Author Topic: Setting the fuel pressure...  (Read 19246 times)

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My427stang

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2016, 07:38:20 PM »
Tom (aka HollmanMoodyStroppeGang) do you have any pictures of those old trucks and engines?

And that's when the trouble started.... LOL.   Sorry, but it's a bit of an inside joke that has nothing to do with your post and this Forum. Tom was a bit camera shy back in the 60's and 70's possibly due to his age however he does provide some good info once you filter out the unapplicable parts.

As for timing, I'd start with the BBM recommendation of 32 deg. The newer style chambers don't need or want 38 like the old days. No idea what rings you used but they will generally seat almost immediately. There again, not like the parts of old. Won't hurt to run it up and down a few times under a load but I wouldn't worry about the 1/2 hour ritual.

100% agree
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2016, 06:53:19 AM »
I missed your request about the old shop. We never had a problem with pictures of Ford racing, I just don't have time to scan, file, format, upoad and all of that.

We have piles of scrap books, and hopefully some day we can get these up on the web but doing so is not my passion.  I have a ton of work, not a lot of time, and too many teams and projects happening.

If we get more help, we all think it could be fun.

Thanks for the request. We do have a website or 2, email us and we can share it maybe soon?

Our truck programs usually had 7 to 11 cars entered, in Class 1 through 7. We had an amazing win/loss ratio.

FORD filmed our trucks for their ad campaigns on TV and these old commercials are on U Tube we are told.  Look for a fast, white truck, getting air, and FORD saying..FORD   tested tough..

Google Walker Evans, FORD, Off Road race trucks, or Parnelli Jones, Bill Stroppe, Big OLY, Off Road Bronco.   Look for the cars from about 1967 through around 1978. It was such an nice thing, to have such a dominant racer, and he is a platnum race winner, in trucks we built for him.

When FORD defunded FORD racings part of the race trucks, Chrysler raced in, handed us 1 Million bucks, and fully funded Walker to build his own shop and truck program. So we became Dodge Racing while still having FORD racing contracts for a while.

The Parnelli Jones Winged Bronco won every race it entered, but maybe one if I recall

Ford was so happy about this that the Bronco, is in the Parnelli Jones wing of the Indianapolis 500 museum there on the grounds.  I posted pictures of me, Stroppe, Parnelli Jones, Larry Knapp and others a few summers ago. We were judging at a SHELBY event.

I got pages of emails after this lamenting a few people who invented things to claim we were not there and felt this wacky smear stuff might subside. No reason why it should not have because me and the gang were there, with a spare...LOL  a spare BFG race tire   and we blew up hundreds of them racing in the desert !  LOL !!  Shredded them silly !!

Larry Minor had us build his race F250s for about 5 years. We are all still friends. He was a major provider of french fries to MsDonalds for decades and is quite successful. He is a happy, strong, racers racer. He did well, then he went back to Drag Racing and sponsored the McDonalds Top Fuel team with Ed the ACE ,,,,and the red Funny car with Cruz Pedregon and others. Google Larry Minor off road race truck, FORD f250. To be in a shop that builds the race cars for Larry Minor himself, was a privilege. He sure could beat and beat on a race car. We all laugh and cry remembering how hard he could race !!   He was a brute !!  never lifted !!

Rod Hall raced our trucks, so did heir to FORD Motor Company, BENSON FORD. Google Rod Hall, FORD race truck,,,,or Ben FORD, Courier race truck,,,in the 1970   1976 era.

Very fond memories I personally have of being in the DYNO cells, with Dyno Dan N(Built cammers for Dyno Don), was in FORDs EEE in Detroit.....anyway, i got to know BENSON FORD by explaining to him what we were doing as his race engines spun away in preparation for his Hot Rods.  Ben Ford did real well racing his Ford offroad.   Very kind, funny, decent, classy guy. Always has an entourage of assistants with him. A Doctor, Lou Fuentes, who was his Trustee, and a Lawyer, who was a hoot.  And often a fellow mega millionaire from Detroit

We all were a very thankful FORD family. We raced to win, and won a lot.

