FE Whipple Compressor Intake Progress?

[wcbrowning]

In one of the threads, I don't recall which one, Jay mentioned someone was working on adapting a Whipple compressor to the FE.  I believe Jay's FE intake adaptor was to be the basis for the project.  Has there been any progress on this?

[jayb]

You must be reading my mind LOL!  In fact the guy who bought the intake adapter for that project put it on the shelf for other reasons, but he is still interested and he is a Whipple employee.  About a week and a half ago I contacted him to see how he was doing on the project, because my latest car project would be a perfect fit for a Whipple on an FE.  We've been going back and forth quite a bit since then, and he has recently sent me some CAD files showing the supercharger, the charger air cooler, and some other required parts.  I'm going to use these to try to design a version of my intake adapter that would allow the Whipple to bolt on and fit under the hood.  It will be a few months before I have anything on this, but if I can make it work I will post some information on the setup here when it is complete - Jay

[gdaddy01]

I will be interested , thanks

[wcbrowning]

I'm glad to hear you're exploring this.  I've been thinking about it for my 1964 Galaxie.  Although, for my application, I hadn't given serious consideration to utilizing an air charge cooler for two reasons:

1. I thought it would be difficult fitting the Whipple compressor under the hood by itself, without the added height of an intercooler.

2. It seemed like the Whipple air to water intercoolers were intended for marine applications, with an unlimited supply of cool water.  I wasn't really sure if it would be effective in an automotive application where, I'm assuming, you'd need a second radiator and pumping system to make it work (if it could me made to work at all).

Jay, which model Whipple compressor are you considering, and do you think it would fit under the hood of the 1964 Galaxie?  Thanks.

You must be reading my mind LOL!  In fact the guy who bought the intake adapter for that project put it on the shelf for other reasons, but he is still interested and he is a Whipple employee.  About a week and a half ago I contacted him to see how he was doing on the project, because my latest car project would be a perfect fit for a Whipple on an FE.  We've been going back and forth quite a bit since then, and he has recently sent me some CAD files showing the supercharger, the charger air cooler, and some other required parts.  I'm going to use these to try to design a version of my intake adapter that would allow the Whipple to bolt on and fit under the hood.  It will be a few months before I have anything on this, but if I can make it work I will post some information on the setup here when it is complete - Jay

[jayb]

I'm looking at the 275 cubic inch (4.5L) supercharger with the front drive and front inlet.  The charge air cooler does require a radiator to cool the fluid and an electric pump to circulate it, but based on my experience with centrifugal superchargers it is well worth the added complexity.  Using the intake adapter would allow the charge air cooler to dip down into the valley through the center opening, which will help with hood clearance.  An initial look at this indicates that the height of the supercharger up at the front of the engine, where hood clearance is lowest, is about 10.5" above the front block rail.  I would guess that this would fit your Galaxie, maybe with some trimming required of the hood support ribs.

However, forget the distributor with this approach, there is no room for it so a crank trigger setup and individual coil packs would be required.  Alternatively, you might be able to use the supercharger with the rear inlet, which may leave room for the distributor (not sure about that...).  Also, EFI is going to be required, of course, and a direct port system would be preferable.

[cjshaker]

It will be a few months before I have anything on this, but if I can make it work I will post some information on the setup here when it is complete - Jay

There has to be 48 hours in a day in Minnesota.

In my best Roy Scheider voice..."You're gonna need a bigger basket" 

[mbrunson427]

Here's a setup that is in our shop mezzanine......there hasn't been a project come along that it really would work for yet. It's been posted on this forum before.  I think i'm going to buy a 66 ford pickup and build it around running this manifold. Some local guy here in Denver had Hogan's fab up the intake and he bailed on the project half way through, we bought it without really having any plans for it.

Here's the problems I see.....
- inter-cooler is an issue. The guy had bought some flat style, it's about an inch tall and it would fit in between the blower and the intake. Of course that raises the whole setup one inch and may become a hood clearance issue. I'm questioning even using one if it's not used for a max performance build.
- The inlet of the blower is in the rear. It will probably require a fabbed inlet elbow similar to what you see on the late model shelbys/lightning/mustang cobras that have whipple blowers
- hardest thing will be aligning the belt in a decent position. The blower has a small window for fitment front to back on the intake, and that doesn't yield much wiggle room for the blower serpentine belt. At this point I kind of question if a custom snout will need to be made for the blower.
- In the next month when I'm putting together this 428 engine I'm going to plop it on just for grins, to see how much effort the belt positioning is going to require.

[Autoholic]

2. It seemed like the Whipple air to water intercoolers were intended for marine applications, with an unlimited supply of cool water.  I wasn't really sure if it would be effective in an automotive application where, I'm assuming, you'd need a second radiator and pumping system to make it work (if it could me made to work at all).

