breaking in cam 390 fe oil pressure

[cjshaker]

It ended up being the cam bearings where burnt up. He said it did not hurt the cam or any thing else. Hopefully get it back in a few days.

A complete engine tear-down, thorough cleaning, new oil pump, inspection of ALL parts, then reassembly....in a few days?
I think I'd be sure to have my nose in that one.

[Nightmist66]

Not trying to highjack a thread
But how do you kill the cam bearings without hurting the crank and rods in a non- sideoiler ? I only ask because I saw this happen recently to a 428, and yes the bearings were installed correctly. No reason they just looked as they stopped getting oil

Very possible. I have seen it first hand. Some blocks the oil groove is not machined center in the saddle. If the bearing is installed so it is centered in the saddle, it can block the oil feed hole in the bearing to the cam and the oil will still make its way to the crank/rods as it normally would around the back of the cam bearing.

Here is a pic of my block where you can see how far off center the annular groove was machined. I fixed it by using a small ball end carbide burr and creating a little channel under where I want the oil hole to end up:

[Phil Brown]

Not trying to highjack a thread
But how do you kill the cam bearings without hurting the crank and rods in a non- sideoiler ? I only ask because I saw this happen recently to a 428, and yes the bearings were installed correctly. No reason they just looked as they stopped getting oil

Very possible. I have seen it first hand. Some blocks the oil groove is not machined center in the saddle. If the bearing is installed so it is centered in the saddle, it can block the oil feed hole in the bearing to the cam and the oil will still make its way to the crank/rods as it normally would around the back of the cam bearing.

Here is a pic of my block where you can see how far off center the annular groove was machined. I fixed it by using a small ball end carbide burr and creating a little channel under where I want the oil hole to end up:

Interesting find on your block and that could answer a lot of questions, thanks for sharing

[Barry_R]

We have had some blocks where the cam bearings were amazingly off from the factory in every possible direction.  Had one (with signs of at least three apparent rebuilds...) where there was literally zero oil to the rear main - missing a drilling.  Had one where the rear cam tunnel bore was .020" off from the others - NOT .002" - .020" out of position! 

One thing I have decided (without documentation...) is that Ford must have used a single mandrel to install all five bearings at the same time, and used a semi-finished bearing with an undersized inside diameter.  Once the bearings were installed they must have broached the I.D. to the target dimension in a single subsequent operation.  It's literally the only way that these engines could have been built and run given the location variances we see.  The one without rear main oil probably failed on every owner and got tossed into a core pile waiting for the next victim...

We have a test cam for use in every block.  it is a core that was verified straight and with journal diameters to spec. Willy removed all the lobes on the lathe so we don't mark up the bearings during test fitting.  It's common for a cam bearing to need an occasional tweak to get a nice smooth fit, but once in a while we find an epic problem that needs fixing.  We usually end up using the larger O.D. bearing from the aftermarket block cam set (Durabond FP-01) as a repair part for the back four housing bores as needed.

[WConley]

We have had some blocks where the cam bearings were amazingly off from the factory in every possible direction.  Had one (with signs of at least three apparent rebuilds...) where there was literally zero oil to the rear main - missing a drilling.  Had one where the rear cam tunnel bore was .020" off from the others - NOT .002" - .020" out of position! 

One thing I have decided (without documentation...) is that Ford must have used a single mandrel to install all five bearings at the same time, and used a semi-finished bearing with an undersized inside diameter.  Once the bearings were installed they must have broached the I.D. to the target dimension in a single subsequent operation.  It's literally the only way that these engines could have been built and run given the location variances we see. 

Barry - Having done a stint as a foreman on the old school Cleveland 300-6 line, I would not be surprised at all to see that kind of operation.  The plants always did Band-Aid fixes to reduce scrap.  The cam boring equipment was probably worn out... 

There was never any budget to rehab the production machinery on older lines.  I give the old timers a lot of credit for keeping stuff running as well as they did.  I remember seeing guys stuffing many different grade size pistons into one engine.  You won't see that on the new design engines.

