FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 1966lanetp on October 02, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
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Hi, everyone. My name is Randy I’m new here, but have been reading your forum for a couple years. I just bought a 427so with tunnel port heads and 2x4 single plane manifold. It was a running engine until pulled and then sit for many years, I pulled it apart and here’s what I found...
Block J23 standard bore, .005 taper on 2 front bores, the rest were under .003
Crank C5ae 630 0 0 the bearings all looked good.
Rods C6AE-E polished std. bearings look good.
Pistons C8AX 6110A skirts show minor wear.
Heads C70E 609K look stock with a full “thumbprint “ no port work.
Intake C70E 94425A has a crappie weld on a bolt boss, otherwise looks stock.
I’m happy so far, but what do I do next?
I’ve been talking to Brent about options.
1. Build it back stock with new bearings, rings, cam, valve train etc.
2. Build a 482 with modern parts, hyd roller etc. shoot for 600ish HP.
3. Add ported tunnel port heads and manifold (around 650 to 700hp).
4. Sell it to someone who needs a vintage engine and start over?
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Does it really gain you anything to port tunnel port heads?
I vote number 1.
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Brent Lykins says 80 to 100 hp, it’s not just porting, but adding epoxy changes the velocity I think.
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If you're not needing or wanting a vintage, in period engine................OPTION #4!
If with no concern for truly "old stuff" of the period, buy "new stuff" for better durability and big horsepower intentions, it'll be cheaper in the end. ;)
Scott.
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They fit fine in '67 mustangs, stock specs ran in the 10.70's
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It’s going in a 66’ Fairlane, 4 speed, 9” Detroit locker, Caltracs, drag radials. It has a built 445 (425-450hp) in it now. I just want a 427so!
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I vote 3. Nothing cooler than an original TP using factory heads that have been messaged and cranking out good Hp. The intake looks cool to boot!
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They fit fine in '67 mustangs, stock specs ran in the 10.70's
That is pretty awesome looking!
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If you're not needing or wanting a vintage, in period engine................OPTION #4!
If with no concern for truly "old stuff" of the period, buy "new stuff" for better durability and big horsepower intentions, it'll be cheaper in the end. ;)
Scott.
Wanna buy it? Ha. I’ve been looking for a good 427 block for a while, kinda hard to find. I do like the idea of a Ford block in my Fairlane.
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Number 3 gets my vote.
Nothing cooler than old iron cranking out big HP
Listen to Brent he won't steer you wrong.
garyv
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Number 3 gets my vote.
Nothing cooler than old iron cranking out big HP
Listen to Brent he won't steer you wrong.
garyv
Thanks, that’s the way I’m leaning, it’ll look at home in the old Fairlane.
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If you're not needing or wanting a vintage, in period engine................OPTION #4!
If with no concern for truly "old stuff" of the period, buy "new stuff" for better durability and big horsepower intentions, it'll be cheaper in the end. ;)
Scott.
Wanna buy it? Ha. I’ve been looking for a good 427 block for a while, kinda hard to find. I do like the idea of a Ford block in my Fairlane.
NA, ...... probably have eight or ten (?) including even "new-in-the-box" still left over waiting for builds. We quit buying them a long time ago, decided it is better to let the customers find and invest in something, bring it to us, and then I'm not at a loss when it turns out to be junk! Which happens all to often these days with this stuff. ;)
And again, if one wants a "period" engine in their '66 Fairlane, then certainly build it! And if so, (remember you asked!) then OPTION #1, with perhaps an end result of a performance level of something greater than the original, but just don't try and be to crazy in the effort (OPTION # 2 & #3) and just waste what might be an example of an ever dwindling supply of "good" originals.
I guess I just disapprove of wasting something for naught (including ones' budget), as if pushed, the old originals just aren't that tough, and if your going for OPTION #2 and/or #3 with vigor, its' not going to be anything like an original, so why worry about the presents or not of FOMOCO being cast in the otherwise weak block for the potential power level intention? ???
Scott.
P.S. Oh, and I already have a '67 "R" code Fairlane w/ the 427M.R.; and we raced (street & track) a '70 Shelby GT500 with a 461 cu. in. Tunnel-Port, and that's enough. 8)
And if you wish assistance with your effort we are very capable in the arena of the Ford FE's (for example we currently have two 390's +/-, two 428's, & three 427's of customer builds in the shop now and it ain't like these are first ones we ever saw!). :)
Scott.
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Randy, where are you from?
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If you're not needing or wanting a vintage, in period engine................OPTION #4!
