Author Topic: Cooling fan HP losses...  (Read 12613 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chris401

  • Guest
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2017, 03:03:13 PM »
If a person wanted or had to use a stock belt driven water pump the same concept as a clutch fan could be used in the waterpump housing. The impeller could back away from the cover to regulate psi and be over ridden by temperature. Seems it would be a fairly easy power saver. Easier than hiding nitros in a pillar or welding a C6 bell housing to a C4.

tomsfe64

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 03:12:15 PM »
No electric fan will ever flow the cfm of a real fan.

Cyclone Joe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
  • Joe
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2017, 03:12:59 PM »
How much of a Hp power draw does the 3G take compared to a standard unit?  Are you moving the HP draw from one device to another?

Joe

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7410
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2017, 03:23:53 PM »
No electric fan will ever flow the cfm of a real fan.

Who told you that??  My Spal fans pull more air than I've ever seen a mechanical fan pull.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 03:34:47 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7410
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2017, 03:32:43 PM »
How much of a Hp power draw does the 3G take compared to a standard unit?  Are you moving the HP draw from one device to another?

Joe

Its pretty minimal.  You can calculate it by knowing that 1 HP = 750 Watts.  So for example, let's say that you are changing from a 60 amp alternator to a 200 amp alternator.  That is a difference of 140 amps.  Let's also assume your charging system is putting out 14 volts.  Power in watts is equal to current (amps) multiplied by voltage.  So, 140 amps X 14V = 1960 watts.  1960 divided by 750 is 2.61 HP.  If your alternator is only 50% efficient, that's about a 5 HP difference.  And the alternator is probably a lot more efficient than 50%.  Plus, your 200 amp alternator is not putting out 200 amps all the time, it is only delivering that amperage when it is required. 

Now let's look at an electric fan, that draws 15 amps continuous at 14V.  That is 210 watts, and again assuming a 50% efficiency in the alternator, the alternator is requiring 0.56 HP to generate the power for the fan.  On the other hand, per the previous posts you can expect to lose at least 10 HP running a mechanical fan.  Is it any wonder all the new cars have electric fans?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2017, 03:48:41 PM »
I sure wish they had tested a non-thermal clutch fan.   It would seem that type of fan would disengage more as rpms and drag increased.   A thermal clutch fan might not. 

JMO,

paulie

chris401

  • Guest
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2017, 05:22:26 PM »
I sure wish they had tested a non-thermal clutch fan.   It would seem that type of fan would disengage more as rpms and drag increased.   A thermal clutch fan might not. 

JMO,

Paulie
Simulate driving conditions with a 70 mph fan blowing on the front of the engine. The engine fan drag won't use as much hp on the road as compared to a stationery dyno. I think if someone was dedicated enough they could modify the water pump like I mentioned. If a turbo can be produced with variable pitch the same could be done on most pumps. Less of any engine drag means better economy for any vehicle.

Heo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3290
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2017, 06:19:54 PM »
I found out when i lost a fanbelt if i drove over 70 mph
the fan rotated the waterpump enough to not overheat
So some of the powerloss must help to pull the car forward.....
How do we test that? :o ;) :D



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2017, 09:42:54 PM »
I know lotsa drag racers with electric water pumps and fans.
I don't know many that run them while doing a run.

On the street I don't see how it matters.
I run electric fans simply for packaging reasons.

chris401

  • Guest
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 10:40:50 PM »
I know lotsa drag racers with electric water pumps and fans.
I don't know many that run them while doing a run.

On the street I don't see how it matters.
I run electric fans simply for packaging reasons.
I bet under a certian speed it matters a lot. I had a 19 1/2" cluth fan lock up on my truck once. After 4000 rpm it could be heard very well over the glass packs. A man I knew with a 99 Powerstroke put a kit on his cooling fan that assisted engine braking. I can't tell you anything about them or how well they worked though.

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2017, 08:27:28 AM »
Yeah, I had an 89 F250 like that.  Sounded like a B17 and was obvious even over the diesel engine.

I love fan clutches.  Sadly I have no room in my vehicles for them.

Heo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3290
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2017, 10:12:40 AM »
I had a big 8 blade fan with stainless blades
Oem FoMoCo from what i dont know
That was the first thing you heard of my
Fairlane. It sounded like a Hoovercraft
before you could hear the engine



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cjshaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4461
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2017, 12:02:56 AM »
Yeah, I had an 89 F250 like that.  Sounded like a B17....

Hmm, now if it sounded more like a Corsair, I'd seriously consider switching over  ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

TorinoBP88

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Jay. What fans did you use in your 64 Galaxie? Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2017, 06:08:23 PM »
Summer is coming and i want to reduce the thermostat in by 428 down to a 160 (195 in it now) and consider an electric fan now that i have a 3G alternator.  Wondered what you used in your SOHC galaxie?

Thanks

cjshaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4461
    • View Profile
Re: Cooling fan HP losses...
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2017, 07:08:46 PM »
I don't recall the thermostat temp that Jay uses, but I know he uses Spal fans, and I agree that they're the best.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe