Some pictures and info of the Sideoiler Garage block....

[cjshaker]

I finally had a chance to go pick up my block Saturday. The 2hr 45min drive to Survival Motorsports was well worth it to meet Barry and Willie. But it wasn't just a pleasure trip, I had some stuff to drop off.....about 900lbs worth 

I'll let you guys analyze the pictures. I'll just make a couple comments based on my impressions.

The weight on my scales, which are pretty accurate, was 262lbs. Easily, 10 of that could be lost if you were scrupulous in removing the cross ribs, boring, did a lot of edge breaking etc etc. Obviously significantly more than a stock block, but you can't expect a stronger block and the same weight.











This is about the only flashing I saw that needed to be removed. Overall, a very nice clean casting. But like any fresh casting, it has razor blade edges and should have a complete edge breaking/chamfering of all machined surfaces.







The siamesed cylinders.









Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the block and very happy with it. It will be a good strong foundation for a high HP engine.

There is one issue that I don't like, It's the oil port from the pump to the filter adapter. There wasn't enough material cast on the back side (inside) of the block and the port broke through. A sleeve is installed, and that will probably work fine. I just don't like how it is a smaller port than the rest of the system to that point and beyond, so I'll probably enlarge it more. I'm sure it will probably be rectified in the next run....provided there is one.  To me, it's not major and can be fixed. Actually it already has been by the original casters, but I may do what I consider to be a better fix. I actually doubt it's even a problem, but I'm a little anal about things. It in no way affects integrity of the block or any alignment problems.
I love the block and can't wait to get started on my next serious build.

[jayb]

Thanks for the pictures, Doug, that looks like a very nice block.  Do they specify a maximum bore size?

[WConley]

What's the deal with the grade-8 hardware store main cap bolts?  I sure hope those are just to hold the caps on until you install your stud kit.  I can't imagine Barry would let such a thing out of his shop!

[cjshaker]

Thanks for the pictures, Doug, that looks like a very nice block.  Do they specify a maximum bore size?

Jay, there was a maximum bore size mentioned in one of the original posts but I can't remember what it was. I'm pretty sure it was less than the Shelby block, but not sure about  the Pond block.

What's the deal with the grade-8 hardware store main cap bolts?  I sure hope those are just to hold the caps on until you install your stud kit.  I can't imagine Barry would let such a thing out of his shop!

William (or Bill, not sure which you prefer), The block is "as delivered", Barry had nothing to do with the hardware. I will be doing a lot of work to the block before I give it back to Barry for final machine work, so the mains will definitely be changed out before then and cycled properly. I really think grade 8 is fine for the side bolts though. That's all the factory used and I doubt you could ever find a failure without something else being the cause. And with the side walls and webbing being so thick, I don't think stretch would be an issue.

[Qikbbstang]

 

Grade 8 bolts really that all that bad they have to be replaced on a 450-550-even 600HP FE  engines that will not be torn down routinely?........
 Unless those pictured bolts are some Chinese look-a-likes, US industries use thousands of Grade 8 bolts every day and they never have even heard of ARP in steel mills, power plants, refineries etc..      9" chunks and lockers are held together as are FE intakes and water pumps in/out with factory Grade 8 FoMoCo  bolts and there is not the first person running for ARPs for assembly.  Not sure if it can be argued but on blocks the studs/bolts are either only going into cast iron or aluminum with thread inserts.
     

[Bad Byrd]

The Grade 8 bolts will work just fine, I think the expectation is high when you buy an aftermarket block that costs that much................and to be honest it should be. Personally if it was mine I would change them out but thats me and it really has nothing to do with if they would work or if they wouldnt work..................its just sleeping at night knowing I made the right call.

What make me laugh is a lot of people re-use 40 yr old factory bolts on there rebuilding, along with re-worked 40 yr old parts that have Millions of cycles on them but are slamming new Grade 8 bolts......................but thats America for you! A person doesnt need facts, they have all the beer they need to talk smack!

[My427stang]

This is is just bench racing and a comment for the last post, no doubt Doug knows what to do.

I am the first to agree that there is a wide range of usable, and I agree COMPLETELY that the cross bolts will do fine with absolutely zero concern, but I would not trust that long of a Grade 8 bolt in the mains. 

Beer and talking smack aside, its 9:16 AM still drinking coffee  , the tolerances on a purpose built bolt are tighter, the stretch is less and if nothing else those big soft washers would scare me.

Matter fact, if they were the same length and torqued up properly, I'd have more faith in a used stock bolt with no washer on the mains.

I suppose I could be convinced, and probably already think it may work on grandpa's 360 in a pinch, but I would need to see how that Grade 8 torques, how it fits in the cap, how it feels in the threads, and what it felt like after a few heat cycles before I trusted that on a set of mains in something that moves some air. 