If with no concern for truly "old stuff" of the period, buy "new stuff" for better durability and big horsepower intentions, it'll be cheaper in the end. ;)
Scott.
Wanna buy it? Ha. I’ve been looking for a good 427 block for a while, kinda hard to find. I do like the idea of a Ford block in my Fairlane.
NA, ...... probably have eight or ten (?) including even "new-in-the-box" still left over waiting for builds. We quit buying them a long time ago, decided it is better to let the customers find and invest in something, bring it to us, and then I'm not at a loss when it turns out to be junk! Which happens all to often these days with this stuff. ;)
And again, if one wants a "period" engine in their '66 Fairlane, then certainly build it! And if so, (remember you asked!) then OPTION #1, with perhaps an end result of a performance level of something greater than the original, but just don't try and be to crazy in the effort (OPTION # 2 & #3) and just waste what might be an example of an ever dwindling supply of "good" originals.
I guess I just disapprove of wasting something for naught (including ones' budget), as if pushed, the old originals just aren't that tough, and if your going for OPTION #2 and/or #3 with vigor, its' not going to be anything like an original, so why worry about the presents or not of FOMOCO being cast in the otherwise weak block for the potential power level intention? ???
Scott.
P.S. Oh, and I already have a '67 "R" code Fairlane w/ the 427M.R.; and we raced (street & track) a '70 Shelby GT500 with a 461 cu. in. Tunnel-Port, and that's enough. 8)
And if you wish assistance with your effort we are very capable in the arena of the Ford FE's (for example we currently have two 390's +/-, two 428's, & three 427's of customer builds in the shop now and it ain't like these are first ones we ever saw!). :)
Scott.
Thanks, you make some good points. Nothing has been pressure tested yet, but the apparent condition suggests it could be built back at least with the crankshaft, heads and manifold. Would you trust the rods? New valve train, cam, lifters, etc. what apr. hp with something like that? Thanks
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Randy, where are you from?
Oklahoma
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To be fair here, Randy and I have been talking for at least 2-3 months about this build and his initial horsepower requirements started out in the 700-800 hp range. After discussing it with him and pointing out the relationships between factory blocks, displacement, tunnel port head intake port sizes, rear end gears, and the like, we approached it with a 482 build and around 600 hp. I also added that if he really felt he needed the horsepower, the heads and intake could be modified and it would certainly help the horsepower, adding about 80-100 from past experiences.
I'm certainly not against using the factory crankshaft but we are back at looking at horsepower goals and streetability. Under no circumstances would I reuse those factory rods though, no matter how much they've been polished or loved on.
If you're curious as to how much horsepower a 427 would make in streetable trim, a 465 will make about 600 with a solid camshaft and unported heads/intake, going up to 7000 rpm. You're looking at around 525-550 hp with the 427 depending on the compression ratio and rpm range.
I do believe that there can be too many experts in the room at one time, so I'll leave this post and make my way back out to the shop.
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Does it really gain you anything to port tunnel port heads?
I vote number 1.
I think it's tricky to get more intake port flow without killing velocity, but the exhaust ports on the tunnel port heads are pretty awful. With some cautious porting on the exhaust, we were able to get them flowing a little bit better than as-cast Edelbrocks.
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Does it really gain you anything to port tunnel port heads?
I vote number 1.
I think it's tricky to get more intake port flow without killing velocity, but the exhaust ports on the tunnel port heads are pretty awful. With some cautious porting on the exhaust, we were able to get them flowing a little bit better than as-cast Edelbrocks.
The exhaust ports do stink, but they work. The intake ports benefit from raising the floors. It decreases the port volume (in the 60's, bigger was better), increases flow, and increases velocity. Most of the TP heads that we have ported flow around 380 cfm with a smaller port than factory.
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Great to have you here.
I've built and worked on alot of rides and that's a tough question. LOL it really is, sounds like your off to a good start. To find the best answer you need to start with,
First: What really is your honest intentions with your ride. Street, Street/strip, road course or all out hard racing. Without us knowing that in some depth no one can tell you whats best to do with what you have, or open opinions also can be called to many cooks in the kitchen and different brain waves will just throw you off track of your goals.
Second: You have talked to Bret in depth apparently so he knows and understands whats needed and would never steer anyone wrong. He's one of the top of the shrinking number of fe builders.
Third: Write down on paper if need be with a game plan and don't steer off coarse of it. YES in asking for advice and how-to's and be very specific. There's so many knowledgeable people here that live and breathe fe and will very happy to help. That's whats great about this site over others.