They were designed and intended for mod motors, as my memory recalls, which Ford has already designed an intake with a built in water to air intercooler. You do need a second radiator, reservoir and an electric pump. To use a whipple, you also need to be running EFI. I'm not sure what your current setup is, which is why I mention it. So this is not an idea someone pursues without a large chunk of cash for a FE.

[wcbrowning]

I had pretty much decided that I would go EFI, crank trigger and coil packs, especially after reading the thread on the dyno mule (Great Info!).  However, specifically regarding this potential Whipple setup, I was concerned that the compressor would leave no room to install port injectors.  Your initial look at it, Jay, indicates otherwise:  You think there will be enough space for them?  I was thinking about a rear inlet compressor.

Also very interesting is the possibility of tucking the charge air cooler down in the lifter valley.  I didn't realize that there was enough room in the valley for that, or, rather, I thought the heat exchanger was just too large.  Would it be possible for you to post some renderings of your new CAD files?  Thanks!

I'm looking at the 275 cubic inch (4.5L) supercharger with the front drive and front inlet.  The charge air cooler does require a radiator to cool the fluid and an electric pump to circulate it, but based on my experience with centrifugal superchargers it is well worth the added complexity.  Using the intake adapter would allow the charge air cooler to dip down into the valley through the center opening, which will help with hood clearance.  An initial look at this indicates that the height of the supercharger up at the front of the engine, where hood clearance is lowest, is about 10.5" above the front block rail.  I would guess that this would fit your Galaxie, maybe with some trimming required of the hood support ribs.

However, forget the distributor with this approach, there is no room for it so a crank trigger setup and individual coil packs would be required.  Alternatively, you might be able to use the supercharger with the rear inlet, which may leave room for the distributor (not sure about that...).  Also, EFI is going to be required, of course, and a direct port system would be preferable.

They were designed and intended for mod motors, as my memory recalls, which Ford has already designed an intake with a built in water to air intercooler. You do need a second radiator, reservoir and an electric pump. To use a whipple, you also need to be running EFI. I'm not sure what your current setup is, which is why I mention it. So this is not an idea someone pursues without a large chunk of cash for a FE.

[Autoholic]

Another idea would be to go with the inverted supercharger and intercooler. Ford's FPV division in Australia does this for the mod motor, as well as GM with the LS.

http://www.hp-f.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/10-FPV-Coyote-Engine-3.jpg

It might help with hood clearance and getting a large enough intercooler in there too. It's worth looking at, as it allows for a wider, shorter intercooler. You are limited on the size of the supercharger however, as it has to fit in the valley. Like the saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch. 

[jayb]

I had pretty much decided that I would go EFI, crank trigger and coil packs, especially after reading the thread on the dyno mule (Great Info!).  However, specifically regarding this potential Whipple setup, I was concerned that the compressor would leave no room to install port injectors.  Your initial look at it, Jay, indicates otherwise:  You think there will be enough space for them?  I was thinking about a rear inlet compressor.

Also very interesting is the possibility of tucking the charge air cooler down in the lifter valley.  I didn't realize that there was enough room in the valley for that, or, rather, I thought the heat exchanger was just too large.  Would it be possible for you to post some renderings of your new CAD files?  Thanks!

Yes, there is plenty of room for the injectors and also room for the charge air cooler, assuming the hoodline is high enough.  I will post some pictures of the design when I have it ready.

[Rich.P]

This is outstanding. This is just what I have wanted for my build. The idea of one of your adapters with an intake maybe similar to that of the GT 500 or whipple's own LS intake. I was also thinking of running the belt for the supercharger between the water pump and the timing cover with spacers of course for the water pump to keep the tension as close as possible to the block. I will also order a custom crank with a larger snout as well a custom damper with serpentine drive and crank teeth built in. This is exactly the route I will go. I also have an Eleanor style hood for the hood clearance issue. Probably run Holley EFI coil on plug of course. But with the coil on plug I will make up some valve covers that hide the coil packs similar to the LS covers that are available. I also can't wait for your new heads to come out Jay.
Jay thank you for your hard work and dedication to the motor we all love. I can't wait. 

[mbrunson427]

I will also order a custom crank with a larger snout as well a custom damper with serpentine drive and crank teeth built in.

On lightnings and 03/04 cobras, Ford opted to use a "caged lower pulley" which was basically an external bearing to help out the main bearings. Take a look at the link I put below. I thought this was a good idea by Ford, to keep the blower from wiping out the front main bearing. The general consensus of the mod motor crowd is that this was overkill by Ford engineering, but I tend to think that it's wise.

https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/rebirth-of-the-jdm-engineering-caged-lower-pulley.954570/