BBM has posted again

[ScotiaFE]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1387054001/BBM+427FE+Block+Update

Great stuff!!!

[Bad Byrd]

Yep

Soon to be good time to be building a FE! Very well might be an all Aluminum FE in the Bad Byrd project!

[dubsan]

I have visited Rob at Blue Oval and seen the  blocks in detail.  One compelling feature of the aluminum cast blocks and heads is that they are the first  set  to be cast in a vacumn mold.  A  lot of machines are manufactured this way but previously no engine blocks.   This creates a highly dense material   obviously creating greater strength.  Seeing the  new block.heads side by side with an Edelbrock and  Blue thunder   the new set appears to be much more dense  while the tohers look highly pourous.

[KMcCullah]

I never thought I would see the day of so many aftermarket block choices available for the FE. If this keeps up.... Jay will have to do a new book. TGFEB comparo. 

[Barry_R]

...while the tohers look highly pourous.

As soon as you can find a porous Blue Thunder part please let me know.  You'll be making history...

[cjshaker]

...while the tohers look highly pourous.

As soon as you can find a porous Blue Thunder part please let me know.  You'll be making history...

Ditto that. Every Blue Thunder piece I have seen looks better than every piece I have ever seen before.  Better than factory castings by far.

[jayb]

+2, and I would go so far as to say that Edelbrock castings are pretty top notch as well; I personally have never seen a bad one.  Vacuum degassing the mold is a very high quality process, but as I understand it is also very expensive.  I'm kind of surprised they are building the parts that way, but certainly that process would result in a high quality part.

[machoneman]

I used to be a lot closer to the casting process but......

Methinks that vacuum degassing process they use is likely a continuation of the part-making system they use for all molds. Often, if they supply the automakers as well, stringent QC demands for an extremely low reject rate are the supplier's main goals as well since the profit margins are so thin. Not a cheap process but I do wonder if the low rejection rate balances out the costs. 

Someone like Rod C. would know more details but when working long ago with GM's Central Foundry Division at their Midwest foundries, it was shocking, to me at least, just how high the rejection rate was on newly casted parts. Cast iron was over a 20% rate while aluminum was at 40% or higher. And this was merely by visual inspection, meaning that more castings were scrapped at the pre-machining stations or after machining exposed flaws! Aluminum was the worst to mold yet the process was near identical to cast iron....pour the aluminum by gravity into a open mold (open to the fill, exit vents to the top) and let it cool.   

 

[Barry_R]

Vacuum casting is a term that can be applied to a lot of different processes. 

In its higher level variations it would employ permanent molds, a sealed cavity, and fill from the bottom with molten metal pulled into it by vacuum applied to the top.  Makes for very fine castings - but very expensive.  Normally used for fairly delicate and high detail parts that are done in high production volumes - think of thin cross section parts like motorcycle stuff or internal transmission components.

At F-M we used automated casting lines for OEM production pistons which were made by the millions - but could not justify the expense for aftermarket pistons where we poured as many as 26,000 per day using permanent dies.  I'd be very surprised to see that technology used in a low volume thick section part like an aftermarket cylinder head or block.  Maybe they're putting a post pour vacuum on the closed box???

[machoneman]

That does sound like the most likely explanation Barry as I also had trouble getting my head around how-did-they-do-that for such large cores and boxes. Bet you are right and time will likely  tell as they release more data on the block and heads. 

[Barry_R]

I guess I would like to see him use his given name instead of the "factory rep" tag.
I've talked to him several times and he seems like a very nice guy.
From what I can tell its a one man show on the US side.
Doing 100 block initial run would represent a huge investment - that's likely a couple hundred grand minimum to start up.
There is just too much "trust me" going into those posts right now given that the blocks & heads are coming from 6000 miles away.
I'm gonna need to "touch one" before I can really comment on them as far as features and quality.
I do know it'd be pretty tough to "tensile test" a block....probably just used the wrong terminology there...
I hope to be able to sell these once they are available - I already sell the new Sideoiler ones, along with Pond and Shelby

[jayb]

Vacuum casting is a term that can be applied to a lot of different processes. 

In its higher level variations it would employ permanent molds, a sealed cavity, and fill from the bottom with molten metal pulled into it by vacuum applied to the top.  Makes for very fine castings - but very expensive.  Normally used for fairly delicate and high detail parts that are done in high production volumes - think of thin cross section parts like motorcycle stuff or internal transmission components.

At F-M we used automated casting lines for OEM production pistons which were made by the millions - but could not justify the expense for aftermarket pistons where we poured as many as 26,000 per day using permanent dies.  I'd be very surprised to see that technology used in a low volume thick section part like an aftermarket cylinder head or block.  Maybe they're putting a post pour vacuum on the closed box???

I think putting a post-pour vacuum on the core box is exactly what they are referring to.  Either that, or they are vacuum degassing the melt itself prior to pouring the part.  I can't imagine they are using a permanent mold process...

[Cyclone03]

Although it was aluminum using a lost wax process,the foundry my dad worked at had closed vacuum chambers that the molds and aluminum all went in. The chamber was closed and a vacuum was pulled to 0-2inhg. Then the aluminum was poured in the mold. Alfter the mold was filled it was stablized (just left sitting) about 15-20 secs then the vacuum released and door opened. The now full mold was placed aside the process repeated.
When the vacuum was released the molten aluminum would "suck down" into the mold,actually pushed in by air pressure .

These parts where all used in the aircraft industry,and some of them are sitting on the moon,dad is very pround of that.

[cjshaker]

I've hesitated to comment on the BBM posts. Partly because I didn't want to seem biased having just bought a SOG block, and partly because I feel like I'm being talked at by a salesman....which I have had nothing but negative experiences with.  They generally don't know technical aspects, or at least just repeat what they were taught to say to make a sale. This guy certainly seems more knowledgeable than most, but there is still a lot of hype going on that may or may not pan out. I certainly hope it's the former.

The comparisons to the SOG block are a little unfair. Especially when it comes to price. I really do try to support American companies and small businesses, but beyond that the SOG block has some design aspects that are aimed more at handling higher horsepower figures. Like the siamesed cylinders that extend to the extra bracing at the water passages on the ends. So in that regard I see the BBM block as being (hopefully) a very capable engine block aimed more at the "average" street enthusiast. If everything "FactoryRep" says is true, then it should indeed be a good stout block.

I also would feel better about the whole deal if he would just come out and use his real name. Especially since I highly doubt this is truly a "factory" business. Again, it all just kind of comes across as salesman hype.

I do find the combustion chamber designs interesting. The swirl technology designed into them is easily apparent. Something not as easily seen in other head designs. I'm not entirely convinced that huge amounts of swirl in the incoming intake charge are always a good thing though. Kind of depends on what the engine is designed for in my opinion. In a race engine, I see lots of swirl as being somewhat unneeded due to race gas being used and actually undesirable due to the fact that swirl can actually disrupt the flame front. But that's just bench racing on my part.

Otherwise the heads and block do look like nice pieces. I certainly hope they pan out.