Forth: You will enjoy your finished product or ride. Hard work pays.
That's what I learned after flip flopping around my first build 30 years ago and the best answer i got for now. Mike
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I have same project, old 427 tunnel port, bought at auction. The block was beat, (6 sleeves) and I decided to get a BBM block. My reason for keeping it a tunnel port is nostalgia, the engine came from a sportsman roundy-round car, that I remembered and a driver ( Maynard Troyer). If I wasn't tied to the nostalgia, I would build a 427/482 with Blair's pro-ports. A nice project, you have! Good luck!
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sell it. it belongs in a cobra. build a max effort bear block.
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Great to have you here.
I've built and worked on alot of rides and that's a tough question. LOL it really is, sounds like your off to a good start. To find the best answer you need to start with,
First: What really is your honest intentions with your ride. Street, Street/strip, road course or all out hard racing. Without us knowing that in some depth no one can tell you whats best to do with what you have, or open opinions also can be called to many cooks in the kitchen and different brain waves will just throw you off track of your goals.
Second: You have talked to Bret in depth apparently so he knows and understands whats needed and would never steer anyone wrong. He's one of the top of the shrinking number of fe builders.
Third: Write down on paper if need be with a game plan and don't steer off coarse of it. YES in asking for advice and how-to's and be very specific. There's so many knowledgeable people here that live and breathe fe and will very happy to help. That's whats great about this site over others.
Forth: You will enjoy your finished product or ride. Hard work pays.
That's what I learned after flip flopping around my first build 30 years ago and the best answer i got for now. Mike
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Basically my Fairlane is a toy. It’s a pretty nice mid price car, it has no A/C, heater, PS, Power brakes nor radio. It gets driven about 100 to 150 miles a year so I don’t mind buying racing fuel if needed. I may go to the track (drag) a few times, but I don’t want to build a race car.
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The exhaust ports do stink, but they work. The intake ports benefit from raising the floors. It decreases the port volume (in the 60's, bigger was better), increases flow, and increases velocity. Most of the TP heads that we have ported flow around 380 cfm with a smaller port than factory.
What work is going to be done with the factory TP intake manifold?
The cylinder head may flow 380 cfm - but what happens when intake is attached?
The combination of cylinder head and intake manifold are what makes power - or not.
I am sure Brent has flowed the TP head (ported) with the intake.
Hopefully he can shed some light on the question.
I have forever wondered how much the TP manifold affects the cylinder head - never having had the opportunity to flow a TP combo.
Cheers
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The same work has to be done to the intake....floors raised, plenums shaped, etc. Obviously the intake manifold loses some flow due to the pushrod tubes being in the way, but the combinations are still very stout.
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Basically my Fairlane is a toy. It’s a pretty nice mid price car, it has no A/C, heater, PS, Power brakes nor radio. It gets driven about 100 to 150 miles a year so I don’t mind buying racing fuel if needed. I may go to the track (drag) a few times, but I don’t want to build a race car.
Given the description of the car and its use I'd say do #1 and just make upgrades for durability like good valves, valvetrain, a good set of rods, etc... Value here seems to be it is a 427 SO tunnel port so enjoy the vintage experience.
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In 1973 to 1975 my "only car" was a 67 Mustang fastback, 427 Tunnelport, two matched HM prepped carbs, HM 882 grind cam and dykes ring pistons. Heads and intake were unmolested.
If you can stand very bad street manners, keep it. Mine was a slug below 3500 and herky jerky around town. 3500 rpm to 7300 it was a bad ash ride.
Was my favorite.
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Given the description of the car and its use I'd say do #1 and just make upgrades for durability like good valves, valvetrain, a good set of rods, etc... Value here seems to be it is a 427 SO tunnel port so enjoy the vintage experience.
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Well I know I’m going with new rods and pistons so I see no reason not to stroke it and get a new crank also. I’ll sell the original rotating assembly to someone who wants vintage ford factory HP parts. A stroked engine should help with the heads, I’ve been told. Thanks for your advice.
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In 1973 to 1975 my "only car" was a 67 Mustang fastback, 427 Tunnelport, two matched HM prepped carbs, HM 882 grind cam and dykes ring pistons. Heads and intake were unmolested.
If you can stand very bad street manners, keep it. Mine was a slug below 3500 and herky jerky around town. 3500 rpm to 7300 it was a bad ash ride.
Was my favorite.