[C6AE]

From the old forum
https://www.fordfe.com/viewtopic.php?f=74182&t=92613&p=804776&hilit=%22cam+bearings%22#p804776

Camshaft bearings were installed as a final sequence at the end of the "block job". The "block job" was a very automated machining process that involved all rough and finish machining of raw FE block castings. This operation occupied the entire lower floor of the plant. The main conveyor system was about two miles long. There was an additional "chip drag" conveyor line that ran underneath the machine tools to carry away the chips from the various machining operations. The amount of chips generated filled two open railroad gondola cars each day. The machining centers were highly automated for the time and tended by very senior skilled machinists and armies of inspectors/engineers. Camshaft bearings were installed at five serial automated stations with the block positioned vertically on its rear face.
Each station had a hydraulic ram of different legnth and dedicated travel with a shouldered bushing driver sized to the bearing at its business end. The bearing was automatically loaded on the driver after its retraction to the "full up" position. When a block moved into position under the ram it extended, carried the bearing to position and pushed it exactly to place. Took about five seconds to install each bearing as the block was moved in sequence to each station. The block then moved upstairs for final assembly. The large camshaft plug was installed by an operator who used an impact pneumatic hammer that delivered a single blow to seat it after the camshaft was installed. Just before the camshaft was installed, an inspector used a Sheffield pneumatic gauge that looked like a camshaft with bearing journals only. This was installed in the bearing bores and pressurized. The air leakdown raised columns of mercury on the gauge console and this was a measure of the installed cam bearing bores to check proper bearing clearance for camshaft oiling.

Previous post, saving it for posterity...

JackWelch
Posts   105
Unread post  Nov 02, 2012 #32

So with all of the cam failures that people have, I'm wondering what happened back when these cars were new off of the line. When an engine was assembled at Ford back in the 60's, did they get a break in? Did they just fire them up and drive away? What was the process with a brand new 60's FE? How did they break in the cam/lifters? Was an engine fired before it was dropped into a chasis to verify operation? Did they even have engine failures?
Kind of curious to hear from some of the "more experienced" guys around here.
I'm a native of Dearborn, MI and grew up on the west side of town. All our neighbors were very senior Ford executives who were vey willing to provide summer empolyment opportunities for willing and interested neighbor kids. I was lucky enough to spend my college summers of 1965, 1967 and 1968 working the afternoon shift at the Dearborn Engine Plant as a "swing general assembler" replacement for permanent employees who took vacation time. Big gun management at the plant took special interest in the temporary summer college guys and saw to it that we moved around a lot to avoid boredom. On my first day we were greeted personally by none other than the plant manager, a crusty Scottsman named Guy Hill. Turns out he was a close friend of my neighbors who lived across the street, and they were fellow members of a Scottish charitable fraternal organization.


At that time the DEP ran two FE assembly lines on two ten hour shifts five days per week. The high senority employees worked the day shift and an occasional Saturday day shift only. There were never any Saturday afternoon assembly shifts. Minimum line speed was 62 engines/hr. That's 1240 FEs per shift or 2480 FEs PER DAY for the plant. The scale was staggering. When I had first toured the plant as a youth in '57 they were building "Y" blocks and had just completed construction of the second line for the "new Thunderbird engine" as the tour guide explained. By late '62 all product was FE/FT based. The Windsor small block had replaced the base "Y" block in passenger car applications.

Production mix for the day shift was more varied as the employees were of high senority, more stable and experienced. The higher performance lower volume FE variants and most FT production was handled by the day shift. All that was left for the afternoon shift was the production of endless 390 2V and 4V product. The major variation for these involved CA Thermactor components. There was the occasional 390 4-V GT and Q code 428 4V.