Jack Roush was just beginning his race programs, and we would get him a motel and car, when he visited out West. He had yet to make the millions and remembers Stroppe and the boys for being very good to any FORD team member

We built cras for Mario Andretti and boy did I light up when he walked in to the machine shop one day and I was turning parts. Trust me, I shut down my machine, smiled until it hurt and said hello, in Italian.  He smiled and smiled,,,,and of course asked,,,,where's Byron ( Our Leader, Foreman)

James garner, the actor,,raced our trucks,,,,google that. Steve McQueen raced COBRAS we did. He would walk in the shop,,,,,one time,,,,with Nataly Wood on his arm?  mama Mia !!

There are many more.  We were fortunate. We had a huge piece of the FORD DRAG TEAM, and the FORD GT40 program.   I kept dyno data, and engine build sheets from this whole era.

Late on, when this shop closed, I went into partnership with our best guy, to do FORD race engines for a few years a mile away.  My Boss then, built the drag car that won the First US Nationals.   My next shop was doing engines and new car R and D with Stroppes best chassis man. We founded Terra Van, then BERM engineering, and one more corp. BRUCE, helps me do our essays here and there. He wrote for Off Road for about 10 years, and we raced top fuel in the late 60s. I was young, but building drag motors from a very young age with my older pals. Mostly, doing Crew Work, like writing down all the tune up date, then serviving it all betwen round. BRUCE, was a Crew Chief on Kalittas SOHC top fuel car for about 3 years.

If Connie remembers us, it felt odd some guys none of us know could be so upset that, we did not sna a KODAK hour by hour.  ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa      bruce wants his tool box back Connie,,,,that is his joke. Kaliita stole one of our guys roll away    He laughs so hard when we remember this

Stroppe, PRE Holman, dynoed Kalittas Nitro SOHC. We also changed his chassi out. Cut up is dead chassis tubes and made a Go Kart !!

People wanted all of this in a book, i didn't....LOL....So me and 5 of the old team, began meeting, chatting and remembering this era, and I shared some of it online. The pushback never made sense to any of us, especially since the 6 of us, never met, or even know, a few guys who made a huge fuss over a lot of odd, personal things my friends would rather keep to themselves.

please believe this, from the heart. Every essay I did, was out of deep respect for the men who were our mentors, leaders and influences, and are no longer here. The remaining guys, have shared a little of the old FE team, out of appreciation to FORD, and respect for the older men. And of course, for teh FORD racers who we lost, while hanging it out for FORD.

Also Google our Courier Race Trucks.  We did race trucks for FORD, to promote the COURIER line of vehicles.   They were a nice platform for a very blueprinted, inline 4, on propane.

This was the Rough Rider era and Stroppe was a founding Father of off road racing, the BAJA 1000, the MINT 400, the Parker Race and more

Mickey Thompson got involved in the mid 70s, and helped give birth to stadium off road racing

Google OFF ROAD magazine artciels from 1970-80. We were in most issues, because we at times entered 7 classes, and won all 7 classes, for FORD

There is a book, called, The Boss, that recalls a lot of this era, and that was vetted by FORD Motor Company

We were so thankful to be well funded, to continue to race FE's, long after the Drag Team was de funded

So many of the team, and we had over 125 men in the shop for a while, made a living, racing 428s,390s, 427s, stroked 390s and also, refreshing FE's from the prior FE race boats, Drag Team cars, and more

We had a lovely engine room, and engineering building.  7 engines could get built at a time, on stands that were poured into the concrete, in a line, on a floor painted epoxy dark FORD Blue

An overhead crane and chain fall lifted then rolled them down to 2 FORD top shelf Heinan Freud precison race engine dynos,  Once broken in, and dialed in, they slid in to a race car. And then came back, and torn down and inspected as I have described.

We built many winning INDY engines, many race cammers for Pro Stock, and Drag and Off shore boats.

