Question for the members regarding this board

[jayb]

This complaints board doesn't get a whole lot of topics (thankfully), but as you probably have noticed the recent posts have focused on a couple of well known vendors, DSC and Survival.  My inclination on this is to let these kinds of topics stand, because if I deleted them it would be viewed as dishonest by at least some of the members here.  On the other hand, I have had personal experience with both of these vendors that makes these posts seem a little unfair.  I have purchased a few parts from DSC, and had no problems, and I have purchased a LOT of parts from Survival, again with no difficulties whatsoever.  The responses under these topics lead me to believe that most others here have had the same experiences as I have.

It is a truism that you can't please all the people all the time, and any business is going to have at least a few unhappy customers.  Sometimes these customers are not going to be happy no matter how they are treated.  What do you guys think I should do about this?  Some options:

- Limit the posts to complaints about private parties, and delete any posts about vendors?

- Leave the posts up for a limited amount of time, and then delete them?

- Leave the posts as they are, and let others chime in with experiences counter to the complaint?

I'm open to suggestions.  My original reason for starting this board is to warn people away from dishonest individuals and substandard products, but the complaints about DSC and Survival certainly do not meet that criteria...

Edit:  Also, if you have something to say but would rather not respond publicly, send me a PM.

[Ididntdoit]

Why not let DSC and Survival reply with their side and then close the thread - I don't think these "rants" hurt these valuable members anyhow - we all know the truth

[Bad Byrd]

Personally I think that well over 95% of these type of threads go against the grain and dont hold water in any decision I make anyways. I have never really understood these types of complaint boards anyways..............personally I say Scrap the whole thing.............but thats just me.

[fastback 427]

My opinion would be to leave the posts as they are. It is a testament to Dennis and Barry's character to only have two complaints over the years. After presumably thousands of transactions a year to only have a couple complaints is unbelievable. It is nice to have a place for bad business practices to be heard. It should not be abused! Why is it that Barry never heard of this guy? I highly doubt that that this guy even purchased from some guy named Larry or Barry!!! And for the record I have bought from dsc and survival, all aces. One in our group took his all aluminum 482 to Barry for freshining and dyno tuning. He was thrilled with him. This board is a service to true fe people and should be treated as such. What would this guy have done if he ordered some new sohc heads from someone else on this board? Thats why its needed.

[bsprowl]

I would not allow anonymous complaints about vendors.

I also like the idea of locking them after the vendor and complaint have had their rebuttals.

[Drew Pojedinec]

the negative feedback toward Barry and DSC are of the same format.
They complain, say they never got anything, and disappear.  They are not members here really, least not participating ones.
In both threads, the vendor and many other people spoke up in the vendors behalf.

I am 100% certain if Barry or Dennis for example had a manifold like a Blue Thunder that was supposed to be drop shipped and the order got strung out 9 weeks they would have responded favorably to any phone calls or emails regarding a refund.

That one regarding Barry (or was it Harry?  pullleaze) well just the way he put all that it sure smelled like bad press, almost sounded like someone that is a vendor of comparable products.  I was waiting for a sales pitch at the end of it, ie "I went to Joe's BullshitSpeed Shop and got great service, they even installed the manifold for me for free!"

Anyone with any common sense can see the reality of the situation.  I say leavem and lockem.

[mmason]

I think having a complaint department is a little unfair to the vendor and to the on line readers. As you can see someone says what they think (as in bad) and the defenders have to come to the rescue.

If on the other hand you had a place to post your experience with a certain vendor you then could get the big picture like when you buy something on Amazon.com and read all the reviews.

In Barry's case, say if he had 30 reviews and 29 of them said they got an excellent product even though many had to wait longer than expected and one person had a bad experience, you could then  figure that you are going to get a good product but you might have to wait for it. The one bad review you could safely dismiss.

[machoneman]

Leave it as is.....for all the reasons mentioned above. I've noticed that these posters are a lot like a drive-by shooting.......they never return to the scene, undercutting the validity of their posts. JMO

[65er]

I'd leave them alone and be sure to voice support for the good folks.  I just think it's healthy to hear from all sides.   I haven't had dealings to be able to comment on DSC or Survival but if I had, I'd be sure to stand up for them.  I would at least have some good stuff to say about Brent if someone started ragging on B2 Motorsports for instance.   

[428GT500]

I am at a bit of a loss as to why we would want to remove the post. Many of us trade/purchase from people and vendors here. If there is a history of poor transactions, I would want to know before I funded something via Paypal, USPS money order or whatever monetary form you choose to purchase with.  I also see more issues becoming common as the economy declines.  The purpose is to protect the community here from unscrupulous shit bags, especially like Coon and FPP, which is sounds to me like they are very similar in operation. Leave them be, and if you have an issue, have the testicular fortitude to use your regular handle, not one you conjured up to trash an individual or their company.
                                                                                                        -Keith

[Drew Pojedinec]

I suggested these good seller/bad seller forums here.
I still stand behind the reasons, if you do not have them, the posts will still happen, just in the other areas where it is less appropriate.

[fe66comet]

I have only dealt with Barry @ Survival on my 445 build and he has treated me very fair and I at times can be kinda impatient. I commend him for putting up with me LOL.He is very helpful giving advice and knowledge and also very honest....Jon

[Bolted to Floor]

“Leave the posts as they are, and let others chime in with experiences counter to the complaint” is the option for me.
 
