Starting to understand why building engines may be best left to the professional

[scott foxwell]

So who's to say who's right?
One way, the cam is ground "straight up" or not. The other way, the cam is installed "straight up", or not.

Well, all I can say is what exactly is "straight" if you install it as ground?

No matter what you do to affect cam timing, offset bushings, different slots in the gear, the 2 dots are always "straight" on the cam gear, and any cam if installed with advance or retarded centerlines is leaning one way or another.  However, only one situation puts everything equidistant, symmetrical, etc, and that is when LSA=ICL=ECL

I wasn't there back in the early days of building, but my hunch is advance and retard, or early or late, were very clear terms, but "not late or early" or "not advanced or retarded" is a lot more words than "straight up"

LOL...OK.
I guess sometimes even a cotton ball can be complicated.

[Yellow Truck]

I understood that. My only observation is that for someone not familiar with the process you might try to measure the two centre lines and use them to position the cam.

You only need to measure one. The intake event is really the most critical so that's the one to measure. You can't change the lobe centers when they're both on the same cam. On engines with separate intake and ex cams, you can change the lobe centers.

Scott - what I meant is you don't actually measure the centre line, you find the cam position by finding 0.050 inches of lift at open and close, and make sure they occur where you want (or where the cam manufacturer calls for). I was speaking as rookie and this kind of discussion can lead us to make the mistake of trying to find something that is not precisely measurable.

[scott foxwell]

I understood that. My only observation is that for someone not familiar with the process you might try to measure the two centre lines and use them to position the cam.

You only need to measure one. The intake event is really the most critical so that's the one to measure. You can't change the lobe centers when they're both on the same cam. On engines with separate intake and ex cams, you can change the lobe centers.

Scott - what I meant is you don't actually measure the centre line, you find the cam position by finding 0.050 inches of lift at open and close, and make sure they occur where you want (or where the cam manufacturer calls for). I was speaking as rookie and this kind of discussion can lead us to make the mistake of trying to find something that is not precisely measurable.

Roger that.

[blykins]

So who's to say who's right?
One way, the cam is ground "straight up" or not. The other way, the cam is installed "straight up", or not.

Well, all I can say is what exactly is "straight" if you install it as ground?

No matter what you do to affect cam timing, offset bushings, different slots in the gear, the 2 dots are always "straight" on the cam gear, and any cam if installed with advance or retarded centerlines is leaning one way or another.  However, only one situation puts everything equidistant, symmetrical, etc, and that is when LSA=ICL=ECL

I wasn't there back in the early days of building, but my hunch is advance and retard, or early or late, were very clear terms, but "not late or early" or "not advanced or retarded" is a lot more words than "straight up"

LOL...OK.
I guess sometimes even a cotton ball can be complicated.

Yeah, especially when you call the cotton ball the wrong thing.   

[scott foxwell]

So who's to say who's right?
One way, the cam is ground "straight up" or not. The other way, the cam is installed "straight up", or not.

Well, all I can say is what exactly is "straight" if you install it as ground?

No matter what you do to affect cam timing, offset bushings, different slots in the gear, the 2 dots are always "straight" on the cam gear, and any cam if installed with advance or retarded centerlines is leaning one way or another.  However, only one situation puts everything equidistant, symmetrical, etc, and that is when LSA=ICL=ECL

I wasn't there back in the early days of building, but my hunch is advance and retard, or early or late, were very clear terms, but "not late or early" or "not advanced or retarded" is a lot more words than "straight up"

LOL...OK.
I guess sometimes even a cotton ball can be complicated.

Yeah, especially when you call the cotton ball the wrong thing.   

I can call it a football as long as I know what it is. This whole argument of "straight up" is purely semantics.

[blykins]

So who's to say who's right?
One way, the cam is ground "straight up" or not. The other way, the cam is installed "straight up", or not.

Well, all I can say is what exactly is "straight" if you install it as ground?

No matter what you do to affect cam timing, offset bushings, different slots in the gear, the 2 dots are always "straight" on the cam gear, and any cam if installed with advance or retarded centerlines is leaning one way or another.  However, only one situation puts everything equidistant, symmetrical, etc, and that is when LSA=ICL=ECL

I wasn't there back in the early days of building, but my hunch is advance and retard, or early or late, were very clear terms, but "not late or early" or "not advanced or retarded" is a lot more words than "straight up"

LOL...OK.
I guess sometimes even a cotton ball can be complicated.

Yeah, especially when you call the cotton ball the wrong thing.   

I can call it a football as long as I know what it is. This whole argument of "straight up" is purely semantics.

Yeah, I'd disagree with that. 

When I tell you to install a cam straight up and you dial it in according to the cam card, then that's not semantics....it's a communication gap based on ignorance of a term. 

[Yellow Truck]

I can call it a football as long as I know what it is. This whole argument of "straight up" is purely semantics.

That will work if you are talking to yourself.

I happen to be interested in semantics at the moment. By brother's brain injury affected his language centers, and in particular he currently tends to pick the wrong word in a semantic family - father for son or daughter for mother, he for she, etc. He is not far off the right word, and if you understand the context you can follow him, but a stranger finds it bewildering.

Luckily he is recovering very well and may be released in a couple of weeks. Given that they had to keep him in a near coma for a week this is spectacular.

[Yellow Truck]

Easy fellows. I think everyone agrees on the underlying thing.

[scott foxwell]

So who's to say who's right?
One way, the cam is ground "straight up" or not. The other way, the cam is installed "straight up", or not.

Well, all I can say is what exactly is "straight" if you install it as ground?

No matter what you do to affect cam timing, offset bushings, different slots in the gear, the 2 dots are always "straight" on the cam gear, and any cam if installed with advance or retarded centerlines is leaning one way or another.  However, only one situation puts everything equidistant, symmetrical, etc, and that is when LSA=ICL=ECL

I wasn't there back in the early days of building, but my hunch is advance and retard, or early or late, were very clear terms, but "not late or early" or "not advanced or retarded" is a lot more words than "straight up"

LOL...OK.
I guess sometimes even a cotton ball can be complicated.

Yeah, especially when you call the cotton ball the wrong thing.   

I can call it a football as long as I know what it is. This whole argument of "straight up" is purely semantics.

Yeah, I'd disagree with that. 

When I tell you to install a cam straight up and you dial it in according to the cam card, then that's not semantics....it's a communication gap based on ignorance of a term.

OK, you win.

[scott foxwell]

Easy fellows. I think everyone agrees on the underlying thing.

Which is exactly my point.

[Heo]

I can call it a football as long as I know what it is. This whole argument of "straight up" is purely semantics.

That will work if you are talking to yourself.

I happen to be interested in semantics at the moment. By brother's brain injury affected his language centers, and in particular he currently tends to pick the wrong word in a semantic family - father for son or daughter for mother, he for she, etc. He is not far off the right word, and if you understand the context you can follow him, but a stranger finds it bewildering.

Luckily he is recovering very well and may be released in a couple of weeks. Given that they had to keep him in a near coma for a week this is spectacular.

Been there done that after my strokes.... For example calling my wife several ex girlfriends name

[Yellow Truck]

Been there done that after my strokes.... For example calling my wife several ex girlfriends name

As long as they were EX-girlfriends, but that is exactly the nature of semantic confusion.

[fastback 427]

This conversation is starting to "stall" out.  Sorry couldn't help myself.

[Yellow Truck]

I agree - heading out to pick up the tool to remove the spring. Saturday the sun returns, next report then.

[My427stang]

Paul, again, sorry to hear about your family challenges.  Hope you and the family hang in there.  Looking forward to upcoming success on all fronts