We built the 2 fastest SOHC ever, they all agreed, since my bosses and mentors, did the 2 cammers for the AUTOLITE SPECIAL.     This is the same streamliner Danny Thompson just set a new world record with. He did it for his Dad, Mickey Thompson.  Danny and me smiled about the old SOHC car, last Summer.

please  google that awesome hot rod.  We all took it to Bonneville in 67. My 2 main bosses, who I did engines and machining under, were quite proud of FORD here.   These 2 SOHCs, went 370 MPH, then 380 MPH on very bad salt. The rain, had hurt the course so nobody could floor thier car and make a full run.  2 of our SOHCS, spinning the tires, and not even floored, hit 380 MPH. 

We built a lot more, in the 70s.  I remain very proud of FORD and the old shop for pushing an FE that hard. These SOHC were injected. We have 1 spare SOHC from this very smae program. I did an essay on it elsewhere

There are more trucks, and also, a wicked fast EDSEL, with a 427, that flew off road.

We also wo PIKES PEAK a lot, for FORD, Google the UNSER Talladega Pikes Peak winner, with a stroked BOSS 429. We worked hand in hand with SMOKEY YUNICK on that program. I met him, in our FORD shop. He did side work under contract then.  He was not all CHEVY.  He liked the BOSS 429 architecture a lot. So did DYNO DON, who I helped, and crewed for

Thanks

HMS Tom


PS   On your break in?   It is wise, for us, to bed in brakes and clutches.  Listen to McLeod.....if you are easy on the disc, and heat cycle it a few times, and let it bed in, of fit by friction, it WILL last longer, as will brakes.   Bedding in brake linings, is kind of like curing the adhesives, and, hardening the compounded materials,   I thought everybody knew that but the manufacturers know how to help the materials last longer.

On NITRO, we even bed in the powdered metal discs, by seasoning them with a few runs, then the get harder, you rockwell test them, make notes in the tune up book, turn the discs, and compare the clutch pack recession after

On the break in, we also let the mill come in to it's own in no huge rush.  It is cheap insurance for a nice long life, But we all do our thing. So side step the clutch at a high launch if it makes you smile. If you hurt it, heal it

Thanks

Last tidbit

Spoke to Don the Snake yesterday.  The SHELBY Super Snake is alive.  They fired it up. It sounds bitchin. I have a video. DON himself put the engine in, 2 times because teh candlestick was 030 too long.  For new guys, a candle stick is the drive shaft in a Funny car or Dragsters.  Just a tough, splined shaft.   The SOHC has an ENDERLE shower head injector(HAT, but the side nozzles are for show, and blocked. She has a plate under the bug catcher for 8 HAT nossles. Hat nozzles spray fuel on top of the blowers rotors.   He did the fuel system himself. The port nozzles are key, and they got set to cackle, and do burn out

She has a blank in her.   To new guys, this means, she has no high speed bypass jet in the barrel valve.  On a Drag mechaincal injection set up, with 8 hat nozzles, and 8 port nozzles, the PILL has a small hole in it to lean her out at high RPM.  The bigger the hole, the leaner.  One little step, a mere 010 change, can melt the entire engine down and destroy the motor in the blink of an eye, at high speed.  Running a BLANK, says, we have her nice and rich,,,or nice and FAT. FAT, means more fuel. More fuel means, more flame. More flame means,,,,get ready for a bitchin show !

Don set the mag at a safe, 40 degree BTDC.  Let's see....no plan to do a burnout 2 weeks from now. The debut will be a secret, as this time comes, email me and we can maybe meet.  Today, Rodders Journal is doing a full photo shoot. Started yesterday.

Snake says he raced for 50 years, and we tried to talk him in to driving again. He is so cool, he said thanks, such a cool dude, but he said, I have 3 daughters and I am in to many other things these days.  He also said, OUCH, to how much finishing this engine cost him....LOL

He knows us through Don Long who did the chassis, then and now.  Don Long had about 5 of us help finish the car over about a 1 year period.  I was very happy when LONG handed me the new Snake Crew T Shirts they made. Long siad, here Tom, have 2 T Shirts, you earned them.  Well, modestly, I was thrilled just to touch any pert of this bad old beast again. So was Terry, Paul, and the guys who help Don Long.