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That sounds like a great ride, was it a 4 speed? What gears? Do you think lower gears would’ve helped? Thanks
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In 1973 to 1975 my "only car" was a 67 Mustang fastback, 427 Tunnelport, two matched HM prepped carbs, HM 882 grind cam and dykes ring pistons. Heads and intake were unmolested.
If you can stand very bad street manners, keep it. Mine was a slug below 3500 and herky jerky around town. 3500 rpm to 7300 it was a bad ash ride.
Was my favorite.
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That sounds like a great ride, was it a 4 speed? What gears? Do you think lower gears would’ve helped? Thanks
I bet it would help! 90 degrees of overlap is stout with the HM Lemans cam. Fun, but better cams out there today to keep that intake moving
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Given the description of the car and its use I'd say do #1 and just make upgrades for durability like good valves, valvetrain, a good set of rods, etc... Value here seems to be it is a 427 SO tunnel port so enjoy the vintage experience.
Well I know I’m going with new rods and pistons so I see no reason not to stroke it and get a new crank also. I’ll sell the original rotating assembly to someone who wants vintage ford factory HP parts. A stroked engine should help with the heads, I’ve been told. Thanks for your advice.
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I am trying to buy My old one back, is had a little low end but not much but it was like a two stroke when it hit the RPM it liked away you went, I would stroke it a lot I think that is what would help it a lot, and play with the heads and intake, if I were You I would have Bret or Blair do it they have a lot of experience. Leny Mason
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"That sounds like a great ride, was it a 4 speed? What gears? Do you think lower gears would’ve helped? Thanks"
Big in top loader, Hurst shifter. 3.25 gear, I drove 21 miles one way to work, AND couldn't afford two chunks.
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"That sounds like a great ride, was it a 4 speed? What gears? Do you think lower gears would’ve helped? Thanks"
Big in top loader, Hurst shifter. 3.25 gear, I drove 21 miles one way to work, AND couldn't afford two chunks.
I understand that! In 1971 I bought my first car a 68’ Camaro (20,000 miles on it for $1200) and then spent all my money and time modifying it for the next 2 years.
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Thanks everyone for the good advice. I have my engine crated and am shipping it to Brent tomorrow.If everything checks out ok, we’ll go from there.
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That will be a good choice I think, He has been great every time I have dealt with Him.
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Hi, everyone. My name is Randy I’m new here, but have been reading your forum for a couple years. I just bought a 427so with tunnel port heads and 2x4 single plane manifold. It was a running engine until pulled and then sit for many years, I pulled it apart and here’s what I found...
Block J23 standard bore, .005 taper on 2 front bores, the rest were under .003
Crank C5ae 630 0 0 the bearings all looked good.
Rods C6AE-E polished std. bearings look good.
Pistons C8AX 6110A skirts show minor wear.
Heads C70E 609K look stock with a full “thumbprint “ no port work.
Intake C70E 94425A has a crappie weld on a bolt boss, otherwise looks stock.
I’m happy so far, but what do I do next?
I’ve been talking to Brent about options.
1. Build it back stock with new bearings, rings, cam, valve train etc.
2. Build a 482 with modern parts, hyd roller etc. shoot for 600ish HP.
3. Add ported tunnel port heads and manifold (around 650 to 700hp).
4. Sell it to someone who needs a vintage engine and start over?
-
In 1973 to 1975 my "only car" was a 67 Mustang fastback, 427 Tunnelport, two matched HM prepped carbs, HM 882 grind cam and dykes ring pistons. Heads and intake were unmolested.
If you can stand very bad street manners, keep it. Mine was a slug below 3500 and herky jerky around town. 3500 rpm to 7300 it was a bad ash ride.
Was my favorite.
During the '67 season, Brother Lon and I did some fairly serious work on his '67 Mustang. The 390 that came in the car was swapped for a factory, over-the-counter, 427 short block into which we placed a C8AX-D cam topped off with a set of spare TP heads that had been sourced from the LeMans testing program. We also used the dual-plane 2-4s manifold and the pair of 652 center-squirters that came as part of the top-end set-up. The C6 was gone through with all the best clutch parts and the governor had the valve lightened to where it had an automatic 6200 shift point with the vacuum shut off. We used a quarter-turn valve in the line to do so. Foot-brake stall in the converter was right at 3000, and the rear-end had a 4.44 DL in it. It buzzed pretty good at freeway speeds but was just the ticket around town.
Aside from having to be careful not to flood it on starting, and remembering to put your foot firmly on the brake pedal before shifting into 'Drive', it was easy to get around with. It was Lon's only car that summer.
KS