My first day assignment was on the amall sub-routine line that assembled rocker arm/shaft assemblies. There were seven of us sitting at a little circular conveyor line. My job was to bend the cotter pins at the ends of each completed assembly. The guy before me had already installed the end spring and flat washers and the keys. When the assembly passed in front of me all I had to do was use a special hand tool that fit over the end of the shaft and slightly twist it to give the exact slight bend of the cotter pin we have all encountered. Do the math: That's 2480 complete rocker arm assemblies for one shift and 4960 cotter pins bent for my day's work. I lasted three days on that job when my middle finger went numb and the regular guy came back. For the rest of that summer I worked in and around "hot test".

Every engine was run with gasoline under its own power for approximately 2 minutes to verify oil pressure and balance. I was part of a "move in" crew pair that installed the engine in the test cell and made water, starter, fuel, electrical and exhaust connections. Everything was very quick connect/disconnect. A starter was permanently mounted in the cut off remnants of a C-6 bellhousing which was suspended overhead by a spring loaded retraction cable. The unit was drawn down like a windowshade and attached to the rear of the block using only four bolts which had typical machine-tool type cranks to allow quick turning. Same for the flexible pipe exhaust manifold flange connections. All electrical connections were quick dedicated plug in attachments to the coil and starter. A fitting was screwed into the oil pressure sending port to allow connection of an analog gauge. After we finished our connections we signaled for an inspector and moved to the next cell to repeat the process. The inspector verified all connections and energized the electricity and fluid supplies then signaled for an operator. The operator then started the engine from the control panel and brought it to specified speed while two other inspectors monitored the instruments, verified balance, set the final ignition timing with a strobe light and signaled the operator to shut down. They stamped run and balance approval on the flat block boss located on the forward driver side just below the deck and summoned a "move out" crew pair. They disconnected the fluid and electrical supplies, starter and exhaust manifold conncetions and returned the engine to the overhead conveyor system for travel to final installation of valve covers. The engines had been hot tested with removable valve covers which had little handles welded to them and merely set in place to control oil splash and allow visual confirmation of oil supply.The "move in" crew job was better than the "move out" job because the engine was cool. The engine was still hot from running when arriving at the station where valve covers were installed. The valve covers were pre- assembled with gaskets stapled to them attached at the small tabs. Original gaskets used at the factory were coated with a type of thermally activated sealant which was silver in color. This sealant was activated by residual engine heat to prevent leaks. The sealing process continued after the engine was installed in a vehicle and then brougnt to temperture during vehicle operation. That's why original valve cover gaskets are such a bitch to remove.

I can rattle on about my other DEP experiences in another post. They include working on engines that failed initial hot test,radiator assembly (there was a radiator and gas tank annex to the DEP at that time), shipping dock loading, etc. DEP was quite a place.

[Bolted to Floor]

Those are great posts, thanks for keeping track and sharing. It’s my history lesson for the day.

[C6AE]

Those are great posts, thanks for keeping track and sharing. It’s my history lesson for the day.

I think cam bearings can be a weak link for a novice FE builder. There is a well regarded publication that suggests because of the groove in the block behind the bearing you can place the cam bearing feed hole anywhere. That is wrong. You can place the bearing feed hole slightly ahead of the oil feed to the mains, but not much, or they will be open to the clearance and be a significant pressure "leak". (The "hydro-dynamic wedge" is often exagerated for illustration purposes. How much of a "wedge" can you get with a .003" gap? Maybe double or triple that? Probably less than the diameter of the oil feed hole.)

I suspect there are more low oil pressure complaints with FE's than any other engine perhaps because of this mis-information. By example the "side oiler" cam bearings can only be installed with the "holes down" That is the only blueprint I have found. (Other than the "center oiler" front bearing which can only be installed only one way. I regard that as a typical Ford assembly clue, deliberately making correct assembly only one way that dates back to the Model T.

[390owner]

Got the 390 back. He rebuilt it again after a complete tear down. He installed some other kind of cam bearings. I broke it in with no issues. It is no running great. I am now ready for a road trip