Have the Grand American Roadster show this weekend. Thank God, we were blessed with a clas win, each year, for the last 7 years. Hope to get the CHIEF a 2016 trophy out there in Pomona

See you cats next weekend

Testing a Heritage Funny car this wekend too





« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 07:42:46 AM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

ScotiaFE

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2016, 08:15:14 AM »

There are more trucks, and also, a wicked fast EDSEL, with a 427, that flew off road.

Thanks

HMS Tom

So I had to google the Flying Edsel. I love Edsel's.
Sure enough I found one flying through the air. Way Kool. 8) 8) 8)
This one says 1980 Baja 500 and 1000.
Same one Tom?



http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/03/galaxia-de-la-baja-off-roading-in-style/


cjshaker

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2016, 11:58:40 AM »
Maybe there should be a new Child Board started, for Tom's stories? Where people can go if they have a couple hours to kill.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Ha Ha  !  please man, take a chill pill?   Maybe if you do not like our old gang sharing true facts about our race programs, be it me sharing what Bobby,, age 84, Dave, 81, Bruce, 69, Dan   68, and Willie, me, and the rest, getting together to recall our team, or the vendors we used helping, guys also well into the 60s....and up in the 80s, how about you just skip it and do you own work?

We are helping a real nice FORD man tune his Hot Rod, how about you suggesting how you would dial her in and why?

Please, say anything you want about the guys break in, tune up,fuel curve, how to dial her in, anything relevant?

I love it when anybody shares any race related tid bit. They help me think about maybe helping build a better mouse trap?  If you dislike it so passionately? Read another analysis...? Add content that is germaine? Share your tune up book? Or maybe just share your biggest wins, best ETs, and past Teams,,,,,,it is all good man...

Just doing what a lot of members asked us to do, share the old tricks, methods and wins

I dont care if you disagree with how we dial stuff, in, we all share and learn here...me too?

I don't know what your issues are but please, lets meet face to face some day, laugh, go fast and be gentleman.

None of us know you, or a few more trouble makers..haha    teasin back. So maybe you are the head of R and D for Roush, or just as capable, that is awesome,,,,show us what ya know? Or maybe just share how you'd skin the onion?  Its all cool?

But I ask you a simple question CJ, get on a plane, or train...lol   come meet all of us, and just repeat all of the stuff you claimed here, and there? Ok? Man to man, on video if you wish? In front of our guys, and all of us will show you, we mean no harm, and tell no lies as an old group of pals.

I was told you are a good wrench on imports, that is just awesome, share the tricks you use to make these cars reliable, and long lasting.  I have a Crew Man, who is a real good LEXUS Tech. We change heads on blown fuel HEMIS, and talk LEXUS reclls, tune up tricks, and so on. It is very interesting, and some of it does translate to FORDS, and race cars.   Especially the precision, and attention to detail aspects

Thanks

Grand American Roadster Show, and Fuel Funny cars for me

Doug, you have some nice cars, lets just do good work and leave the,,,dumb stuff,,,in the garbage where it belings

Childs board....ha ha...I dont hve kids...nor do my bros

Be well big guy....we are better than this bickering BS. Would you mend a fence and feel better if I, well, you love the Mickey Thompson, Ongais Funny car. Our Team helped that team, I know Danny, and knew Mickey well. I know Amos

How about we get you a signed picture of that bad blue Funny car some day? Then would ya just mellow?

Amos tuned it, Danny has a shop by us, how about some little gesture? And you can return the kindness somehow...

I am assembling a 427 SOHC today. All original block and heads. MAG blower intake.  SK crank.

I am in a wonderful mood due to it.  I got a call that a few guys were trying the stuff again, so email me if you have some pressing issues...cool?  Every daylight minute I type, costs m,y family income.  And some of the BS on 54 affected our jobs.  We had to explain these weird phone calls and emails to friends, the secretaries, and so on.


Howie?