I like to see the reviews posted and how a person or vendor responds, if they do. I like to see the feedback from others, positive or negative. The forums are more than just technical information, they a great place to research things I may want to buy and who I can or shouldn't buy from.

Personally, when I have a problem I take it to that individual first. Bashing on the forums is a last resort.

To slow people down from signing up just to give a negative review make a minimum requirement. Vintage Mustang Forum requires you to be registered for 60 days and have 30 posts before you can access the classifieds section.
 

[machoneman]

2X to a minimum # of posts before using this area of the site as many 'Net forums already do this as you mentioned.

[jayb]

Thanks for all the responses, guys.  I also like the idea of having a minimum post count before you can post on this board; I'll see what it takes to set that up.  I think what I'll do is leave these comments here, but lock the thread after everyone has had a chance to respond, so it doesn't just degenerate into a bunch of name calling.  Thanks again for all the suggestions - Jay

[mammyjammer]

Instead of Buyer Beware how about calling it Vendor Feedback?
I can start it with positive feedback on Precision Oil Pumps and RobbMc.
Both were very helpful and provided quality products in a timely manner.
I even tried to buy more parts than I needed from POP for my fairly mild build and they convinced me to run my stock parts!

[cjshaker]

I also like the feedback areas and think they should stay. Although when I first read "child boards", I thought it was a place for kids to play on here. I thought that was pretty strange   And yes, I'm serious

The minimum post count sounds like a good idea. "Drive by" hits are the main concern, usually coming from somebody with an axe to grind or an ulterior motive. But not all sales are from vendors. Since most of us regular FE guys have had dealings with the bigger FE vendors, we pretty much know what to expect and for the vast majority they are really good guys. I only concern myself with private dealings with people I don't know, and in that regard these boards are very useful and even help to strengthen the FE "community" here.

[jayb]

Instead of Buyer Beware how about calling it Vendor Feedback?
I can start it with positive feedback on Precision Oil Pumps and RobbMc.
Both were very helpful and provided quality products in a timely manner.
I even tried to buy more parts than I needed from POP for my fairly mild build and they convinced me to run my stock parts!

You can post positive feedback under the Good Deals board; I would encourage everyone to do that if you have a good buying experience.

I don't know why they call these things "Child Boards", seems a little strange to me too.  But as far as I know I'm not able to change that name, so that's what they're called...

[mmason]

I think child boards is just another term for sub-forum.

[machoneman]

Yep! The parent board is the main (or one of the main) posting boards, hence the 'child' moniker.

'Course, does this mean there is a step-child board....LMAO!

[Chad D]

Providing a venue for anonymous complaints certainly has the potential for abuse.  It is tough to balance the individual's desire to air a gripe (and potentially save us all some dough/time/frustration) with a vendor's need to counter that gripe (which can tell us who the good guys really are).  Perhaps require an order number and date so the vendor has the opportunity to make it right or at least successfully investigate the complaint?

[Lenz]

I would support keeping this section of the forum as it is.  Drew is correct that this type of input needs a home or it could land anywhere.  Personally I was not affected by the negative post against Survival, I've got the 447 stroker kit on order right now.  I spoke with Barry and believe he'll deliver what he promised.

Bottom line is I did my research, I reviewed the costs and my opportunities and I made my choice.  I believe I made the right one and seeing the negative input from one bad experience doesn't affect me.

[Ford428CJ]

Being a vendor myself... I dont have any complaints. There is always 2 sides of the story as we all know. You cant make everyone happy, even if it cost you money and time. I think the guys here all have good points and merit! I know all the vendors try to help out the customer the best they can with there needs! Dennis, Barry, Blair are really great guys! I'm good with whatever LOL

[rockittsled]

I agree also with allowing the vendor to respond and Chad D had an interesting add-on with requiring info for research for vendors response

[glxi390]

If you're going to go with a post count, I better get in my 1.8 cents worth [Canadian currency]while I can. The FE community isn't huge and guys like Barry, Dennis, Blair, Brent etc. have already earned good reputations. Thats why so many people here step up
to defend them.
As for the guy's manifold , it came but it was $$$$$$$$. No wonder with 'a guy named Art on the box', UPS charges by weight.
Sorry just couldn't resist.     Rick

 

[Joe-JDC]

Sometimes timing is EVERYTHING!  Recently I tried to buy one of the new aluminum blocks from Barry R., and was waiting on a phone call back to give pertinent information for shipping, etc.  During the couple of days it took him to call me back, I had several things happen, and it was unfortunate that I was unable to answer the phone when he did call back.  Since then, I have had many, many things happen that have taken much more than the asking $4200. for that aluminum block.  Just today my insurance adjuster finished with checking my house, garage, and tool shed for hail damage, and they will require a complete replacement.  I know Barry, DSC, and others are busy, so give them the benefit of doubt that they are intentionally not calling back at your time schedule.  For me, I still want one of those blocks, but my wallet needs a few weeks to regroup.  Just saying,  timing is everything in the machine shop businesses.  Joe-JDC

[hossfish77]

I think you should leave it the way it is. I recently had a bad exsperiance with one of the venders and think I might have went a different rout if I had found this sight before hand.