[machoneman]

Bench racing! Agree that the washers under the caps, even if they are hardened, need to hit the road.

[ScotiaFE]

What surprises me is that people are shocked by the cadmium plating thinking they are cheap bolts.
Cadmium plating is actually the most expensive coating next to gold which has about the same mechanical properties
on bolts. Cad plating is widely used in aircraft and marine extreme environments. It is being phased out in most places because it is extremely toxic.
It has better mechanical properties than the black oxide finish. That is on ARP bolts.
The washers are actually probably a hardened washer and most likely even has a numbers etched in it. They do look a little unsightly
hanging over the edge though.  just bench racing. 

[WConley]

Interesting discussion!  I do have a bit of experience with high performance fasteners, and I agree that SAE Grade-8 would be fine for side bolts and general fastening.

Main and head bolts are a completely different game!  FYI a typical ARP main bolt has 180,000 psi yield strength, while Grade-8 calls for 120,000 psi.  an extra 50 percent reserve strength would sure make me sleep a lot better.  Another key point is that the specialty fasteners are typically engineered for the application.  The elasticity is matched to the block-cap structure in order to provide the best clamp load retention.  A general purpose grade-8 bolt with a washer underneath?  Not so much.

These things see thousands of pounds of load and are beaten by millions of cycles during their lifetime.  The caps will deflect a scary amount under normal use.  Quality main fastener kits will have hardened and parallel ground washers that are precision sized to the shank.  General purpose washers will not be so parallel and have a sloppy clearance hole.  They are much more likely to squirt around in service.

[Barry_R]

A few comments...

First is a quick "Hi" to Mr. cjshaker- it was a pleasure to meet up with you.  I hope you enjoyed your visit - - things are often pretty hectic at the shop & we were preparing for PRI - so it was even busier than normal.

This was one of the first new Sideoiler Garage blocks released to the public.  This is not my project, but it seems that I am the primary guy selling them for the time being.  Tim has decided to stay in the background for a little bit - the last couple go arounds with business partners did not play out all that well and he's being very careful since this time he is doing it entirely on his own dime.

A few test pieces and prototypes have been around (one was displayed at last year's Beaver Springs race).  As an extension of the former Genesis program, the guys making these have quite a bit of experience at pouring and machining iron FE blocks - and have made numerous upgrades to the previous design, with a few more modest refinements planned for the next run.  As of this evening, the next run will be for a larger quantity, will include a number of aluminum blocks, and should be available mid/late January.  These are cast in Indiana and machined in Michigan - some pretty exotic locales - but it is nice to be able to personally visit the machine shop in an hour if questions arise.

The oil pump passage item noted was a CNC code machining error - they went too deep (or too high depending on how you look at it) and the drill point broke through the casting.  The repair that was made is simple and will be trouble free - I would trust it without hesitation.  But the programming error has been addressed and will not be repeated.

I have never seen a broken FE main fastener - even in blown up engines.  But I do agree that better looking hardware should be included.  At this moment he is in discussion with both ARP and A-1.  (If you've never seen A-1 hardware it's definitely worth a look - they supply Shelby stuff...).

We had one of the blocks on display at the PRI (Performance Racing Industry) trade show this week - and had a good number of folks come by the booth to take a look.  Helps to see and touch one in person...  At this time I would say these are best viewed as a nice upgrade from the former Genesis product - and I have literally dozens of those in strong running engines including a few that are over 800 HP.

[chris401]

I have read that the FE oil galley mains walked due to dull bits running fast over and over. New blocks and equipment, tooling programing?

[cjshaker]

Yes, Barry, it was great to meet you guys. I felt at home as soon as I walked in, not just from all the FE stuff around but from the friendliness of everybody I met there. I kept looking for a way to sneak out with the blower engine, but Willie kept his eye on me 

Chris, the oil holes to the mains are like that due to the stock Ford design. For the oil hole to line up with the center of the cam bearing bore, it puts it slightly off center of the main. Ford didn't see it as enough of an issue to correct in factory production, and probably rightly so as main bearing issues just aren't that common in FEs. However, when you start pushing HP figures up along with rod and piston speeds, it's desirable to get a smoother oil flow to the crank and rods, so a slight chamfering of the hole to get it centered with the main bearing hole is considered a normal thing to do. The new block is drilled slightly to accomplish this task. I will still smooth it more, but the offset drilled hole just makes it easier....or even not necessary if you desired.

[ScotiaFE]

I have read that the FE oil galley mains walked due to dull bits running fast over and over. New blocks and equipment, tooling programing?

You mean this?

[chris401]

I have read that the FE oil galley mains walked due to dull bits running fast over and over. New blocks and equipment, tooling programing?

You mean this?

I read it on the fordfe.com. Havent seen this yet. Ill read it when I get on a computer. Thanks