The EDSELS were very very fast

The younger engine men got to build off of the blueprint and dyno sheets from the older guys

This car was fiberglass for a while, on a tube chassis, light, and 4 of us did FE's with each and every NASCAR 427 trick in the boo

This boy had some wicked fast race gas 427s,,,,,High Risers, Tunnel ports, a stroked FE or two and it was wicked fast. Full blown race gas engines, with over 13 to 1 in some cases and long, well tested, NASCAR race winning camshafts,   Dual quads in 1 class,  KENDIGS in others(1000CFM plus)

The point was this. A lot of us rose to the occasion to win this class, because everybody felt the EDSELS got a raw deal.   We mostly felt they were a solid car, with many modern features, and great engines, drive trains, transmission and strength

So we did a lot of trick FEs for EDSELS, including guuted Drag Cars

This is a later version, you can tell because it has jackman wheels. The 71-4 Edsel team that won the most, used know offs, ANSEN 15by10s and a full floater.  I made a lot of full floater parts since we provided so many to Holman, Ford and teams backed by FORD

This car had a lot of Mill and Lathe work in it for special X style parts

Howie, after you explained that you have been a machinist for decades, I smiled because you know how long it takes to make one off, axles, snouts, Axle hubs that are broached, the size changes after head treat, the special brackets needed to adapt full blown big disc disc brakes, and imagine all of the chassis fabrication

This chassis, was a step forward, from a EDSEL heavy chassis.

What we did on those was just like a 60s stock car.  On a huge cast stell surface plate, we had fixtures for every tab, and every pick up point

So you would gusset some, lighten other parts, box others, like a arms, add a bunch of suspension travel, 3 shocks per front wheel, a DOM and cromoly cage. beefier trailing arms, longer travel springs, and the rest that you see,

Notice all of the halogen lights pointed down track?

This was a quiet set of tricks we also had.  Bad light could kill you, or get you tangled up in somebody elses mess.

The tricks there, were up to 10, hi power lights, pointed and aimed, to make about 1/2 mile ahead bright enough to maintain well over 100 MPH, up to about 150 MPH on long stretches,,,

Thanks for the question. I have a feeling that you and me would be fine pulling 12 hour shifts making race parts for FORD...

The later EDSELS had full tube chassis', made of Chromoly. Total weight was slashed to go even faster. This EDSEL was wicked fast and had some fast fast FE's,,,and I cn prove, in a court...lol  haha  no thanks, that I had hands on its key pieces....

And I can show you how to re do the engines, because I alone have our DYNO and BUILD sheet library. At home. Hidden below my FE Mustang, that Stroppe drove and liked a lot

fastest Mustang around, back then..LOL   Due to free FORD race parts !   LOL  Not one stolen piece !!  ha ha ha   

back to Doug

All is cool


Let's just be racers and engineers

Nice fastback

Next question please


See you cats next week please

Thanks Howie,,,,you are a stand up good man I see.....I will help you some day, some how

I get WD deals on a lot of stuff,,,free stuff too


we'll chat

You keep up the good worknow

Tenth tolerance man,,,,,sweatin the 0001s as always !
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 01:51:01 PM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

ScotiaFE

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2016, 12:52:48 PM »
Thanks for the question. I have a feeling that you and me would be fine pulling 12 hour shifts making race parts for FORD...
It's great to see you can still do a back shift. I gave that up long ago now.
I have a hard enough time out in the shed. :P
All the best Tom.

Apologizes to Paul for taking over his post.
Looking forward to seeing some video. :)

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2016, 01:53:40 PM »
Right back at ya Boss, see the amended above......tell DOUG all is cool,,,go buy a mess of booze and send me the bill or something  hahahaha

JAY,,,bless you for having such a steel trap mind,,,,and a stainless steel back bone, and drive....and that red hot candle that drives you to win....and push the envelope

Big news pending

Bigger big news on the prayer list

See ya

Yellow Truck

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2016, 07:13:13 PM »
Howie, not to worry. This has been entertaining. I'm reading up on the best procedure to start an engine for the first time. I have a few questions:
  • With a roller cam is the usual advise to let the engine run for 20 minutes at 2,000 RPM relevant?
  • I have primed the engine in the past week from the distributor, and I've turned it a few times with the starter but without spark plugs to cycle the water pump and oil, how critical is it to re-prime it before starting it (i.e. is it strongly recommended to pull the dizzy and turn the pump)?
  • I've read a suggestion to pre-set the advance by manually turning the engine to TDC, then advance it 13 degrees, then with the #1 plug in hand turn on the ignition and rotate the cap until it sparks the #1 plug - the idea is to get the advance close before we try to fire it.

