Author Topic: Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing  (Read 1421 times)

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machoneman

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Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing
« on: May 30, 2019, 04:37:05 PM »
Bob Maag

cammerfe

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Re: Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 05:21:12 PM »
Seems very worthwhile to me. And there are other advantages as well. Narrower rings means slightly more material left in the piston, itself, with a stronger piston in the ring land area. The ability to be above the pin hole and not lose support in that area is another plus.
It's all good.

KS

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Re: Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 04:24:08 PM »
I'd say 12 lb-ft of torque and 8 horsepower gain on a V8 when the only thing that was done was go from a 1/16, 1/16", 3/16" ring setup to 1mm, 1mm, 2mm ring setup is pretty significant. It's easy to dismiss these values because you do a lot to an engine to come up with an additional 20 hp, when you aren't handcuffed to a rule book that regulates pretty much every aspect of an engine. It's when engine builders start experimenting with certain parameters everyone else just took as a rule of thumb, that new regulations wind up being made. This reminds me of a personal interest of mine, mechanical variable valve timing. Some of you might remember Varicam and Cam-A-Go from back in the 60's, that's the stuff that really interests me. Well, not that long ago, Suzuki wanted VVT in their racing bikes but electronic VVT was banned. So, Suzuki designed a mechanical VVT system that used centripetal force to overpower a plate type spring that would allow the timing to be changed. In racing, most gains in performance are small gains. Overtime, the small gains add up to a faster race car. Mazda several years ago started emphasizing on shaving grams off of every part in a vehicle. Big picture, the car would weigh hundreds of pounds less.

Small gains add up quickly.
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machoneman

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Re: Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 04:53:05 PM »
I'd say 12 lb-ft of torque and 8 horsepower gain on a V8 when the only thing that was done was go from a 1/16, 1/16", 3/16" ring setup to 1mm, 1mm, 2mm ring setup is pretty significant. It's easy to dismiss these values because you do a lot to an engine to come up with an additional 20 hp, when you aren't handcuffed to a rule book that regulates pretty much every aspect of an engine. It's when engine builders start experimenting with certain parameters everyone else just took as a rule of thumb, that new regulations wind up being made. This reminds me of a personal interest of mine, mechanical variable valve timing. Some of you might remember Varicam and Cam-A-Go from back in the 60's, that's the stuff that really interests me. Well, not that long ago, Suzuki wanted VVT in their racing bikes but electronic VVT was banned. So, Suzuki designed a mechanical VVT system that used centripetal force to overpower a plate type spring that would allow the timing to be changed. In racing, most gains in performance are small gains. Overtime, the small gains add up to a faster race car. Mazda several years ago started emphasizing on shaving grams off of every part in a vehicle. Big picture, the car would weigh hundreds of pounds less.

Small gains add up quickly.

Actually, I do agree. Incremental gains are the game for so many combos in racing and even hot street applications. I posted the original article though to highlight that for most applications (save race stuff) the gains in the switch are quite modest.
Still, if one is ordering new pistons  for almost any application, it would be wise for the assumed small cost to switch to modern thin rings.....for sure!
Bob Maag

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Thick versus thin rings: back-to-back dyno testing
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 05:03:49 PM »
Certainly no one would tear down an engine to change the rings.
If you are building an engine from scratch it totally makes sense to use the more modern rings.