The front vertical bar, needs to be connected to the roll bar, front and rear and that bar connected to what ever frame work you have. A cross bar, at a height that will adhere to the seat belt, anchor height.
I suggested the 8.5 cert, because, no matter the cert, if you go under, you won't be able to drive it again, until you upgrade to the next higher cert, in this case, it would be 7.5.
Depending on the NHRA inspector, they can make your life HELL!!! If you make assumptions. Best to find a certified car and take lots of pictures, if you plan on DIY. It also helps to talk to the inspector, in your region and tell him your plan. That was the first thing I did.
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The front axle will be mounted via two leaf springs with fixed perch in front and a shackle in the back.
I will be cutting away some of inner fend well but be adding braces front above the front perch to or through the fire wall to a behind the dash full width brace.
Mike: Thanks for the suggestion to visit Rhode's and Alston's sites. I was going to buy tube locally; I didn't know anybody made kits for this. I will be able to do the cage much quicker than I expected by using a kit.
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Good stuff right here.
https://www.gasserhotrods.com/forums/#gasser-hotrods-forums.55
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Could check these guys out. I bought a roll bar kit from them and a friend bought a 8.5 cage kit for his Mustang. I did not look for items for your chassis.
https://swracecars.com/
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SW race cars does have a kit for my car.
Thanks.
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A full 8.50 cage can be made using 1 5/8 tubing. Either .120 DOM, or .093 CM.
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I made a bender once. It was surly little thing just like the real Bender. ;)
(https://i.postimg.cc/X37HKmc3/DSCN0980.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ns4gQGjd/DSCN0721.jpg)
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Talked with the nearest NHRA inspector to day. He was very helpful. The roll bar should be behind and above the tallest driver's head.
I'm to send him pictures as work on it. He suggested I tack weld the cage together and then he'll look at it.
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That's the best plan and will insure that it passes when it's finished and you get your cert.
Don't try to skimp on any of the wall thicknesses, they use a sonic tester to verify the tube thickness.