Any other specific advise? I'm happy with the plug gaps (all at 0.040), fuel pressure, fuel level in the bowls, the jets are down two sizes to 76 in the front and 84 in the rear, and the battery is fully charged. We will let it run until it reaches full temp and go over it for leaks before setting the idle, and we have an O2 sensor for a preliminary check. Once we are happy with that we will run it around the block a couple of times before we put the hood on it. Oh yes, I will roll it out of the garage and have a water hose with pressure and 3 fire extinguishers on hand.
1969 F100 4WD (It ain't yellow anymore)
445 with BBM heads, Prison Break stroker kit, hydrualic roller cam, T&D rockers, Street Dominator Intake with QFT SS 830.

Paul.

jayb

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2016, 07:46:12 PM »
Roller cams do not require a break-in like a flat tappet cam, so you can start the engine and let it idle right away.  Over the course of the first hour or two of running, you should be varying the load on the engine somewhat, so running it up and down the RPM range while holding it at various speeds for a few minutes is a good idea.  Also, driving at various speeds in the different gears will help with the break-in.

Getting the timing set correctly is important because you want to have the engine fire right away.  I would recommend a timing light.  I would pull the plugs and spin the engine with the starter while watching the timing marks on the balancer with a timing light.  Adjust the distributor until you have 10-12 degrees while cranking.  Replace the plugs and the engine should fire right up when you go to start it.

As long as you've pre-oiled once I don't think you need to do that again.  Especially if you are spinning the engine to set the timing, you should see oil pressure on the gauge.  Once you've got that, you are safe to fire.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2016, 07:50:07 PM »
As far as setting initial, I've had good luck just centering up the rotor for #1 but I add more advance.... more like 15-20 degrees on the balancer.
I figure it'll crank easy enough with that cold and with no load too much advance won't hurt.

I've never tried Jay's method, it sounds legit, but I don't know that I'd need it.


Ohh and Tom, a "child board" is a smaller offshoot of a particular forum (there are several here on FE Power).
Your stories are interesting if the reader has the time to sift through the 98% in order to find the little 2% of a gem that resides in it.
Brevity is king my man..... use it.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 07:54:22 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

Yellow Truck

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2016, 09:07:32 PM »
Getting the timing set correctly is important because you want to have the engine fire right away.  I would recommend a timing light.  I would pull the plugs and spin the engine with the starter while watching the timing marks on the balancer with a timing light.  Adjust the distributor until you have 10-12 degrees while cranking.  Replace the plugs and the engine should fire right up when you go to start it.

That is a MUCH better suggestion. Disappointed that I didn't think of it.
1969 F100 4WD (It ain't yellow anymore)
445 with BBM heads, Prison Break stroker kit, hydrualic roller cam, T&D rockers, Street Dominator Intake with QFT SS 830.

Paul.

My427stang

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Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #71 on: June 18, 2016, 07:56:36 AM »
Howie, not to worry. This has been entertaining. I'm reading up on the best procedure to start an engine for the first time. I have a few questions:
  • With a roller cam is the usual advise to let the engine run for 20 minutes at 2,000 RPM relevant?
  • I have primed the engine in the past week from the distributor, and I've turned it a few times with the starter but without spark plugs to cycle the water pump and oil, how critical is it to re-prime it before starting it (i.e. is it strongly recommended to pull the dizzy and turn the pump)?
  • I've read a suggestion to pre-set the advance by manually turning the engine to TDC, then advance it 13 degrees, then with the #1 plug in hand turn on the ignition and rotate the cap until it sparks the #1 plug - the idea is to get the advance close before we try to fire it.

Any other specific advise? I'm happy with the plug gaps (all at 0.040), fuel pressure, fuel level in the bowls, the jets are down two sizes to 76 in the front and 84 in the rear, and the battery is fully charged. We will let it run until it reaches full temp and go over it for leaks before setting the idle, and we have an O2 sensor for a preliminary check. Once we are happy with that we will run it around the block a couple of times before we put the hood on it. Oh yes, I will roll it out of the garage and have a water hose with pressure and 3 fire extinguishers on hand.

If it was mine,

- Stop turning it over when it is sitting, especially with the starter.  At best, it doesn't help anything, at worst, you are wiping assembly lube off of things and not replacing it with oil because of the low starter RPM

- Set initial timing so the rotor points to the #1 plug at 20 degree mark.  Close enough to fire and then set the timing after you do more important things

- I would double check firing order before firing it, because if you screwed a wire pair up, you may chase timing settings because it's in your head, when its really a spark plug wire problem (just trying to forecast potential issues)

- I would fill float bowls through vents if you use a mechanical fuel pump.  Just makes things easier, if electric, just let it run before crank

- Initial timing should likely be HIGHER than required for first fire to keep headers cool, with no load it can be VERY high and not hurt a thing, so no worries

- No need to run in at 2000, just fire it, check for oil pressure immediately, then look for leaks, then let run at some mild rpm, 1000-ish  to 1500  and focus on cooling system especially if  you didn't drill the thermostat.  It will likely raise up and down, and then gulp  a bunch in as the thermostat opens.  Fill it about 2 inches from the top and put the cap on after that and watch for coolant leaks

- When that is done, idle it down, set initial timing, then adjust carb, then drive away !!!!


---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

  • Guest
Re: Setting the fuel pressure...
« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2016, 10:57:35 AM »
Here is an important one that we have done for decades.  The cooling system on your FORD is designed to function as the platform moves.  The break in has higher that normal friction, thus heat. The mean/average oil temperatures will elevate before they reach post break in equilibrium, The rings, pistons and cylinder walls will has break in friction as the parts burnish in to a form fit, imagine honing then steeling a hi carbon blade, knife, and ponder how the drag and friction diminishes as the edge is refined to perfection.

We are big on using at least one electric leaf blower, and often one of the big, 3 foot diameter caged electric fans, like you see in the front of the Dragster, Flopper and related Pro Pits for several reasons.

Moving significant air across the radiator helps the engine slowly come up to a safe oil temperature, and coolant temp, given normal ambient air temperatures...you know...55 to 70/80 Deg F

If we light during a very cold day, I attach a pre heater to the oil pan, plug it in, walk away and wait for the oil temp to register in the triple digits at least. Depends on the oil and class.  On a car with a blower, running 60 straight weight, before we make a run with straight 70 W, is wise usually

You do not have t spin your tappets, true, but I like more, not less, splash from the rods, flinging away well on the underside of the pistons to pull away heat, and, to bath the cylinder walls well, and, to flush away the micro fine particles, sheering off, microscopically, the fine edges of the honing job, the high spots of the pistons surface finish, the ring pack, the rod side surfaces and of course, and honing stone residues, AND, I hope to build up the post break in cylinder glaze.  This glaze, hardens to cause a nicer surface finish, that has less friction, and more seal potential.   Biggest thing for me is, cooling the pistons by drawing away the much higher temps inside the combustion chambers

As she runs in, I use a 2nd electric lawn blower, to wash cooler air across the heads and headers,,,,a minute on the left, a minute on the right, then kneel down, and run air across the oil pan, and bottom and sides of the block

This also helps keep the CO2 and exhaust gas smell moving back and away from the work space

Of course, have a crew guy, helper, sitting in the car, using hand signals, to watch the coolant temp, oil pressure, oil temp, charging system, amps, volts,,   1 guy can do this fine, you just run around, up front, inside, around, up down

Every few minutes, of course, walk out behind her, 10-20 feet, smell the exhaust, glad you have an O2 meter, but listen  for the compression balance.   Listen fr the pulses to be even. Listen for a nice even purr. If it sounds nasty, uneven, rough, or just, jagged?  We call it, chipped teeth-ish, I shut it off....slow...cool her down and check everything

We compression balance everything. Always have. To the tenth of a c.c. .   The pay off is the exhaust note, sound, and scope results. We scope stuff old school too. If all 8 pulses, and a cylinder balance test(post break in of course) is all even Steven...you get an 'Atta Boy'

Lots more, but I watch the vaccum,,,manifold vac....turn the idle up for splash, then I move it every 2-3 minutes.  Easy, just move the idle with your helper.  Give him hand signs. Finger up, means, a little more RPM. Finger down, less.  Finger waving a little up, then a little down,,,means, modulate the RPM

Many OEM re-builders, and race teams, modulate the RPM on break in, so does my gang.   In most settings.....the internal spray and splash pattern gets to change and wax then wane, if you rev her up a tad, down, then up and down. Harmonics and resonant frequencies are a very real aspect of an engine. Ring rotation is a designed in parameter. Modulating the RPM can coax the rings to migrate more than less, and sometimes induce valve rotation

FE's, truck style, and many flat tappet mills, had designed in Valve and lifter coefficients

Making the valve train full Drag, defeated some of this. For endurance racing FE's, for FORD, many victories were quietly helped by not defeating the durability design aspects of the OEM engineering.

And for the oil mod devotees, we would have lost a lot of endurance races had the oil, and it's ability to pull away valve, piston and chamber heat and coolant heat BTU's, been reduced so much. A lot of oil migrating across a head, takes away a lot of heat that robs power, and pushes key component temp higher, which we don't want.

Move air across it

DEFNITELY Bed in the clutch, just like we bed in brake shoes, or pads.  Light, cycled uses, is cheap insurance for a better heat treat, and higher finished rockwell hardness

Bed in, or heat cycling, brakes and clutches(organic) cures the adhesives, and, adds integrity to the friction faces, and, fits in the steel rotor, disc, drum, etc

Last thing

We usually have the car in the air, on a 4 post lift, finger lift, or jack stands, good ones, or on the cars lift stands(Rails and floppers, have the trick lifts with the long handles, they go over center)

If you idle her, then slide her in gear, slowly engage the clutch, drag the brakes a bit, disengage, drag the brakes until the wheels stop, this is also nice

Remember, if you are idling her, and the wheel speed gets up there, and the speedo is showing some MPH....be VERY light on the brakes because they will grab and catch with a light brake input.  Don't want to shock the car, with a lurch of the wheels stopping with a thud....well we don't

Please have a blast


Feel the valve covers by hand, hunt and feel for any leak any where, goes without saying

and heat cycle it to be nice to her.

ALSO, we have a VP race gas fuel room for the cars, 3 grades of gas in 55 Gallong drums, depending on the car. I send  a runner to get us 5 gallon jugs of the best pump premium too. CHEVRON, 76 and SO Cal Fuels because they sponsor the Pomona Track. I add around 2 tablespoons of Marvel Mystery Oil in 5 gallons for any break in.  We have added this top cylinder oil to hot rods, on pump gas, for 45 or more years. No valve seat recession issues, nice guide life, nicer ring pack life, and it seems to be a little help. Red can. Always have a oil squirt gun full of the red stuff too, nice general lube, light penetrates, smells good, doesn't hurt paint, etc

She will break in soon enough and then you can ask her to 'Pay the Rent"     and if she fought ya


You please go   'Beat on the brat'  (Ramones)  (Kids joke out here,,,never smacked any gal)

Nice work

In a few weeks, maybe please get us a video sample of you' Riding her hard, and puttin' her away wet'

Off to Pomona

Manana, rat a tat tat tat...Blown fuel testing, yes, on Dads day,,,,

Thanks and bless you all for being such fine FORD men and women
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 11:18:27 AM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »